Author Topic: reasonable doubt  (Read 32084 times)

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Offline Caroline

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Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2015, 11:58:PM »
I find your reasoning behind finding Jeremy guilty based on that photograph rather irrational, If I was to show you crime scene photographs of male victims of female killers more gruesome than that of Neville Bamber then what would you think? That they had nothing to do with this case! And you still haven't answered why there is no blood spatter on Sheila's nightdress.

Sounds like an emotional judgment rather than a logical one. Like wise!

I do know, and if you read my posts you will know that reasonable if not serious doubt can be put on all the other circumstantial evidence. If I read YOUR posts? You're an authority? You have an opinion like the rest of us - I don't agree with it.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline lebaleb

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Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2015, 07:26:AM »

The person's mental state is irrelevant. One can attempt a conversation with whomsoever they choose. If the person chooses not to respond, a conversation cannot be said to have occurred.

Yes, I agree. So the police saying 'in conversation' and 'no response' are contradictory.

Offline lebaleb

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Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2015, 07:28:AM »
No blood splatter on Sheila's nightdress could be because she wasn't wearing it during the murders.

guest7363

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Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2015, 07:59:AM »
No blood splatter on Sheila's nightdress could be because she wasn't wearing it during the murders.
What was she wearing then?  There would have been some other item of clothing with blood splatter on.

Offline lebaleb

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Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #49 on: December 12, 2015, 08:52:AM »
What was she wearing then?  There would have been some other item of clothing with blood splatter on.

She could easily have been naked or in her underwear.

Offline Adam

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Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #50 on: December 12, 2015, 09:40:AM »
How many exactly is "too many"? Five? Fifteen? When you happen to have lost count? Your wording reminds me of reasoning about "Ley lines", where people assert that too many of these lines have been found for it to be just a coincidence that they connect special sites. If JM had been questioned 300 times instead of 30, would that be "too many"?

Well there are around 30 pieces of forensic evidence incriminating Bamber.  Eighteen link Bamber directly to the scene.

Do you believe that is enough ?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 09:43:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #51 on: December 12, 2015, 10:04:AM »
Name the 30 pieces of forensic evidence !!

Offline Adam

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Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #52 on: December 12, 2015, 10:12:AM »
I expect circumstantial evidence raises its head in a lot of cases but maybe without all the descrepancies and blunde,  the police made.

its very unsettling this case.  The moderator played a big part and  i dont see why if he was staging the scene and had used the moderator he didnt simply toss it on the floor near shiela.take it off and put it back in the box in the cupboard makes no sense.

Too many things dont make sense and i would need to see all the trial transcripts on this to have a clearer opinion.

in the meantime im sitting on the fence.

Bamber shot everyone and Sheila with the silencer attached.

He either knew beforehand the silencer had to be taken off prior to putting it on Sheila. Or he realised at the time.

So it was either a planned or spur of the moment decision to put it away, inside a box, virtually out of site at the back of the gun cupboard.

I doubt he gave me it much thought at the time. Not being aware of back splatter. And not expecting the relatives to carry out a search.

The reason he put it away was because he wanted it to look like the massacre was carried out without a silencer. Sheila had zero experience with a rifle, people may ask how she was able to work out how to take it off in her rage.

Bamber was much more likely to commit the massacre with a silencer. Having it on display next to Sheila will give people more reason to be suspicious. They would say Bamber committed the massacre with the silencer attached, then took it off because he had to, after shooting Sheila.

The most unlikely reason he put it away, is because he was aware of back splatter. So knew there was a chance the police would test it. Which would leave Bamber banged to rights. But surely he would throw it away, wouldn't he ?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 10:14:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2015, 10:15:AM »
30 pieces of forensic please !! Name them. I'm not giving up.

Offline Adam

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Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2015, 10:17:AM »
Evidence placing Bamber at the scene: 

The silencer. 

The bible landing on top of Sheila's blood. 

Sheila's legs being pulled after the second shot. 

The 14 reasons why Sheila could not have committed the massacre. 


The forensic evidence that points more towards Bamber:

The chambering and loading of the rifle. 

Neville's brutal beating. 

The bike being taken just before the massacre. 

June being shot while in bed and almost certainly asleep. 

The twins not waking. 

The time Sheila had between the phone call and the police arriving to achieve what she did. 

The found hacksaw. 

The hacksaw marks on the bathroom window. 

No one being able to explain how Sheila committed the massacre to match the crime scene. 

Bamber's telephone call to the police. 


Forensic evidence showing an opportunity: 

The lockable from outside kitchen window. 

The access into WHF via the bathroom window. 

The time. The massacre time was the best opportunity for an execution to be successful. 
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #55 on: December 12, 2015, 10:18:AM »
Apart from Sheila being at the scene with a gun across her, I cannot think of any other forensic evidence against her. 

No injuries, marks or damage to her or her nightie. No oil or gun residue on her hands and nothing on her feet. 

Certainly not what you would expect from someone who had chambered and reloaded a rifle, twice, as well as shoot people in three different rooms  and have a brutal fight with someone twice as big as her. 

Supporters agree with this and have suggested that Sheila did a ritualistic clean before shooting herself. However she would not have had time to do this and everything else between Neville's call to Bamber and the police arriving. 

The crime scene strongly favours Bamber as the killer rather than Sheila. June and the twins not waking and Neville refusing to put up a fight until being shot four times upstairs, amazingly  choosing to ring Bamber instead. Then of course there is the other forensic evidence in my recent thread

No one has been able to give a credible way how Sheila could have committed the massacre to match the forensic evidence. While me, CAL and the police have been able to this for Bamber. My scenario taking five minutes to work out. 
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #56 on: December 12, 2015, 10:21:AM »
That's not evidence. It's what YOU'VE cobbled up parrot fashion. I'm talking forensic science not supposition

guest7363

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Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #57 on: December 12, 2015, 10:21:AM »
She could easily have been naked or in her underwear.
Why not shoot herself in her underwear, or naked, so your saying she ran about the house naked killing everyone, fought and battered Neville naked then showered put her nightie on and shot her self.

Offline lookout

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Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #58 on: December 12, 2015, 10:28:AM »
That's not impossible in someone who isn't in their right mind. They lose all sense of reality and if this had been the case then Sheila was far more ill than I ever thought because these were the actions of some of the women that I encountered when working at the mental hospital ( asylum as it was known in the '50's )

Offline lookout

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Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #59 on: December 12, 2015, 10:30:AM »
Unless anyone here has worked in one ( asylum ) then nobody's in a position to dispute my facts.