Anglolawyer's theory

[Jane]

Of course t isn'r and it hasn't been altered.

 Durrrh!!!!!!! Lookout's accused EP of many things, but accusing them of employing jiggery-pokery by turning "heating" into "hoating" is stretching credibility WAY beyond the limits

[Caroline]

 Durrrh!!!!!!! Lookout's accused EP of many things, but accusing them of employing jiggery-pokery by turning "heating" into "hoating" is stretching credibility WAY beyond the limits

It's quite warm here tonight - think I'll turn the hoating down! 

[Jane]

It's quite warm here tonight - think I'll turn the hoating down! 

It wouldn't do to get over hoated, would it?

[notsure]

[quote author=scipio_usmc link=topic=7114.msg335542#msg335542

i dont believe her version. Just the fact you recieve a phone call in the middle of the night would alert you. Ive hsd a phone call in the middle of the night, several in fact and i can tell you, you immedtiately think god whats happened.

i simply do not believe her.

Pisting what she said scipio only confirms my thoughts on this.

[Jane]

[quote author=scipio_usmc link=topic=7114.msg335542#msg335542

i dont believe her version. Just the fact you recieve a phone call in the middle of the night would alert you. Ive hsd a phone call in the middle of the night, several in fact and i can tell you, you immedtiately think god whats happened.

i simply do not believe her.

Pisting what she said scipio only confirms my thoughts on this.

Don't know whose version you don't believe but agree that when one get one of THOSE calls at THAT time of night, one reacts. I, too, have, sadly, received several. Believe me, it was a**e in gear before eyes were open.

[notsure]

Don't know whose version you don't believe but agree that when one get one of THOSE calls at THAT time of night, one reacts. I, too, have, sadly, received several. Believe me, it was a**e in gear before eyes were open.

it was julies version i didnt believe, scipio thinks she was too tired to wake up and realised only when she had told him to go back to bed and had 5 minutes to think about it did she becone worried. Load of bull in my opinion.

[Jane]

it was julies version i didnt believe, scipio thinks she was too tired to wake up and realised only when she had told him to go back to bed and had 5 minutes to think about it did she becone worried. Load of bull in my opinion.

Well, as none of us was there it means that anything is possible........................but I prefer my version

[Caroline]

[quote author=scipio_usmc link=topic=7114.msg335542#msg335542

i dont believe her version. Just the fact you recieve a phone call in the middle of the night would alert you. Ive hsd a phone call in the middle of the night, several in fact and i can tell you, you immedtiately think god whats happened.

i simply do not believe her.

Pisting what she said scipio only confirms my thoughts on this.

But you believe Jeremy and don't question why he didn't call 999 after being told "Sheila has gone crazy, she's got the gun"? 

[Anglolawyer]

I already referred you to this thread where Mike said it says heating:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6419.msg283310.html#msg283310

Unlike most here you actually trust Mike so why don't you ask him about it.  He has seen it close up and the other documents related to it which he declined to post.

Why are there documents which someone declines to post?   One of the reasons I registered here (or tried to register only to find I had already done so) was to enlarge my search for documents.   There seem to be many crucial documents missing.   I would particularly like to read transcripts of Bamber's and Mugford's trial evidence but I am sure there is much more.   If Mike Tesko happens by this thread and reads this maybe he would explain why there has not been a full upload of all case-related material.   Or maybe someone else knows.

[nugnug]

it was julies version i didnt believe, scipio thinks she was too tired to wake up and realised only when she had told him to go back to bed and had 5 minutes to think about it did she becone worried. Load of bull in my opinion.

could of been becouse she was tired but them excuse could aply to bamber as well.

[mike tesko]

I will try and upload some new material from the 50,000 documents in my possession. These documents came into my possession after the 2002 appeal hearing, and would have been destroyed but for me agreeing to take possession of them. I made sure through agreement with Jeremy, that the documents would belong to me, and that I would provide copies of any of these documents if and when he required them. It was a case of agree to these terms, or it would all have been destroyed either by fire, or thrown away along with the original keepers domestic rubbish. Since then Jeremy says he has a second copy of all the material that I have got, so there was no need for me to copy any more of it to him. I can't believe that Jeremy has got a copy of everything I was given, because he never saw all the material the former keeper had been keeping. Amongst this material, now in my possession are some original hand written, and or, signed documents, which may never have been copied at all whilst it was in storage by the former keeper. Anyway, I will do my best to upload as much of this material as I can...

