Questions about the bible :

[Adam]

How did the bible end up on top of Sheila's blood ?

It must have been after someone pulled her legs after the second shot 

[Adam]

What forensic evidence ? Your logic is on a par with your knowledge of the Bible and religion ie zero points on both counts ...

You obvioisly haven't read large chunks of this thread. Simply dropping in with you're statements now and again.

The bible on it's own is enough to convict Bamber. However there is a mountain of other incriminating forensic evidence.

[sherlock]

Do you believe Sheila pre planned the massacre ?

Or she suddenly woke up, got up, woke up Neville, went into a rage which Neville amazingly couldn't stop. So he errr rang Bamber !

No i do not believe Sheila pre planned the murder ...

If Sheila committed the murders then it seems most likely that she was running about the house with the gun - but had not shot anybody ...

At that point Neville phoned Jeremy expecting that between them they could calm her down - maybe Nevilles normal ability to calm Sheila down wasn't working - and he assumed that Jeremy might be able to help out ..

Sheila shot June upstairs whilst Neville was phoning Jeremy - he therefore hang up and instantly dialled the Police ...

Having spoke to the Police he then ran straight upstairs to the bedroom to help out ...

Sheila then shot him 4 times in the bedroom ...

He started to run back downstairs ...

Sheila shot him on the stairs - once ...

She then shot him 3 more times in the kitchen and battered him with the gun ...


This is only a theory of course - can you see any holes in it ?

Is there any reason any one why that chain of events could not have taken place ?

[sherlock]

You obvioisly haven't read large chunks of this thread. Simply dropping in with you're statements now and again.

The bible on it's own is enough to convict Bamber. However there is a mountain of other incriminating forensic evidence.

Only in YOUR mind Adam ...

What forensic evidence Adam ? Look up the word forensic in a dictionary ...

And then tell me what FORENSIC evidence there was ...

[Caroline]

Only in YOUR mind Adam ...

What forensic evidence Adam ? Look up the word forensic in a dictionary ...

And then tell me what FORENSIC evidence there was ...

Blood, finger prints and a possible palm print. Someone also closed the bible when the blood was wet because there is a partial mirror image of the finger prints. This doesn't point necessarily to Jeremy but Adam is right about there being forensic evidence - just not that it could have convicted Jeremy.

[sherlock]

How did the bible end up on top of Sheila's blood ?

It must have been after someone pulled her legs after the second shot 

If the blood underneath the Bible was Sheilas (how do you know it was ?) then ...

She shot herself once with the Bible on her chest ...

She bled on to the carpet ...

She shot herself for the second time shortly afterwards ...

The Bible fell from her chest to the floor either just before or just after the second shot ...

When it fell it opened up as per the crime scene photos ...

Any holes in that theory Adam ?

[sherlock]

Blood, finger prints and a possible palm print. Someone also closed the bible when the blood was wet because there is a partial mirror image of the finger prints. This doesn't point necessarily to Jeremy but Adam is right about there being forensic evidence - just not that it could have convicted Jeremy.

There was as you say certain forensics found - but nothing that could help in identifying who did it ...

Adam was totally wrong therefore to say that there was INCRIMINATING forensic evidence ...

[Adam]

No i do not believe Sheila pre planned the murder ...

If Sheila committed the murders then it seems most likely that she was running about the house with the gun - but had not shot anybody ...

At that point Neville phoned Jeremy expecting that between them they could calm her down - maybe Nevilles normal ability to calm Sheila down wasn't working - and he assumed that Jeremy might be able to help out ..

Sheila shot June upstairs whilst Neville was phoning Jeremy - he therefore hang up and instantly dialled the Police ...

Having spoke to the Police he then ran straight upstairs to the bedroom to help out ...

Sheila then shot him 4 times in the bedroom ...

He started to run back downstairs ...

Sheila shot him on the stairs - once ...

She then shot him 3 more times in the kitchen and battered him with the gun ...


This is only a theory of course - can you see any holes in it ?

