Author Topic: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test_2  (Read 28935 times)

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Offline Caroline

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test_2
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2016, 07:10:PM »
This has been mentioned a few times in the press and from former prisoners that at Full Sutton he had special privileges and better treatment from staff. I also read somewhere it was one of the reasons he got attacked.

He did get attacked because the other prisoners think he has 'special privileges' but as he maintains his innocence, he is allowed access to the media etc. I don't believe the staff treat him any better or worse than anyone else though.
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Offline Jane

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test_2
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2016, 07:13:PM »
This has been mentioned a few times in the press and from former prisoners that at Full Sutton he had special privileges and better treatment from staff. I also read somewhere it was one of the reasons he got attacked.


We all know how the press like to devour these delicious pieces of goss., especially when they're short of copy.

Offline notsure

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test_2
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2016, 07:15:PM »
What kind of person? A psychopath!  ;)
[/quote

exactly, so i am pretty sure he would have been found to ge one by now

Offline David1819

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test_2
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2016, 07:18:PM »
What type of person can claim thier innocence for 30 years without showing signs of physcopathy or some kind of dissorder- he would need to be extremely clever to do that

You would also need to be extremely clever to execute a mass murder and engineer it in such a way that it convincingly appears like a psychotic rampage murder/suicide.

Offline notsure

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test_2
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2016, 07:20:PM »
The PCL-R test is only as good as the tester and it is open to their biases. For instance, I might think Jeremy was being glib, you may not. The other tests are to assess 'dangerousness' - all prisoners have them, nothing to do with testing for psychopathy.

I think he's guilty and to kill 5 people (including to innocent 6 year old children), not have any guilt or remorse - you have to be a psychopath. I used to think he was innocent so have looked at this from both sides of the fence.

I know uou have caroline and i get it i really do. I know you uave corresponded with him so have a much better understanding of his personality than i do, but look at it from my perspective. Your convinced hes a physcopath but have no proof to give me  to accept your opinion.

Offline Jane

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test_2
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2016, 07:27:PM »
You would also need to be extremely clever to execute a mass murder and engineer it in such a way that it convincingly appears like a psychotic rampage murder/suicide.


But it wasn't just staged and left. He followed it up, too. The alleged phonecall in which he passed on words his father had allegedly told him, laying the blame at Sheila's feet. He then stood outside with them at WHF adding his own story of her mental history and how she'd previously attempted suicide. They say exactly what he'd planned for them to see. What he wasn't able to do was get into the emotions of those he'd killed. He didn't understand that a mother would rather die with her children than with her mother.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test_2
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2016, 07:35:PM »
I know uou have caroline and i get it i really do. I know you uave corresponded with him so have a much better understanding of his personality than i do, but look at it from my perspective. Your convinced hes a physcopath but have no proof to give me  to accept your opinion.

I'm not asking you to accept my opinion - simply stating it. You must follow your own thoughts. Anyway, here is the link to a government document that explains the prisoners annual assessment. It's explained in section 5 - I'll also post the relevant section below.


https://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/offenders/psipso/psi-2011/psi-40-2011-categorisation-adult-males.doc

SECTION 5:  RECATEGORISATION AND ALLOCATION

5.1      The purpose of the recategorisation process is to determine whether, and to what extent, there has been a clear change in the risks a prisoner presented at his last review and to ensure that he continues to be held in the most appropriate conditions of security. 
   Allocation often follows immediately after recategorisation but is a separate process, the purpose of which is to assign the prisoner to a suitably secure establishment which best meets his needs insofar as pressures on the estate allow.   
 
5.2    Risk levels may increase or decrease depending on individual circumstances and the prisoner’s security category must reflect this. Due account should be taken of any intelligence, held either within the prison or received from a Law Enforcement Agency (LEA), that indicates the prisoner is involved in ongoing serious criminal activity.

5.3 Recategorisation to a lower security category is not an automatic progression or right but must be based on clear evidence of reduction in previously identified risk levels to a level that is manageable in an establishment of the lower category.

In reviewing a prisoner’s security category it is essential to look at the reasons why, at his last review, the prisoner was placed in the current security category. Only then is it possible to determine whether, and to what extent, circumstances may have changed to warrant a change in category.  It is also important to consider the particular characteristics of the estate for which the prisoner is being assessed, taking account of physical security, supervision levels and regime availability. This is particularly important when considering whether to recategorise a prisoner to Category D, Because of the particular characteristics of the open estate, recategorisation to Category D must be based on the prisoner’s proven trustworthiness and manageable risks.
    
5.4   Two years is considered to be the maximum time a prisoner should spend in open
            conditions.  However, assessment of a prisoner’s individual risks and needs may support
            earlier recategorisation to D. Such cases must have the reasons for their categorisation
            fully documented and confirmed in writing by the Governing Governor.

