Author Topic: EU Referendum  (Read 40126 times)

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guest29835

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #195 on: January 02, 2021, 06:50:PM »
I suppose if you're nomophobic with a pet chihuahua driving to Spain things might become a little awkward for you..https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/10-things-that-will-change-in-the-uk-on-1-january-because-of-brexit/ar-BB1cnR2T?ocid=msedgntp

The Devil is in the detail.  I think it's a sell-out.  Nevertheless, we have left the EU.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #196 on: January 02, 2021, 08:28:PM »
The Devil is in the detail.  I think it's a sell-out.  Nevertheless, we have left the EU.
I've read somewhere that if we don't agree fishing quotas after this new deal expires in 2025 they can turn the lights off here.

guest29835

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #197 on: January 02, 2021, 08:45:PM »
I've read somewhere that if we don't agree fishing quotas after this new deal expires in 2025 they can turn the lights off here.

That probably explains this:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-norway-sign-historic-fisheries-agreement

Regarding gas, imports from Norway are roughly 40%, domestic production is roughly 33%, with 20% from the European mainland network (probably a lot of that from Russia itself), while roughly 7% is LNG from Qatar.

I don't see a problem.  We have the gas pretty much tied up and could generate a great deal of our own required electricity through a mixture of coal, nuclear and renewable resources.  We import electricity from the Continental transmission system, but that's only a small percentage of the overall requirement and demanded as market fluctuations require.  According to the following link, burning fossil fuels accounts for roughly 54.1% of supply, which means that gas imports from and via Europe and Russia account for only around just under 11% of electricity generation.

https://www.energy-uk.org.uk/our-work/generation/electricity-generation.html#:~:text=Most%20of%20the%20UK's%20electricity,(3.1%25%20in%202016)

It seems that Norway is strategically important to us because although they are an EEA state, they are outside the EU itself, meaning they aren't signed up to the Common Fisheries Policy and can deal with us independently.  They have their own bilateral fisheries agreement with the EU: https://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/press/eu-and-norway-reach-agreement-fisheries-arrangements-2020_en

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #198 on: April 01, 2021, 12:00:PM »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #199 on: April 08, 2021, 10:12:AM »
Frightened people will lash out, whatever the rights and wrongs of the current dispute. https://youtu.be/mYnixplpdFU

guest29835

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #200 on: September 05, 2021, 09:22:AM »
Resuming the Europe theme, this contribution by none other than Margaret Thatcher has to be considered one of the greatest-ever speeches to the House of Commons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV9W0UYwtl8

I also remember the big fuss that was made over her Bruges Speech, because it was clearly an articulation of British nationalism and European ethno-pluralism, which greatly offended the globalists.  I can't agree with her interpretation of the War, but it was a terrific speech:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_XsSnivgNg

I've also found a full version of Thatcher's famous (or infamous, if you prefer) "No, No, No" speech to the House of Commons.  The relevant part is at 17:38:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUkXbS7s_J4

Brings back to mind the way that the House of Commons was much more of a roughhouse than it is today and mainstream politics was less politically-correct and consequently more entertaining than it is now.  You only have to watch it for a few minutes to quickly recognise that politicians back then were more articulate, eloquent and intelligent than today.  They actually used big words and clearly assumed intelligence on the part of the viewing/listening public.

I'm also reminded of how amusing the exchanges between Thatcher and Kinnock were.  A real double-act.    In that regard, I recommend watching from 14:25.  The "Little Sir Echo" comment a little further along is hilarious, and very much an accurate reflection of the proto-Remainer attitude.  One of the Tory backbenchers then shouted, "Give us the boyo!"  Elsewhere, Thatcher nicknamed Kinnock "the Welsh windbag", and to be honest, she was right - but again, this seems reflective of a strikingly robust and politically-incorrect atmosphere in society.  Today she would be interviewed by the police for such a remark.

There's quite a topical Europe-themed question from Nicholas Ridley at 19:04 for anybody who is interested.

I'm further reminded at 21:28 of what a tedious dunce Paddy Ashdown was.  Thatcher's response to him is brilliant and sums him up perfectly - "It seems as if there must be quite a lot of late parrots in cloud cuckoo land for somebody to come out with that stuff". 

I recall his stupid war-mongering during the 1990s for NATO intervention in the former Yugoslavia - he eventually got his wish under Blair.  He was a very odd man: totally Europhilic, federalist and wet, despite a background as an officer in the Royal Marines and other very creditable service for his country.

He was always nicknamed Pantsdown because he couldn't keep it in his trousers - perhaps the only redeeming quality about him.

Offline Roch

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #201 on: September 05, 2021, 11:46:AM »
Resuming the Europe theme, this contribution by none other than Margaret Thatcher has to be considered one of the greatest-ever speeches to the House of Commons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV9W0UYwtl8

I also remember the big fuss that was made over her Bruges Speech, because it was clearly an articulation of British nationalism and European ethno-pluralism, which greatly offended the globalists.  I can't agree with her interpretation of the War, but it was a terrific speech:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_XsSnivgNg

I've also found a full version of Thatcher's famous (or infamous, if you prefer) "No, No, No" speech to the House of Commons.  The relevant part is at 17:38:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUkXbS7s_J4

Brings back to mind the way that the House of Commons was much more of a roughhouse than it is today and mainstream politics was less politically-correct and consequently more entertaining than it is now.  You only have to watch it for a few minutes to quickly recognise that politicians back then were more articulate, eloquent and intelligent than today.  They actually used big words and clearly assumed intelligence on the part of the viewing/listening public.

