The rifle at the upstairs window Conundrum - The Bamber Alibi, revisted...

[David1819]

Hi David was only joking about Rambo, you look the sort who doesn't take offence, not defending Essex police I have seen the firearms team in action in 2007 and make a cock up, li actually got chased in a mix up by  them, just don't think they would hide the fact 2 rifles were used.

I know  maybe Jeremy was watching too much Rambo?

Put it this way

1. Jeremy writes out a map of the house and colour codes the walls, He marks the front of the rouse with an R for red.

2. WPC Jeapes in her writes before the raid team broke in. "I saw that the front door of the farm was shut and that a light was on in the room to the right of this which I understood was the kitchen. I could also see a window one the first floor of white/red side were the building is clad in grey brick in which was what appeared to be a rifle leaning against the window"


3. A photo taken from the stairs then shows a rifle leaning against the window of the main bedroom exactly as jeapes described.

4. You then have discrepancies of when the laboratory received the weapon/s one statement has testing being done on the rifle yet other statements claiming they first received the rifle weeks after they first tested the rife   

All these points on their own raise eyebrows but put them together to find they all corroborate one another it would be a remarkable coincidence that defies reasonable probability if only one rifle was used. I don't think this can be ignored and should be seriously considered

[mike tesko]

Much has been made of the fact that two rifles were used but thus far no proof of it has been forthcoming. Wrong, evidence suggesting at least two different weapons 'had' been used, possibly as many as three of four, can be found by reference to the number of weapons which police 'fingerprinted' as part of their investigation, namely, the 12 bore shotgun, the .22 semi - automatic anshuzt rifle, and the .22 BSA air rifle... Nor is there proof that Nevill kept a rifle under his bed. Well, according to what Jeremy told police he did. The thing is however, on the morning of the incident when police searched the farmhouse they did not see or find such a loaded shotgun beneath the bed in the main bedroom. The shotgun in question was literally found in the gun cupboard of 'The Den', and was found to have an empty 12 bore cartridge case still lodged in its breach, suggesting someone must have fired it but not ejected or removed the spent cartridge immediately after firing it. Police took an interest in this shotgun because a locally based resident had reportedly heard the sound of a shotgun being discharged once from the direction and the vicinity of white house farm sometime between 9.30pm and 10.15pm, on the evening of the 6th August 1985... I believe a single print of Sheila's was found on THE rifle her prints were also found on the 12 bore Shotgun, and the .22 BSA air rifle... but I have no recall of proof of her prints being on A rifle. Well, its not surprising that her fingerprints were not found all over the anshuzt rifle, because it was manually handled by the police who moved it from its starting point at the box room window, brought it to Sheila's body and placed it on her body, as part of 'a gauging exercise' designed to clarify whether or not Sheila could have fired 'that' rifle at the time the other four victims were shot and killed. It is very interesting to note in some of the crime scene photographs, that Sheila's right hand is resting on top of the rifles ammunition magazine, yet none of her fingerprints were found there...

BTW, if you're not interested in what the forensic report say, does one presume you to be interested only in rumour?

[lemonhead]

I know  maybe Jeremy was watching too much Rambo?

Put it this way

1. Jeremy writes out a map of the house and colour codes the walls, He marks the front of the rouse with an R for red.

2. WPC Jeapes in her writes before the raid team broke in. "I saw that the front door of the farm was shut and that a light was on in the room to the right of this which I understood was the kitchen. I could also see a window one the first floor of white/red side were the building is clad in grey brick in which was what appeared to be a rifle leaning against the window"


3. A photo taken from the stairs then shows a rifle leaning against the window of the main bedroom exactly as jeapes described.

4. You then have discrepancies of when the laboratory received the weapon/s one statement has testing being done on the rifle yet other statements claiming they first received the rifle weeks after they first tested the rife   

All these points on their own raise eyebrows but put them together to find they all corroborate one another it would be a remarkable coincidence that defies reasonable probability if only one rifle was used. I don't think this can be ignored and should be seriously considered

In the location where the rifle is in the photo it can't be seen by someone outside on the ground.  It is to the side not directly in front of the window.  Arguing any of the police standing outside observed the rifle while it was in the exact position in the photograph is sheer fallacy.

To make matters worse though you keep raising an alleged sighting that took place in the boxroom window.  The window clad in grey above the kitchen is the boxroom not the bedroom.  WPS Jeapes was looking at the boxroom window.   

 

[mike tesko]

was there a bloodie hand print found on the wallpaper in the stair passage near the kitchen

I believe it was found on the wall near the top of the main stairs - 'O' type blood...

[guest7363]

I know  maybe Jeremy was watching too much Rambo?

Put it this way

1. Jeremy writes out a map of the house and colour codes the walls, He marks the front of the rouse with an R for red.

2. WPC Jeapes in her writes before the raid team broke in. "I saw that the front door of the farm was shut and that a light was on in the room to the right of this which I understood was the kitchen. I could also see a window one the first floor of white/red side were the building is clad in grey brick in which was what appeared to be a rifle leaning against the window"


3. A photo taken from the stairs then shows a rifle leaning against the window of the main bedroom exactly as jeapes described.

