Author Topic: Forensic evidence on Sheila:  (Read 9158 times)

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Offline Adam

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Forensic evidence on Sheila:
« on: December 15, 2015, 05:41:PM »
From the 2002 appeal.

45. Sheila Caffell was also dressed in her nightwear and bare-footed. She had received two contact or near contact bullet wounds to her throat. The higher of the two wounds would have killed her almost instantaneously. The lower of the two would have been a fatal injury but not one where death would have occurred immediately and a person having suffered such an injury may have been able to stand up and walk around for a little time. The lack of heavy blood staining to Sheila Caffell's nightdress suggested that this had not happened here. The lower of the two injuries must have been the first since it had led to haemorrhaging inside the neck and this would not have occurred to the same extent if the other wound, which would have been immediately fatal, had preceded it. Dr Vanezis gave evidence that the nature of the blood stains to the nightdress suggested that Sheila Caffell was sitting up when she received both injuries. After the second injury she would have immediately fallen back. There was no evidence of any other mark or injury to Sheila Caffell's body such as might be suffered during a fight or in a scuffle.

The interesting points here are -

Sheila was bare footed and in her nightdress. Just as June was. Neville was also bare footed and in just his pyjamas. All this suggests they were all asleep in bed. Which is quite possible at 2am.

Her shots were contact or near contact shots. Perhaps resulting in back splatter ?

Bad news for Bamber. His first shot would have killed her. But not immediately. But at the time, he wouldn't know and couldn't take that risk.

After the first shot Sheila could have walked around a bit. But the evidence on her nightdress shows she didn't. This means Sheila could only have been fully fit, if seen in the kitchen by the police. She then shot herself twice.

It says Sheila was sitting up when she received both gun shots. This supports the evidence that Sheila's legs were pulled after the second shot. It is quite possible Bamber pulled an asleep Sheila up in order to aim correctly,  and shot her in her bed. Then pulled her legs after the second shot, to lay the rifle on her.

No other marks on her, supports the recent thread showing she did not have the kitchen fight with Neville. Or move around WHF shooting everyone else.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 06:13:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

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Re: Forensic evidence on Sheila:
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2015, 06:22:PM »
You seem to have constructed a far fetched story to attach to a scenario that only you believe. You also appear to have higher opinion of your own beliefs than those of Venezis who, "when asked whether it would have been possible for Sheila to get up and walk around after the first wound was inflicted, replied that it was unlikely because the wound would have discharged "a lot of blood" Today he is firmer still "She hadn't got up at all""


Offline Adam

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Re: Forensic evidence on Sheila:
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2015, 06:30:PM »

The 2002 appeal is agreeing that Sheila didn't get up. As no blood ran down her.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Forensic evidence on Sheila:
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2015, 06:35:PM »
From the 2002 appeal.

45. Sheila Caffell was also dressed in her nightwear and bare-footed. She had received two contact or near contact bullet wounds to her throat. The higher of the two wounds would have killed her almost instantaneously. The lower of the two would have been a fatal injury but not one where death would have occurred immediately and a person having suffered such an injury may have been able to stand up and walk around for a little time. The lack of heavy blood staining to Sheila Caffell's nightdress suggested that this had not happened here. The lower of the two injuries must have been the first since it had led to haemorrhaging inside the neck and this would not have occurred to the same extent if the other wound, which would have been immediately fatal, had preceded it. Dr Vanezis gave evidence that the nature of the blood stains to the nightdress suggested that Sheila Caffell was sitting up when she received both injuries. After the second injury she would have immediately fallen back. There was no evidence of any other mark or injury to Sheila Caffell's body such as might be suffered during a fight or in a scuffle.

The interesting points here are -

Sheila was bare footed and in her nightdress. Just as June was. Neville was also bare footed and in just his pyjamas. All this suggests they were all asleep in bed. Which is quite possible at 2am.

Her shots were contact or near contact shots. Perhaps resulting in back splatter ?