5.5      Timing of recategorisation reviews

All prisoners other than those already categorised as Category D, those sentenced to less than 12 months, and ISPs (to whom PSI 36/2010 PSO 4700 Chapter 4 Serving the Indeterminate Sentence applies) must have their security reviewed at regular prescribed intervals

Prisoners serving indeterminate sentences will be subject to Sentence Planning and Review meetings, which must be held at least every 12 months, and in line with the OM III manual.  The ISP’s security category should be considered at each meeting.  (See PSO 4700 Chapter 4).

The following have a six monthly review

Prisoners serving a determinate sentence of 12 months or more but less than 4 years

Extended Sentence for Public Protection (EPP) prisoners with a custodial term of less than four years

Prisoners in the last 24 months of their sentence

The following have an annual review

Determinate sentence prisoners with a sentence of 4 years or more

EPP prisoners with a custodial term of four years or more

5.6       Recalled prisoners must be reviewed within 4 working days of the Parole Board or Justice    Secretary making a decision in their case.

5.7     Prisoners in the open estate, and Category D prisoners held in the closed estate, will be    reviewed only if there is a change in their circumstances; their behaviour gives cause for    concern or when new information or intelligence suggests an increase in risk levels.  For    ISPs, see PSI 36/2010 PSO 4700 Chapter 4, Serving the Indeterminate Sentence.

5.8       A prisoner’s recategorisation review must not be withheld or delayed to await the outcome of a parole hearing. To do so could be construed as unfairly jeopardising the prisoner’s chances of parole success. The review should take place at the normal time although it will normally be inappropriate to transfer the prisoner until the parole dossier is completed unless there is an urgent need to transfer the prisoner to conditions of higher security.

5.9      In addition to the prescribed timetable of reviews, prisoners may have their security category reviewed whenever there has been a significant change in their circumstances or behaviour which impacts on the level of security required. Changes might include those listed below, although other circumstances might also arise:

there is a change in circumstances or behaviour which indicates an urgent threat to prison security or the good order of the establishment

intelligence indicating involvement in ongoing serious criminality

further charges of a serious nature indicate that the prisoner requires a higher level of security

a notice of deportation is served   

a Confiscation Order is enforced

a Serious Crime Prevention Order (SCPO) is imposed

new or additional information comes to light. For example, during completion or updating the OASys assessment which highlights additional risk factors

there is cause for concern that the current categorisation decision is unsound. (There must be corroborative evidence to support that concern)
      
the prisoner has completed a successful ROTL

serious ROTL failure

a sentence/tariff is reduced on appeal

a key piece of offending behaviour work is completed, or there has been a successful detoxification or opiate substitute maintenance regime

a prisoner is recalled to custody

a prisoner is returned to prison custody from a Special Hospital.

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Offline Caroline

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test_2
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2016, 07:36:PM »
This document explains risk management specifically for CAT A prisoners.

https://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/offenders/psipso/psi-2013/psi-05-2013-categ-mgt-potential-cat-a.doc
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Offline Stephanie

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test_2
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2016, 07:56:PM »
I'm not asking you to accept my opinion - simply stating it. You must follow your own thoughts. Anyway, here is the link to a government document that explains the prisoners annual assessment. It's explained in section 5 - I'll also post the relevant section below.


https://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/offenders/psipso/psi-2011/psi-40-2011-categorisation-adult-males.doc

SECTION 5:  RECATEGORISATION AND ALLOCATION

5.1      The purpose of the recategorisation process is to determine whether, and to what extent, there has been a clear change in the risks a prisoner presented at his last review and to ensure that he continues to be held in the most appropriate conditions of security. 
   Allocation often follows immediately after recategorisation but is a separate process, the purpose of which is to assign the prisoner to a suitably secure establishment which best meets his needs insofar as pressures on the estate allow.   
 
5.2    Risk levels may increase or decrease depending on individual circumstances and the prisoner’s security category must reflect this. Due account should be taken of any intelligence, held either within the prison or received from a Law Enforcement Agency (LEA), that indicates the prisoner is involved in ongoing serious criminal activity.

5.3 Recategorisation to a lower security category is not an automatic progression or right but must be based on clear evidence of reduction in previously identified risk levels to a level that is manageable in an establishment of the lower category.

In reviewing a prisoner’s security category it is essential to look at the reasons why, at his last review, the prisoner was placed in the current security category. Only then is it possible to determine whether, and to what extent, circumstances may have changed to warrant a change in category.  It is also important to consider the particular characteristics of the estate for which the prisoner is being assessed, taking account of physical security, supervision levels and regime availability. This is particularly important when considering whether to recategorise a prisoner to Category D, Because of the particular characteristics of the open estate, recategorisation to Category D must be based on the prisoner’s proven trustworthiness and manageable risks.
    
5.4   Two years is considered to be the maximum time a prisoner should spend in open
            conditions.  However, assessment of a prisoner’s individual risks and needs may support
            earlier recategorisation to D. Such cases must have the reasons for their categorisation
            fully documented and confirmed in writing by the Governing Governor.