[lookout]

Some documents didn't come to light until 2004. I assume they were also omitted from the trial itself ?

[Adam]

My take on this case is provisionally pro-guilt.   'Provisionally' because there is a lot of material I haven't seen.   I would particularly like to read transcripts of Bamber's and Mugford's trial evidence and to see a complete and reliably-sourced set of the crime scene photos.

My principal reasons for favouring guilt are Mugford's evidence, which I see as credible, even though she had ample reason to lie, the unexplained delay in calling the police and the failure to call 999.   Mugford makes better sense if she was involved in the murders as an accomplice.   That reconciles the peculiar duality of her behaviour and her account.   For instance, the temazapam story in which, knowing why he wanted to test it on himself she allowed him to do so.   In my opinion, she very likely sourced the temazapam specifically at his request but slightly modified the story for the benefit of the cops.

Likewise, the phone call to her at whatever time it was on the morning on 07 Aug is likely to have been a ruse to provide him with some kind of alibi.   Her account of it makes no sense at all.   She says he said, 'there is something wrong at the farm, everything is going well'.   The first part of that is likely what they agreed she would say he said, something ambiguous to give the impression he had not received a clear and distinct message from Neville.   Since he had told her earlier 'tonight's the night' 'something wrong at the farm' would mean the plan had backfired or failed in some way, not that an unexpected emergency had arisen there.

Her involvement also better explains her hesitancy in coming forward.   She took an enormous gamble in doing that.   The police might have decided to go after her too or she might have faced liability for malicious prosecution.   I don't think being jilted was enough to explain her actions.

Anyway, if she made up her account, she sure did a bad job of keeping herself out of it.   Even taken at face value she was admitting very serious offences involving concealment and assistance following the crime.  It is remarkable that she was not prosecuted for those but, maybe not, as it was in nobody's interests to pursue the question of her involvement - not Bamber's and not the cops'.

Whether Bamber received a fair trial is a separate and important question on which I have not formed a strong opinion due to not reading enough about it.   I've read the 2002 appeal which describes and then dismisses a litany of errors and inadequacies in the conduct of the case.   There are substantial concerns about the provenance of 'the' moderator, the state of Sheila's body when found and so on.   It beggars belief that the scene was cleared of blood stained carpet and wallpaper the next day and the cretinous fumbling of Essex police, even to the extent of being unable to write down the time correctly, is truly staggering.

Nonetheless, through all that fog of blundering incompetence and perhaps worse, the theory that seems to fit best is that he did it with her knowledge and assistance as far as the alibi is concerned.   That's where I am with this one.

Wilkes's book has a lot of trial transcript. There is also a thread on Bamber's court testimony.

Why would Bamber ring Julie at 3am for an alibi. Then tell the police 'no comment' when they asked him why he telephoned her ? He already had alibi's, ringing the police from his home, arriving after the police with all doors and windows locked.

Bamber saying 'something's wrong at the farm', means just that. There is something wrong, he instigated it and now he's going to assist the police.

Agree Julie doing what she did because she was jilted is a creepy view. Threads created.

There is also a thread on the trial. Don't see what was unfair about it myself. Bamber has had 30 years to nit pick. But nothing really has come up.

Did the police remove carpets the following day ? Thought it was several days later, with Bamber's permission. None of the carpets would have Bamber's blood. He was padded up and not injured.

[notsure]

But you believe Jeremy and don't question why he didn't call 999 after being told "Sheila has gone crazy, she's got the gun"? 

yes thats a problem for me caroline and its one of the reasons i cannot be completely sure. I dont have a problem with him not calling 999, i think that would be something u would need to mull over for a few minutes before deciding what to do. I am the sort of person that would be frightened to call the police in case it turned out to be nothing.

Imo julie wanted him to get in trouble then it went too far and she had to save herself from being presecuted .

[Caroline]

yes thats a problem for me caroline and its one of the reasons i cannot be completely sure. I dont have a problem with him not calling 999, i think that would be something u would need to mull over for a few minutes before deciding what to do. I am the sort of person that would be frightened to call the police in case it turned out to be nothing.

Imo julie wanted him to get in trouble then it went too far and she had to save herself from being presecuted .

Sorry Notsure, I don't understand your thinking at all.