David1819 - forensic breakthrough claim

[Jane]

Well it all seems to be done and dusted then, and Jeremy will get off on a technicality. However those who are well-informed on the case should just mention that any irregularity with the silencer evidence does not make him innocent.

Steve, I wonder just how many will think it appropriate that a man convicted of murdering 5 members of his family can be released on a technicality. If it was considered inappropriate for him to have downgraded prison status, I fail to see how it can be considered appropriate to release him. This is more about satisfying egos than getting at the truth.

[David1819]

As can be seen from the posts in this thread, david1819 has claimed to have unearthed new evidence, of a forensic nature, which supports the defence case.  As david1819 has explained he sent details initially to Andrew Hunter, with a view to the material being reviewed by Jeremy Bamber's legal team.

There have been claims of an imminent breakthrough since the rejection of the last application to the CCRC and the subsequent  Judicial Review, but understandably there has been increasing scepticism in the absence of any detailed information about this.

In view some of the posts above, understandable in the circumstances, casting doubt on david1819's claim, he contacted me and asked if I would be prepared to review the material he had prepared, in confidence, and give him my opinion of it.  I agreed and received the material, reviewed it and gave david1819 my assessment.  david1819 then agreed that I could post my overall opinion of his work, without at this stage disclosing the details.  I am happy to do that and I agree with david1819's firm view, backed by the advice of Andrew Hunter, that Jeremy Bamber's legal team should review it and it should only be made public subject to their approval.

The material sent to me by david1819 is in the form of a report, which includes images and diagrams as well as text.  It is well written and well presented.  It analyses an important part of the evidence in the case, using methods not applied previously.  Although he accepts that he is not an expert in the relevant field, he has researched published works by experts in the field, quoting relevant extracts in support of his conclusions.  He has also studied relevant photographs and made calculations and measurements using techniques which to me seem appropriate.

david1819's conclusions support the defence case on this issue and specifically counter conclusions reached on this by the Court of Appeal in the 2002 appeal.

I am not an expert in the field involved and clearly for this to be presented to the CCRC as part of new submissions david1819's report and conclusions would have to be reviewed and validated by a suitably qualified expert.  However, I can see no reason to doubt the conclusions reached and have given david1819 my view in more detail.

If the report is validated the question is whether it could form the basis for the CCRC to refer the case.  For various reasons, hard to explain without giving more information than I am able to here, I believe it does satisfy the requirement that it is new evidence, not available at trial.  The key question is whether it is on its own sufficient to enable the convictions to be overturned.  I am very cautious about this as I believe the CCRC have now set a very high bar in this case.  Certainly this would form a valid ground of appeal, but ideally it should be joined with other grounds.  I am no longer in the loop as far as Jeremy Bamber's legal team are concerned, and have not been since Simon McKay ceased acting, but I do know of grounds not included in previous submissions which would have been included had the CCRC referred the case to the Court of Appeal on the last application.   I also understand that other work has been undertaken or is contemplated which may lead to additional grounds, but I have very limited knowledge of this.

I am sorry not to be able to give more detail but I hope members will understand why this is not possible  at this stage.  I will say however that david1819 was genuine in his claim to have discovered something new and important and that he has approached this in a serious and careful way.

         

Thank you Neil, Much appreciated 

[Steve_uk]

Steve, I wonder just how many will think it appropriate that a man convicted of murdering 5 members of his family can be released on a technicality. If it was considered inappropriate for him to have downgraded prison status, I fail to see how it can be considered appropriate to release him. This is more about satisfying egos than getting at the truth.

And it won't bring any of the victims back.

[susan]

David hello

Good Luck with your find it is great you have NGB posting can't wait to see what happens I had an idea something was in the wind but no idea what.

[JackiePreece]

Steve, I wonder just how many will think it appropriate that a man convicted of murdering 5 members of his family can be released on a technicality. If it was considered inappropriate for him to have downgraded prison status, I fail to see how it can be considered appropriate to release him. This is more about satisfying egos than getting at the truth.

Why are you giving an opinion when you are not privy to the evidence that David has shared with Ngb

I have been disgusted by the ridicule David has been subjected to and I admire the way he has dealt with it

Jane when will you learn your lesson

I doubt very much that David or Ngb would want Jeremy cleared on a technicality if they thought Jeremy had shot two children in the head

As I said to Lookout recently trust Ngb

[David1819]

The truth will come out at the end of the day, irrespective of whom it casts in a poor light...

Indeed, and all those who have been criticizing your efforts Mike wont have the final laugh. 

[Adam]

There is no forensic breakthrough.

David sitting at home on his computer will not uncover anything Bamber, Bamber's lawyers and expensive experts would not have uncovered in 30 years. 

