Main planks of the innocence stance. Plausible or laughable ?

[Jan]

Jan would be the first to admit she lied about me. Saying I don't like other posters creating threads. I can only think it was to goad me.

I did make two requests for the post to be removed but got no response.

I wasn't banned for suggesting Jan lied. Two moderators confirmed to me it is acceptable to say this, after I had previously reported Lookout for calling me a liar.

You will have to ask the moderator, as my post on the 'we talk and talk' thread says I am not aware why I got banned.

 

you are funny Adam .

[notsure]

Adam

Im not really sure why you ask anyone to explain how shiela did it. It would all be assumption wouldnt it as shes not here to tell us.

i will say this though and that is that she could have very well shot the whole of her family during one of her episodes.  She was a seriously ill person and during one of these episodes could have overpowered neville with ease.

this poor girl had spent months in hospital, i believe she could be violent too, as ermani (sorry if i have his name wrong) said.

she just lost it, went and shot her children then went and shot her mum and dad. Her dad was shot but he was able to call jeremy, she came into the kitchen and she killed him.

She could have re loaded after she had shot her children.

Oh i know you would like me to into arguing all the points raised against this theory but why can it not be as simple as this.

julie lied, the blood evidence is rubbish. The family wanted the money and land and businesses

there you go! Got to go now cos im off out .

[Jane]

Adam

Im not really sure why you ask anyone to explain how shiela did it. It would all be assumption wouldnt it as shes not here to tell us.

i will say this though and that is that she could have very well shot the whole of her family during one of her episodes.  She was a seriously ill person and during one of these episodes could have overpowered neville with ease.

this poor girl had spent months in hospital, i believe she could be violent too, as ermani (sorry if i have his name wrong) said.

she just lost it, went and shot her children then went and shot her mum and dad. Her dad was shot but he was able to call jeremy, she came into the kitchen and she killed him.

She could have re loaded after she had shot her children.

Oh i know you would like me to into arguing all the points raised against this theory but why can it not be as simple as this.

julie lied, the blood evidence is rubbish. The family wanted the money and land and businesses

there you go! Got to go now cos im off out .

Where did you read that Sheila had spent "months" in hospital. I understand that apart from being hospitalized during her pregnancy, she spent two periods of six(?) and four(?) weeks in the psych clinic.

No one has every said Sheila was violent. Freddie said he was afraid for his safety but Sheila didn't actually do anything to him or any other person and someone would certainly have come forward had she.

Like you require proof of Julie telling the truth, I require proof of Nevill's call to Jeremy.

[Steve_uk]

Adam

Im not really sure why you ask anyone to explain how shiela did it. It would all be assumption wouldnt it as shes not here to tell us.

i will say this though and that is that she could have very well shot the whole of her family during one of her episodes.  She was a seriously ill person and during one of these episodes could have overpowered neville with ease.

this poor girl had spent months in hospital, i believe she could be violent too, as ermani (sorry if i have his name wrong) said.

she just lost it, went and shot her children then went and shot her mum and dad. Her dad was shot but he was able to call jeremy, she came into the kitchen and she killed him.

She could have re loaded after she had shot her children.

Oh i know you would like me to into arguing all the points raised against this theory but why can it not be as simple as this.

julie lied, the blood evidence is rubbish. The family wanted the money and land and businesses

there you go! Got to go now cos im off out .

The sights and silencer were removed from the gun shortly before the murders. Was it established that they were attached to the gun on the Tuesday night whilst Jeremy was attempting to shoot rabbits? If not who removed them? It's beyond the realms of possibility that Sheila in a psychotic episode took a screwdriver and attempted this herself.

[lookout]

Neither were attached when Jeremy left.

[Jan]

Where did you read that Sheila had spent "months" in hospital. I understand that apart from being hospitalized during her pregnancy, she spent two periods of six(?) and four(?) weeks in the psych clinic.

No one has every said Sheila was violent. Freddie said he was afraid for his safety but Sheila didn't actually do anything to him or any other person and someone would certainly have come forward had she.

Like you require proof of Julie telling the truth, I require proof of Nevill's call to Jeremy.

to be fair colin did say there was violence under the surface and if you are going to accept Jeremy was going to commit murder with no previous violence the same must apply to Sheila.And she herself said she felt she was a danger to her children - and we have no idea whether Jeremy knew that or not.

[lookout]

Sheila did her best to explain that she could do damage------------but nobody listened. It's what's happening to this day. These are the kind of threats that should never be taken lightly or ignored. It's a patient's cry for help.

[Jane]

to be fair colin did say there was violence under the surface and if you are going to accept Jeremy was going to commit murder with no previous violence the same must apply to Sheila.And she herself said she felt she was a danger to her children - and we have no idea whether Jeremy knew that or not.

Presumably Colin never saw "violence UNDER the surface" rise to the surface. Certainly, prior to being placed on medication -during her FIRST admission- Sheila did voice her concerns about being a danger to her children. Was this ever defined as physical or emotional danger? She said nothing about fearing this "danger" during her second admission. Sheila seemed quite capable of giving expression to her anger. There are no stories of Jeremy venting his, even when it may have been justified.