4. You then have discrepancies of when the laboratory received the weapon/s one statement has testing being done on the rifle yet other statements claiming they first received the rifle weeks after they first tested the rife   

All these points on their own raise eyebrows but put them together to find they all corroborate one another it would be a remarkable coincidence that defies reasonable probability if only one rifle was used. I don't think this can be ignored and should be seriously considered

  I thought this had been cleared up and all been through several times David, she is looking at the kitchen side and the door that the police made an entry through, the bedroom she is looking at is the box room.

[sami]

In the location where the rifle is in the photo it can't be seen by someone outside on the ground.  It is to the side not directly in front of the window.  Arguing any of the police standing outside observed the rifle while it was in the exact position in the photograph is sheer fallacy.

To make matters worse though you keep raising an alleged sighting that took place in the boxroom window.  The window clad in grey above the kitchen is the boxroom not the bedroom.  WPS Jeapes was looking at the boxroom window.

thank you lemonhead.i didnt notice that

[guest7363]

In the location where the rifle is in the photo it can't be seen by someone outside on the ground.  It is to the side not directly in front of the window.  Arguing any of the police standing outside observed the rifle while it was in the exact position in the photograph is sheer fallacy.

To make matters worse though you keep raising an alleged sighting that took place in the boxroom window.  The window clad in grey above the kitchen is the boxroom not the bedroom.  WPS Jeapes was looking at the boxroom window.

Correct Lemonhead

[Jane]

Mike, my congratulations once again on your clever use of words. I say there is no evidence re..............you tell me "there is evidence to suggest......................" and "the police took an interest in because ..............." I say there is no evidence that Nevill kept a rifle under his bed, you tell me "according to Jeremy................." and you give the reason there is NO proof that Sheila's prints were on "A rifle" as being because "it was manually handled by the police............." and you've managed it all without actually providing one piece of hard evidence.

[sami]

Mike, my congratulations once again on your clever use of words. I say there is no evidence re..............you tell me "there is evidence to suggest......................" and "the police took an interest in because ..............." I say there is no evidence that Nevill kept a rifle under his bed, you tell me "according to Jeremy................." and you give the reason there is NO proof that Sheila's prints were on "A rifle" as being because "it was manually handled by the police............." and you've managed it all without actually providing one piece of hard evidence.

that is funny jane youre very witty.love reading your posts.keep up the good work.

[lemonhead]

Mike, my congratulations once again on your clever use of words. I say there is no evidence re..............you tell me "there is evidence to suggest......................" and "the police took an interest in because ..............." I say there is no evidence that Nevill kept a rifle under his bed, you tell me "according to Jeremy................." and you give the reason there is NO proof that Sheila's prints were on "A rifle" as being because "it was manually handled by the police............." and you've managed it all without actually providing one piece of hard evidence.

You left out that he claims any firearm that was fingerprinted was used because otherwise the police would not have fingerprinted it.  Thus instead of using the scientific test of matching the projectiles and spent cases to the weapon they were fired from, he uses the fanciful notion that police were omniscient and simply knew which weapons were used and fingerprinted all those used.

[Jane]

You left out that he claims any firearm that was fingerprinted was used because otherwise the police would not have fingerprinted it.  Thus instead of using the scientific test of matching the projectiles and spent cases to the weapon they were fired from, he uses the fanciful notion that police were omniscient and simply knew which weapons were used and fingerprinted all those used.

Ooops!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jane]

that is funny jane youre very witty.love reading your posts.keep up the good work.

You're very kind, Sami.......................sadly, I don't think Adam would agree

[sami]

  I thought this had been cleared up and all been through several times David, she is looking at the kitchen side and the door that the police made an entry through, the bedroom she is looking at is the box room.

thank you justice.now does that also means the photo mike and david keep mentioning the rifle is in the master bedroom.ie.nevill and junes room.if yes than its like i said that photo proves nothing.

[lemonhead]

You're very kind, Sami.......................sadly, I don't think Adam would agree

Go post in a thread Adam started so he can take credit for your work.

[mike tesko]

  I thought this had been cleared up and all been through several times David, she is looking at the kitchen side and the door that the police made an entry through, the bedroom she is looking at is the box room.

I am satisfied at 'this' stage, that WPC Julia Jeapes, saw the rifle when it first appeared at one of the first floor windows, at 7.15am, that 'it' was the ' box room window', to which she was referring to. I argued until I was blue in the face that she had seen the rifle resting against the inside of the main bedroom window, but the truth is she saw it inside the box room window...

The real truth which many appear unable to grasp, is 'how' and under what circumstance, did 'that' rifle from its 'starting position' at the box room window, find its way onto Sheila's body, after 10.13am, when just prior to police photographing 'it' on her body as per crime scene photographs, numbered, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 and 33, 'the rifle' was 'photographed' leaning at the inside of the main bedroom window, as per crime scene photograph, No. 23...

We therefore know, with absolute certainty, that 'the' anshuzt rifle, had been 'resting' against the box room window at 7.15am, that at around 10.13am it had found its way to 'its' place against the main bedroom window, as per photo' No. 23, before eventually ending up on top of Sheila's body a short time later, to enable PC Bird to take photographs, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 and 33, now showing 'that very same rifle', upon Sheila's body, designed to show how she 'had' taken her own life...

Clearly, without doubt, the rifle which is being said to have fired 'both of the bullets' that injured and killed Sheila Caffell, had journeyed from the box room window, at around 7.15am, to main bedroom window, at 10.13am, and then onto Sheila's body, afterwards...