I'm also reminded of how amusing the exchanges between Thatcher and Kinnock were.  A real double-act.    In that regard, I recommend watching from 14:25.  The "Little Sir Echo" comment a little further along is hilarious, and very much an accurate reflection of the proto-Remainer attitude.  One of the Tory backbenchers then shouted, "Give us the boyo!"  Elsewhere, Thatcher nicknamed Kinnock "the Welsh windbag", and to be honest, she was right - but again, this seems reflective of a strikingly robust and politically-incorrect atmosphere in society.  Today she would be interviewed by the police for such a remark.

There's quite a topical Europe-themed question from Nicholas Ridley at 19:04 for anybody who is interested.

I'm further reminded at 21:28 of what a tedious dunce Paddy Ashdown was.  Thatcher's response to him is brilliant and sums him up perfectly - "It seems as if there must be quite a lot of late parrots in cloud cuckoo land for somebody to come out with that stuff". 

I recall his stupid war-mongering during the 1990s for NATO intervention in the former Yugoslavia - he eventually got his wish under Blair.  He was a very odd man: totally Europhilic, federalist and wet, despite a background as an officer in the Royal Marines and other very creditable service for his country.

He was always nicknamed Pantsdown because he couldn't keep it in his trousers - perhaps the only redeeming quality about him.

I had an agreement with my schoolmate that we would have a pint when she died. It didn't happen because he had emigrated by then and my 'hatred' towards her had probably mellowed, as life goes on. Wasn't it her old chemistry lecturer who said she thought Thatcher was a 'narrow and destructive' politician? Or was the phrase divisive. I also remember being told off at school by my own chemistry teacher. The first school morning after the Brighton bomb, I said 'it's shame they missed her'. This prompted a rebuke from said teacher. I always remember feeling surprised that anyone would defend her, such was the animosity in our parts against the witch.

guest29835

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #202 on: September 05, 2021, 12:25:PM »
I had an agreement with my schoolmate that we would have a pint when she died. It didn't happen because he had emigrated by then and my 'hatred' towards her had probably mellowed, as life goes on. Wasn't it her old chemistry lecturer who said she thought Thatcher was a 'narrow and destructive' politician? Or was the phrase divisive. I also remember being told off at school by my own chemistry teacher. The first school morning after the Brighton bomb, I said 'it's shame they missed her'. This prompted a rebuke from said teacher. I always remember feeling surprised that anyone would defend her, such was the animosity in our parts against the witch.

Part of my childhood was right at the centre of the 1984/85 Miners' Strike, in an area affected by pit closures.  In consequence, my own initial politics was well to the Left, and at one point Marxist.  Additionally, most of my father's ancestors from the beginning of industrialism were miners.  I mention this to explain that I am steeped in the sort of politics and attitude that you refer to - but I matured and moved on from it. 

One well-aimed jibe Neil Kinnock did make about her (from the dispatch box) is that she was a "crank".  On cool reflection, I think she and certain other high-flying Tories had an intellectual bent that led them into neo-liberal crankery - what became known as the New Right (not to be confused with the more traditionalist French New Right).  It then became known as Thatcherism (thanks to some black sociologist whose name I've momentarily forgotten).

This current included Heath initially - the first half of his premiership was proto-thatcherite and some of Thatcher's ideas, such as Right to Buy, actually began or were first tested under the Heath government before it reverted back to the consensus social-democracy typical of that era.

I think Thatcher's crankishness or ideological over-focus meant she developed a blind spot for certain things.  She was from Grantham, which is a quiet Lincolnshire market town.  Her father was a grocer.  Nothing wrong with that, and it clearly influenced her.  She became an industrial chemist (an ice cream factory), but that sounds like quite an abstract and aloof role.  How much did she really understand about industry?  Did she have a keenness for it, and interest in it culturally?  An intellectual curiosity for how things work, as opposed to just theorising, testing, observing and explaining things passively?

Grantham is not too distant from the Nottinghamshire coal fields, but it is very distant - a world apart, really - from the more socialist-minded West Riding coalfields and she either didn't understand the importance of industry for social cohesion or refused to consider it.  Thatcherism was extreme Misesian economics, in effect applied Social Darwinism: all about the rigours of the market and competitive pressures. 

Her attitude harked back to Manchester Liberalism (or you could call it Gladstonian liberalism, which was a later very similar school of thought).  She was really a Liberal and a liberal (both large 'L' and small 'l') rather than a Tory proper.  Her father was a local Liberal politician. 

Her view and attitude was literally this:

If you can buy and import brown coal from Australia cheaper than it can be extracted in domestic mines, then it is OK to put British miners out of work.

But...but...but...I hear you say, what about all the jobs, the traditions, the feeder businesses that depend on miners' wives' spending and the local economic activity it generates?  What about energy security?  What about patriotism, manliness, pride in doing a man's job and the wider important social benefits this brings in society by retaining a traditional male role?  What about all this Missus Thatcher, well, eh?  Eh?

Missus Thatcher's haughty Manchester Liberal response: "We're not giving outdoor relief to the working classes, you know."

That is literally what she says about it in her memoirs.  She uses those exact words.  You can look it up. 

That is the logic of a small-minded provincial grocer from somewhere like Grantham who votes Old Liberal or Tory and sports a British bulldog in his grocer's shop while screwing over his countrymen due to his narrow-minded, myopic, tone-deaf attachment to economic abstractions.

Still, no-one can deny she was one of this country's more impactful Prime Ministers.  Her personality and intellect were those of a 'Great Man'.  If she had developed a more rounded perspective on things, she could have been great, but as it is, she did too much wrong.  The state was expanded under her premiership, not reduced; she was soft on immigration; she paved the way for Blairism due to her media-driven style of government; she gave into the IRA (despite impressions to the contrary), she gave into Europe (again, despite loud protestations to the contrary).  And more. 

But I will save all that for another time.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #203 on: January 22, 2022, 07:03:PM »