[Jan]

The sights and silencer were removed from the gun shortly before the murders. Was it established that they were attached to the gun on the Tuesday night whilst Jeremy was attempting to shoot rabbits? If not who removed them? It's beyond the realms of possibility that Sheila in a psychotic episode took a screwdriver and attempted this herself.

As far as I know Jeremy said neither the sights or moderator were on when he went out to shoot the rabbits.

If he was intending to use the moderator as part of his plan you would have thought he would have said it was on - then take it off to shoot Sheila and leave it by the side of her body as if she had taken it off.

I can not see why the sight being on or off would have made any difference to shooting people at close range .

[Caroline]

to be fair colin did say there was violence under the surface and if you are going to accept Jeremy was going to commit murder with no previous violence the same must apply to Sheila.And she herself said she felt she was a danger to her children - and we have no idea whether Jeremy knew that or not.

I have never said it wasn't physically possible for Sheila to have committed the murders. However, a person in the throws of psychosis doesn't use a weapon that is unfamiliar to them, they pick up with whatever is closest - they don't spend 5-10 minutes making sure they know what to push, pull or turn in order to get the weapon to operate.

[Jan]

I have never said it wasn't physically possible for Sheila to have committed the murders. However, a person in the throws of psychosis doesn't use a weapon that is unfamiliar to them, they pick up with whatever is closest - they don't spend 5-10 minutes making sure they know what to push, pull or turn in order to get the weapon to operate.

I appreciate your comments - but I have seen others who have said it was an easy weapon to use - and how do we now that if Neville was beaten with the gun that it might not have been damaged and that explained why in test it becameharder to load.

The CAL book explained about the missing ammunition much better than Skippys long winded explanation - and as far as I know that question has never been answered?

remember the alleged comment by one of the family that Jeremy was showing Sheila how to fire the gun? If that was true how do we know that she did not ask how to use the gun?

[Caroline]

I appreciate your comments - but I have seen others who have said it was an easy weapon to use - and how do we now that if Neville was beaten with the gun that it might not have been damaged and that explained why in test it becameharder to load.

The CAL book explained about the missing ammunition much better than Skippys long winded explanation - and as far as I know that question has never been answered?

remember the alleged comment by one of the family that Jeremy was showing Sheila how to fire the gun? If that was true how do we know that she did not ask how to use the gun?

Lots of 'if's' Jan. However, I believe that the comment only indicated that Jeremy 'wanted' to show her how to fire the gun - not that he actually did. I think before making comment either way, we need to clarify what the claim was - think it came from RB?

[Jan]

Lots of 'if's' Jan. However, I believe that the comment only indicated that Jeremy 'wanted' to show her how to fire the gun - not that he actually did. I think before making comment either way, we need to clarify what the claim was - think it came from RB?

I think RB / Anne / ? said that june had told him she saw Jeremy showing Sheila how to use the gun - but it was pretty flaky and I think it was said that Sheila declined?

 TBH I dont think it was very clear . Perhaps JB was encouraging Sheila to shoot the family for his gain?
 

[Adam]

Adam

Im not really sure why you ask anyone to explain how shiela did it. It would all be assumption wouldnt it as shes not here to tell us.

i will say this though and that is that she could have very well shot the whole of her family during one of her episodes.  She was a seriously ill person and during one of these episodes could have overpowered neville with ease.

this poor girl had spent months in hospital, i believe she could be violent too, as ermani (sorry if i have his name wrong) said.

she just lost it, went and shot her children then went and shot her mum and dad. Her dad was shot but he was able to call jeremy, she came into the kitchen and she killed him.

She could have re loaded after she had shot her children.

Oh i know you would like me to into arguing all the points raised against this theory but why can it not be as simple as this.

julie lied, the blood evidence is rubbish. The family wanted the money and land and businesses

there you go! Got to go now cos im off out .

At what point do you think Neville phoned Jeremy and the police ? He couldn't speak after his bedroom shots. What is the point of spending up to ten minutes phoning Bamber after Sheila has started shooting ?

Sheila was a recovering anorexic, Neville 6.4 and about 15 stone. At what point did Sheila 'overpower Neville with ease'  and not get a mark on her ?

Julie lied ? I've heard of little white lies, but that was a big one.  Even Bamber's lawyers said her WS had a 'ring of truth' to it.

The blood evidence is rubbish. Evidence please.

But thank you for an attempt. Although it was very vague. My explanation of how Bamber did it was point by point and fits the crime scene.

[Adam]

The  main thing supporters dispute about my point by point explanation is how he managed to successfully get Sheila to allow to be shot.

My recent posts have shown it is almost certain she did not wake up prior to it being her turn. A silencer makes the rifle almost silent, while the kitchen fight was downstairs in a big house.

So while half asleep Bamber got her to get out of bed and move her about 20 feet. She was either persuaded, lead at gunpoint, carried or a combination of all three.

There is no proof Sheila didn't resist a little bit. Bamber did need two shots.