Author Topic: reasonable doubt  (Read 32348 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline notsure

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1684
reasonable doubt
« on: December 10, 2015, 07:41:PM »
Just some of the reasons i have doubt

Police in conversation with someone inside the house
police used loudhailer then called for back up
one dead male and one dead female upon entry
sighting of someone in the window
non disclosure
statements re written
2 investigations
shielas diagnoses and history of mental illness
destruction of evidence by poluce both a few dwys after the incident and also many years later
peter suthersts expert evidence on photographs of paint
expert evidence on the moderator not being on the rifle
32 interviews with julie mugford
anne eaton lying


i could go on but i wanted to explain why i have so many doubts and for every point made against him regarding any of the above an expert can argue against it,


Offline notsure

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1684
Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2015, 07:43:PM »
Dont think i will ever know for sure based on whst we know. But i dont think he will ge getting out any time soon.

guest154

  • Guest
Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2015, 08:56:PM »
Notusre, those are some VERY poor reasons to have doubt... I thought you knew more about the case than what the above post shows.




Police in conversation with someone inside the house


I guess that you don't care about the rest of that sentence? You know... the bit where they say "NO RESPONSE".


one dead male and one dead female upon entry


Clearly explained at the time. It was recorded wrong. If there were two dead bodies there, then there would have been blood left behind. Bodies bleed when shot, no evidence of anyone else in the kitchen other than Neville. June died in the bedroom, Sheila didn't move after being shot - so who is this mystery body?




non disclosure


Of what?

Just some of the reasons i have doubt

Police in conversation with someone inside the house
police used loudhailer then called for back up
one dead male and one dead female upon entry
sighting of someone in the window
non disclosure
statements re written
2 investigations
shielas diagnoses and history of mental illness
destruction of evidence by poluce both a few dwys after the incident and also many years later
peter suthersts expert evidence on photographs of paint
expert evidence on the moderator not being on the rifle
32 interviews with julie mugford
anne eaton lying


i could go on but i wanted to explain why i have so many doubts and for every point made against him regarding any of the above an expert can argue against it,


Just some of the reasons i have doubt

Police in conversation with someone inside the house
police used loudhailer then called for back up
one dead male and one dead female upon entry
sighting of someone in the window
non disclosure
statements re written
2 investigations
shielas diagnoses and history of mental illness
destruction of evidence by poluce both a few dwys after the incident and also many years later
peter suthersts expert evidence on photographs of paint
expert evidence on the moderator not being on the rifle
32 interviews with julie mugford
anne eaton lying


i could go on but i wanted to explain why i have so many doubts and for every point made against him regarding any of the above an expert can argue against it,






peter suthersts expert evidence on photographs of paint


His rejected claims?   ;D

As for the rest such as "Ann lying" and 32 interviews with JM, not really worth answering really as
1. You're not clear on what Ann is supposed to have lied about & she has never been shown as a liar, so it's a bit general.
2. What are you basing 32 interviews with JM as being a high number against? Compared to what?

Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 13779
Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2015, 09:19:PM »
Notusre, those are some VERY poor reasons to have doubt... I thought you knew more about the case than what the above post shows.


Some of them are very good. Non disclosure, Destruction of evidence and the Forensic reports from the US

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44321
Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2015, 06:57:AM »
All of these points have had threads on and been dismissed.

Surely no one believes there were conversations inside WHF or a body was  seen moving. Anyway there are threads on these. 

However AE apparently lying I would like to know more about.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 07:02:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Caroline

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 27076
Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2015, 11:28:AM »
Just some of the reasons i have doubt

Police in conversation with someone inside the house - 'was met with NO RESPONSE' The person who wrote that wasn't at the scene
police used loudhailer then called for back up because there was no answer and Jeremy had told them there was a CRAZY armed person inside
one dead male and one dead female upon entry This has been explained numerous times and given that Sheila couldn't have walked after the first shot, it's ridiculous to suggest she escaped back upstairs to shoot herself again.
sighting of someone in the window - Well only Jeremy is claiming this
non disclosure - All trials have non-disclosure on both sides
statements re written - which ones?
2 investigations - Why wouldn't there be? There were two suspects.
shielas diagnoses and history of mental illness - Which Jeremy used to HIS ADVANTAGE
destruction of evidence by poluce both a few dwys after the incident and also many years later - It shouldn't have been
peter suthersts expert evidence on photographs of paint - Which was discredited
expert evidence on the moderator not being on the rifle - Well people know what I think about the silencer but Jeremy is STILL guilty
32 interviews with julie mugford - star expert witness? Don't think there is anything unusual about that.
anne eaton lying - about what?


i could go on but i wanted to explain why i have so many doubts and for every point made against him regarding any of the above an expert can argue against it,
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 13779
Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2015, 12:24:PM »
Well people know what I think about the silencer but Jeremy is STILL guilty

Caroline the only exhibit that holds the case against Jeremy is the silencer. without it there is no proof what so ever he is guilty, If you recall Scipio's arguments (Who is a Lawyer) it was the basis for every argument he made for Jeremy's guilt. Its also the only convincing argument I can make for his guilt also. Without the sound-moderator the case collapses.