5.5      Timing of recategorisation reviews

All prisoners other than those already categorised as Category D, those sentenced to less than 12 months, and ISPs (to whom PSI 36/2010 PSO 4700 Chapter 4 Serving the Indeterminate Sentence applies) must have their security reviewed at regular prescribed intervals

Prisoners serving indeterminate sentences will be subject to Sentence Planning and Review meetings, which must be held at least every 12 months, and in line with the OM III manual.  The ISP’s security category should be considered at each meeting.  (See PSO 4700 Chapter 4).

The following have a six monthly review

Prisoners serving a determinate sentence of 12 months or more but less than 4 years

Extended Sentence for Public Protection (EPP) prisoners with a custodial term of less than four years

Prisoners in the last 24 months of their sentence

The following have an annual review

Determinate sentence prisoners with a sentence of 4 years or more

EPP prisoners with a custodial term of four years or more

5.6       Recalled prisoners must be reviewed within 4 working days of the Parole Board or Justice    Secretary making a decision in their case.

5.7     Prisoners in the open estate, and Category D prisoners held in the closed estate, will be    reviewed only if there is a change in their circumstances; their behaviour gives cause for    concern or when new information or intelligence suggests an increase in risk levels.  For    ISPs, see PSI 36/2010 PSO 4700 Chapter 4, Serving the Indeterminate Sentence.

5.8       A prisoner’s recategorisation review must not be withheld or delayed to await the outcome of a parole hearing. To do so could be construed as unfairly jeopardising the prisoner’s chances of parole success. The review should take place at the normal time although it will normally be inappropriate to transfer the prisoner until the parole dossier is completed unless there is an urgent need to transfer the prisoner to conditions of higher security.

5.9      In addition to the prescribed timetable of reviews, prisoners may have their security category reviewed whenever there has been a significant change in their circumstances or behaviour which impacts on the level of security required. Changes might include those listed below, although other circumstances might also arise:

there is a change in circumstances or behaviour which indicates an urgent threat to prison security or the good order of the establishment

intelligence indicating involvement in ongoing serious criminality

further charges of a serious nature indicate that the prisoner requires a higher level of security

a notice of deportation is served   

a Confiscation Order is enforced

a Serious Crime Prevention Order (SCPO) is imposed

new or additional information comes to light. For example, during completion or updating the OASys assessment which highlights additional risk factors

there is cause for concern that the current categorisation decision is unsound. (There must be corroborative evidence to support that concern)
      
the prisoner has completed a successful ROTL

serious ROTL failure

a sentence/tariff is reduced on appeal

a key piece of offending behaviour work is completed, or there has been a successful detoxification or opiate substitute maintenance regime

a prisoner is recalled to custody

a prisoner is returned to prison custody from a Special Hospital.

I've posted about this before in another thread - probably in the 'Is Jeremy Bamber a psychopath' thread.

In my opinion it's worth all those people who are either sitting on the fence or believe Bamber to be innocent should familiarise themselves with PSI 40/2011 along with the yearly OASys reports.
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test_2
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2016, 08:00:PM »
I've posted about this before in another thread - probably in the 'Is Jeremy Bamber a psychopath' thread.

In my opinion it's worth all those people who are either sitting on the fence or believe Bamber to be innocent should familiarise themselves with PSI 40/2011 along with the yearly OASys reports.

So did I, had to trawl through them to look for it - no doubt in six months when the 'assessments' are brought up again, I'll have to trawl again!
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Offline David1819

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test_2
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2016, 08:04:PM »

But it wasn't just staged and left. He followed it up, too. The alleged phonecall in which he passed on words his father had allegedly told him, laying the blame at Sheila's feet. He then stood outside with them at WHF adding his own story of her mental history and how she'd previously attempted suicide. They say exactly what he'd planned for them to see. What he wasn't able to do was get into the emotions of those he'd killed. He didn't understand that a mother would rather die with her children than with her mother.

There is no statistical evidence or a large enough sample size of these rare instances to conclude such a thing.

Believing Jeremy must be guilty because Shelia was found in the main bedroom not the kids room is ill considered and downright laughable

Offline Caroline

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test_2
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2016, 08:07:PM »
There is no statistical evidence or a large enough sample size of these rare instances to conclude such a thing.

Believing Jeremy must be guilty because Shelia was found in the main bedroom not the kids room is ill considered and downright laughable

I don't think Jane said she did believe he was guilty because of where Sheila was found.
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Offline notsure

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test_2
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2016, 08:11:PM »
So hes a cat A prisoner and is seen as a great risk to public if he escapes .

Is that because he refuses to say hes guilty of such a violent crime and so renders him a physcho

Forgive me if i am getting the wrong end of the stick.

Offline Jane

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test_2
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2016, 08:12:PM »
I don't think Jane said she did believe he was guilty because of where Sheila was found.

No, I didn't, Caroline. Thank you for pointing it out to David.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test_2
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2016, 08:14:PM »
So hes a cat A prisoner and is seen as a great risk to public if he escapes .

Is that because he refuses to say hes guilty of such a violent crime and so renders him a physcho

Forgive me if i am getting the wrong end of the stick.

No, you mentioned the annual assessments that Jeremy has had. The documents explain what those assessments are all about.
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