Sending documents to Andrew Hunter won't do anything. He hasn't come out to play for years. And won't now.

There is nothing stopping this being annonced now. Bamber and the CT and people like Mike discuss everything under the sun. Both pre and post appeal.

David giving it to a fellow supporter in order to get a diplomatic endorsement on here,  smacks of cowadice and is an underhand way to give the flagging campaign a boost after Trudies terrible vlogs.

NGB's diplomatic endorsement does give David slightly more gravitas in comparison to the other supporters on here.

[Steve_uk]

I have been disgusted by the ridicule David has been subjected to

Nobody is ridiculing David. This is far too serious a matter.

[guest154]

Firstly, I will say that I have always got along with David - and that isn't hyperbole like others who are now sucking up to him, when he wouldn't be given the time of day in the past.

I think a lot can be read into NGB's post - although he believe that David may have found something new/interesting. It likely will not get to or past the CCRC.

Let's not forget the paint evidence was apparently new, the scratch marks was apparently new, the burn evidence was apparently new. I believe the people invovled in this believed what they were saying was not only genuine but damaging to the prosecution and enough to seal a successful CCRC submission, but it wasn't.

Although I believe David is genuine I don't think that anything he has found will affect the case - no forensic testing has been carried out on what David has found - so I think "Forensice breakthrough" is a little strong.

Jeremy Bamber isn't getting out of prison. We will still be here talking about this next year. These claims have been made for years and years and the people  who have been making them have been genuine people - as if David - but nothing short of proving SHEILA guilty gets Jeremy to or past the CCRC.

What I will say to David, if is that you obviously believe in what you have found and that you are going the perfect way about - that's admirable. I hope deep down that you're right, because  I would mus trather this be the case of a mentally ill mother guilty that a greedy son wiping out his family for financial gain - but you're now going to have snakes contact you with their niceness, just remember who people are and the reasons for their contact.

[Steve_uk]

Indeed, and all those who have been criticizing your efforts Mike wont have the final laugh. 

Nobody is laughing either.

[guest154]

To my knowledge, ngb has NEVER said, on forum that he believes in Jeremy's innocence and if this finding has anything to do with the silencer, it WILL be a technicality -because he can still be guilty without it- and what David and ngb might want will have nothing to do with it. And unless David has sought fit to confide in you, why are you commenting? I'll learn my lesson the day after you learn yours but from your pasts behaviours I don't think we should hold our breath.

I'd be very shocked if David has shared any of his findings with JackiePreece.

[Jane]

Firstly, I will say that I have always got along with David - and that isn't hyperbole like others who are now sucking up to him, when he wouldn't be given the time of day in the past.

I think a lot can be read into NGB's post - although he believe that David may have found something new/interesting. It likely will not get to or past the CCRC.

Let's not forget the paint evidence was apparently new, the scratch marks was apparently new, the burn evidence was apparently new. I believe the people invovled in this believed what they were saying was not only genuine but damaging to the prosecution and enough to seal a successful CCRC submission, but it wasn't.

Although I believe David is genuine I don't think that anything he has found will affect the case - no forensic testing has been carried out on what David has found - so I think "Forensice breakthrough" is a little strong.

Jeremy Bamber isn't getting out of prison. We will still be here talking about this next year. These claims have been made for years and years and the people  who have been making them have been genuine people - as if David - but nothing short of proving SHEILA guilty gets Jeremy to or past the CCRC.

What I will say to David, if is that you obviously believe in what you have found and that you are going the perfect way about - that's admirable. I hope deep down that you're right, because  I would mus trather this be the case of a mentally ill mother guilty that a greedy son wiping out his family for financial gain - but you're now going to have snakes contact you with their niceness, just remember who people are and the reasons for their contact.

BRILLIANTLY eloquent post, Mat.

[Jane]

Indeed, and all those who have been criticizing your efforts Mike wont have the final laugh. 

I seem to think you may have done your own share of it, in the past, David, OR are you going to confirm that you believe everything Mike has said here to be the truth.

[JackiePreece]

To my knowledge, ngb has NEVER said, on forum that he believes in Jeremy's innocence and if this finding has anything to do with the silencer, it WILL be a technicality -because he can still be guilty without it- and what David and ngb might want will have nothing to do with it. And unless David has sought fit to confide in you, why are you commenting? I'll learn my lesson the day after you learn yours but from your pasts behaviours I don't think we should hold our breath.

Let's get this clear, you think Ngb has helped Jeremy even though he may believe Jeremy is guilty?

[Jane]

Let's get this clear, you think Ngb has helped Jeremy even though he may believe Jeremy is guilty?

Can you point me to a post from ngb where he categorically states that he believes Jeremy is innocent?