Every opinion and rumour is influenced by the silencer. If it was proven to have been a forgery then this is what will happen to the prosecution case.


Offline Caroline

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 27076
Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2015, 12:32:PM »
Caroline the only exhibit that holds the case against Jeremy is the silencer. without it there is no proof what so ever he is guilty, If you recall Scipio's arguments (Who is a Lawyer) it was the basis for every argument he made for Jeremy's guilt. Its also the only convincing argument I can make for his guilt also. Without the sound-moderator the case collapses.

Every opinion and rumour is influenced by the silencer. If it was proven to have been a forgery then this is what will happen to the prosecution case.



What has Skipio's argument got to do with me? That's not my argument! I'm happy with the circumstantial evidence, I think it's overwhelming and even without the silencer, he looks as guilty as sin. Comes down to who you believe, Jeremy or Julie and I don't believe Jeremy.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44321
Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2015, 12:42:PM »
Caroline the only exhibit that holds the case against Jeremy is the silencer. without it there is no proof what so ever he is guilty, If you recall Scipio's arguments (Who is a Lawyer) it was the basis for every argument he made for Jeremy's guilt. Its also the only convincing argument I can make for his guilt also. Without the sound-moderator the case collapses.

Every opinion and rumour is influenced by the silencer. If it was proven to have been a forgery then this is what will happen to the prosecution case.



Well there is a mountain of forensic evidence which incriminates Bamber. A lot putting Bamber at the scene. As my recent thread showed.

There is no evidence showing it was Sheila. Apart from a rifle laying across her. After she had apparently shot herself. Twice. Most of the evidence regarding Sheila shows it was not her, again incriminating Bamber.

It is surprising that people keep claiming the silencer is the only forensic evidence. Perhaps people believe if they say it enough times, it will become fact.  Anyway the silencer is enough, there is no evidence it was tampered with.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 12:47:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44321
Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2015, 12:46:PM »
I wonder what more forensic evidence is out there that incriminates Bamber. Probably loads.

No one had mentioned Sheila's legs being pulled until after the second shot before. Certainly not Bamber. I was fortunate enough to see it in the 2002 COA report.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Caroline

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 27076
Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2015, 12:46:PM »
Well there is a mountain of forensic evidence which incriminates Bamber. A lot putting Bamber at the scene. As my recent thread showed.

There is no evidence showing it was Sheila. Apart from a rifle laying across her.
After she had apparently shot herself. Twice. Most of the evidence regarding Sheila shows it was not her, again incriminating Bamber.

It is surprising that people keep claiming the silencer is the only forensic evidence. Perhaps people believe if they say enough times, it will become fact.  Anyway the silencer is enough, there is no evidence it was tampered with.

Exactly! No evidence it was Sheila and by the very nature of the 'phone call' the perp was either Jeremy or Sheila. It wasn't Sheila so that just leaves who? Hmmmmm?  ;)
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44321
Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2015, 01:00:PM »
The publicity often generated by supporters regarding evidence, is just about the silencer. This is a big piece of evidence, and the easiest thing  to manipulate as it was found by the relatives after the police didn't find it. But there is nothing sinister here. 
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 01:02:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 13779
Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2015, 01:12:PM »
What has Skipio's argument got to do with me? That's not my argument!
[/quote]

It shows how important the silencer is to establishing guilt.

I'm happy with the circumstantial evidence, I think it's overwhelming and even without the silencer,
The only circumstancial evidence is the silencer being in the gun cupboard and not on the end of the gun.


he looks as guilty as sin.

And what is a guilty person supposed to look like?  ::)   


Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 13779
Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2015, 01:21:PM »
Well there is a mountain of forensic evidence which incriminates Bamber. A lot putting Bamber at the scene. As my recent thread showed.

Doubt can be put on all the claims you have made is I previously mentioned

It is surprising that people keep claiming the silencer is the only forensic evidence. Perhaps people believe if they say it enough times, it will become fact.

Its the core of the crown prosecution case in 1986 and the basis of the 2002 appeal. It all rests on the silencer.

Anyway the silencer is enough, there is no evidence it was tampered with.

The reports by Dr. David R. Fowler and Philip Boyce indicates otherwise.

Offline Caroline

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 27076
Re: reasonable doubt
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2015, 01:45:PM »
Doubt can be put on all the claims you have made is I previously mentioned

Its the core of the crown prosecution case in 1986 and the basis of the 2002 appeal. It all rests on the silencer.

The reports by Dr. David R. Fowler and Philip Boyce indicates otherwise.

And Julie Mugford's evidence.
Few people have the imagination for reality