Bad news for Bamber. His first shot would have killed her. But not immediately. But at the time, he wouldn't know and couldn't take that risk.

After the first shot Sheila could have walked around a bit. But the evidence on her nightdress shows she didn't. This means Sheila could only have been fully fit, if seen in the kitchen by the police. She then shot herself twice.

It says Sheila was sitting up when she received both gun shots. This supports the evidence that Sheila's legs were pulled after the second shot. It is quite possible Bamber pulled an asleep Sheila up in order to aim correctly,  and shot her in her bed. Then pulled her legs after the second shot, to lay the rifle on her.

No other marks on her, supports the recent thread showing she did not have the kitchen fight with Neville. Or move around WHF shooting everyone else.

Only in Adam's world!
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Jane

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Re: Forensic evidence on Sheila:
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2015, 06:42:PM »
The 2002 appeal is agreeing that Sheila didn't get up. As no blood ran down her.


Vanezis also has it that there was enough time between shots for there to have occurred "a fairly large build up of blood in the neck area" which would have very likely expirated had she been lifted and moved.

Offline Adam

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Re: Forensic evidence on Sheila:
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2015, 07:12:PM »

Vanezis also has it that there was enough time between shots for there to have occurred "a fairly large build up of blood in the neck area" which would have very likely expirated had she been lifted and moved.

Did he now. That must have been the gap between the first shot when Sheila was asleep in bed, and the second shot after Bamber had moved her and then realised she was still alive.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

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Re: Forensic evidence on Sheila:
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2015, 07:14:PM »
Did he now. That must have been the gap between the first shot when Sheila was asleep in bed, and the second shot after Bamber had moved her and then realised she was still alive.

So where was the expirated blood?


Offline Adam

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Re: Forensic evidence on Sheila:
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2015, 07:18:PM »
So where was the expirated blood?

No idea. Do you believe in the ten seconds it took Bamber to carry Sheila, there was a shower of blood being sprayed around from Sheila's neck ?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

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Re: Forensic evidence on Sheila:
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2015, 07:22:PM »
No idea. Do you believe in the ten seconds it took Bamber to carry Sheila, there was a shower of blood being sprayed around from Sheila's neck ?

Yes, the very act of breathing would have caused expiration. A hell of a lot of blood can flow in ten seconds when every breath is pumping it out.

Offline lookout

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Re: Forensic evidence on Sheila:
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2015, 07:25:PM »
Yes, the very act of breathing would have caused expiration. A hell of a lot of blood can flow in ten seconds when every breath is pumping it out.





Probably went downwards, ( the gullet )-----gravity and all that if her head was tilted against the bedside cupboard.

Offline Jane

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Re: Forensic evidence on Sheila:
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2015, 07:33:PM »




Probably went downwards, ( the gullet )-----gravity and all that if her head was tilted against the bedside cupboard.

Adam is STILL insisting Jeremy carried her. I think that much blood going down her throat would have choked her. I guess it would have been somewhat worse than being at the dentist and feeling water trickling down ones throat.

Offline lookout

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Re: Forensic evidence on Sheila:
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2015, 07:44:PM »
Adam is STILL insisting Jeremy carried her. I think that much blood going down her throat would have choked her. I guess it would have been somewhat worse than being at the dentist and feeling water trickling down ones throat.





Being half dead anyway she wouldn't have noticed it going down as the swallowing reflexes would have remained relaxed. Like poring something into a jug,if you get my description.

Offline lookout

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Re: Forensic evidence on Sheila:
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2015, 07:45:PM »
Someone on Red suggested she was shot in her bed.

If she was, then he must have carried her, as there was no vertical blood down her.





Nobody carried her.

Offline Jane

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Re: Forensic evidence on Sheila:
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2015, 07:50:PM »
Sherlock did.

Keep up.


Sherlock's theories weren't believed here, either.

Offline Adam

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Re: Forensic evidence on Sheila:
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2015, 07:51:PM »
That's fine. You believe Sheila slept with June.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.