Is there any reason any one why that chain of events could not have taken place ?

Sheila was running about the house with a weak rifle she had never used before. I suppose we have all been guilty of running around our parents house holding a rifle, bare footed and in our PJ's at least once in our lives. Haven't we ?

She was bare foot in her nightie. So had obviously gone to bed. What made her wake up and go on this horrific rampage. It certainly wasn't the alleged supper conversation which the judge dismissed. Or anyone else in WHF. They were all asleep.

Bit of a surprise no one else woke while Sheila was running around the house.

Oh yes, Bamber was a real help when he eventually answered Neville's 'mysterious' call. There are 40 reasons why Neville would not call Bamber. Thread created.

Bamber is saying Neville phoned him at 3.10am. Then Neville phoned the police at 3.26am. Or is it 3.36am. Bamber keeps changing times. Anyway why did Neville call the police if Sheila started shooting when Neville was on the phone to Bamber. Are you saying Neville heard the shots but still phoned the police. Or didn't hear the shots but still cut his call off to Bamber abruptly. 

If Sheila started shooting while Neville was on the phone, she would be out of bullets by the time Neville got upstairs. Especially if Neville called the police while the shooting took place.

Neville runs upstairs, unprotected. And allows Sheila to get within inches of him and shoot him four times. He then runs downstairs for some unexplained reason. Rather than confront Sheila upstairs in an attempt to save his wife, grand children, daughter and himself.

[David1819]

Where does it state that it was Sheila's? Could have been June's!

The reference number is Shelia's fingerprint the same print and reference number used to identify her print ON the gun!

[sherlock]

Sheila was running about the house with a weak rifle she had never used before. I suppose we have all been guilty of running around our parents house holding a rifle, bare footed and in our PJ's at least once in our lives. Haven't we ?

She was bare foot in her nightie. So had obviously gone to bed. What made her wake up and go on this horrific rampage. It certainly wasn't the alleged supper conversation which the judge dismissed. Or anyone else in WHF. They were all asleep.

Bit of a surprise no one else woke while Sheila was running around the house.

Oh yes, Bamber was a real help when he eventually answered Neville's 'mysterious' call. There are 40 reasons why Neville would not call Bamber. Thread created.

Bamber is saying Neville phoned him at 3.10am. Then Neville phoned the police at 3.26am. Or is it 3.36am. Bamber keeps changing times. Anyway why did Neville call the police if Sheila started shooting when Neville was on the phone to Bamber. Are you saying Neville heard the shots but still phoned the police. Or didn't hear the shots but still cut his call off to Bamber abruptly. 

If Sheila started shooting while Neville was on the phone, she would be out of bullets by the time Neville got upstairs. Especially if Neville called the police while the shooting took place.

Neville runs upstairs, unprotected. And allows Sheila to get within inches of him and shoot him four times. He then runs downstairs for some unexplained reason. Rather than confront Sheila upstairs in an attempt to save his wife, grand children, daughter and himself.

Someone was running about the house with the gun - could well have been Sheila ...

[Adam]

Just re read Sherlocks post.

I've never heard a poster say Neville heard Sheila firing upstairs shots while he was on the phone to Bamber. Then rather than run upstairs, Neville then spends at least 5 minutrs phoning the police !

Sheila will be out of bullets. And June dead. But at least Neville can restrain Sheila upstairs, can't he ?

[Caroline]

The reference number is Shelia's fingerprint the same print and reference number used to identify her print ON the gun!

I have argued long and hard that Sheila's prints and palm print were on the bible David - I am winding you up!    - I knew you would bite! 

[sherlock]

Sheila was running about the house with a weak rifle she had never used before. I suppose we have all been guilty of running around our parents house holding a rifle, bare footed and in our PJ's at least once in our lives. Haven't we ?

She was bare foot in her nightie. So had obviously gone to bed. What made her wake up and go on this horrific rampage. It certainly wasn't the alleged supper conversation which the judge dismissed. Or anyone else in WHF. They were all asleep.

Bit of a surprise no one else woke while Sheila was running around the house.

Oh yes, Bamber was a real help when he eventually answered Neville's 'mysterious' call. There are 40 reasons why Neville would not call Bamber. Thread created.

Bamber is saying Neville phoned him at 3.10am. Then Neville phoned the police at 3.26am. Or is it 3.36am. Bamber keeps changing times. Anyway why did Neville call the police if Sheila started shooting when Neville was on the phone to Bamber. Are you saying Neville heard the shots but still phoned the police. Or didn't hear the shots but still cut his call off to Bamber abruptly. 

If Sheila started shooting while Neville was on the phone, she would be out of bullets by the time Neville got upstairs. Especially if Neville called the police while the shooting took place.

Neville runs upstairs, unprotected. And allows Sheila to get within inches of him and shoot him four times. He then runs downstairs for some unexplained reason. Rather than confront Sheila upstairs in an attempt to save his wife, grand children, daughter and himself.

Her mental health and the side effects of the medication ...

[sherlock]

Sheila was running about the house with a weak rifle she had never used before. I suppose we have all been guilty of running around our parents house holding a rifle, bare footed and in our PJ's at least once in our lives. Haven't we ?

She was bare foot in her nightie. So had obviously gone to bed. What made her wake up and go on this horrific rampage. It certainly wasn't the alleged supper conversation which the judge dismissed. Or anyone else in WHF. They were all asleep.

Bit of a surprise no one else woke while Sheila was running around the house.

Oh yes, Bamber was a real help when he eventually answered Neville's 'mysterious' call. There are 40 reasons why Neville would not call Bamber. Thread created.

Bamber is saying Neville phoned him at 3.10am. Then Neville phoned the police at 3.26am. Or is it 3.36am. Bamber keeps changing times. Anyway why did Neville call the police if Sheila started shooting when Neville was on the phone to Bamber. Are you saying Neville heard the shots but still phoned the police. Or didn't hear the shots but still cut his call off to Bamber abruptly. 

If Sheila started shooting while Neville was on the phone, she would be out of bullets by the time Neville got upstairs. Especially if Neville called the police while the shooting took place.

Neville runs upstairs, unprotected. And allows Sheila to get within inches of him and shoot him four times. He then runs downstairs for some unexplained reason. Rather than confront Sheila upstairs in an attempt to save his wife, grand children, daughter and himself.

We don't know this - in fact Neville was in the habit of relaxing downstairs late at night - he might well have been awake downstairs when Sheila started going mad ...

[sherlock]

Sheila was running about the house with a weak rifle she had never used before. I suppose we have all been guilty of running around our parents house holding a rifle, bare footed and in our PJ's at least once in our lives. Haven't we ?

She was bare foot in her nightie. So had obviously gone to bed. What made her wake up and go on this horrific rampage. It certainly wasn't the alleged supper conversation which the judge dismissed. Or anyone else in WHF. They were all asleep.

Bit of a surprise no one else woke while Sheila was running around the house.

Oh yes, Bamber was a real help when he eventually answered Neville's 'mysterious' call. There are 40 reasons why Neville would not call Bamber. Thread created.

Bamber is saying Neville phoned him at 3.10am. Then Neville phoned the police at 3.26am. Or is it 3.36am. Bamber keeps changing times. Anyway why did Neville call the police if Sheila started shooting when Neville was on the phone to Bamber. Are you saying Neville heard the shots but still phoned the police. Or didn't hear the shots but still cut his call off to Bamber abruptly. 

If Sheila started shooting while Neville was on the phone, she would be out of bullets by the time Neville got upstairs. Especially if Neville called the police while the shooting took place.

Neville runs upstairs, unprotected. And allows Sheila to get within inches of him and shoot him four times. He then runs downstairs for some unexplained reason. Rather than confront Sheila upstairs in an attempt to save his wife, grand children, daughter and himself.

In YOUR mind Adam - not mine -he might well have phoned Jeremy before Sheila started shooting - obviously not after though ...