Anglolawyer's theory

[lookout]

But why has he never pleaded with her, why no denouncement and continual attack on her because she did put him in jail, there is little doubt about this. I cannot understand his attitude to JM, if she has lied and stolen his life from him.

There wouldn't have been any point on his part to have verbally attacked her it could well have worsened his case more so. He probably couldn't understand why she'd said what she did,without cause.
He didn't imagine in his wildest dreams that he would have been blamed and imprisoned for as long as he has,or even at all.
Has Julie put it in writing that he's guilty ?

[lookout]

It may not be your intention, Lookout, but it's how your posts read. You are unforgiving of everyone involved, BUT Jeremy, and for him you appear to pull out every excuse in the book.

They're bound to look like excuses to you and everyone else who sees him guilty,so surely I too am with in my right to support him when I know he's innocent and am entitled to my say ?

[lookout]

Your so-called facts are also excuses as far as I'm concerned with heaps of nit-picking thrown in for good measure but I don't pass remarks or pull you up with every post you make.

[Anglolawyer]

As you well know this is not a law that requires people who believe/know someone is guilty to tell police all the information they possess.  It simply makes it illegal to provide a false alibi, to help destroy evidence or to otherwise lie to cover for the person.  This provision is essentially the same as perverting justice.  It doesn't expand liability to situations beyond those covered by perverting justice.

The only issue where she potentially could have lied to protect Jeremy is regarding the phone call.  If she knew Jeremy didn't receive a call from Nevill and agreed to lie saying he called her to say he received a call from Nevill and it worried him then telling police he said he received a call from Nevill and it worried him would amount to lying to aid him escape liability.  Similarly if he told her over the phone that he  killed them all and she made up that he told her he was worried because something was wrong at the farm then that is lying to help him escape liability.  This is the only thing she initially spoke to police about where they could try to nail her.

Naturally her account is that he told her he received a call from Nevill she didn't know he made it up at the time he spoke to police.  The only one who could contradict her is Jeremy and he would have to admit his own guilt to contradict her so it will never happen.

On page 2 of her 08 Aug statement she says (truthfully) they spoke on the evening of 06 Aug and said (untruthfully) he made no mention of his family other than that he had had dinner with them.   She committed the offence right there.   Further, on the same page of her statement, she refers to the call in the early hours of 07 Aug and failed to mention that he said 'everything's going well'.   IOW she had clear and relevant information concerning his involvement which she concealed by lying.   

[Jane]

There wouldn't have been any point on his part to have verbally attacked her it could well have worsened his case more so. He probably couldn't understand why she'd said what she did,without cause.
He didn't imagine in his wildest dreams that he would have been blamed and imprisoned for as long as he has,or even at all.
Has Julie put it in writing that he's guilty ?

There is no need, as things stand now, for Julie to have any further involvement with the Bamber case. Why would she wish to draw attention to her past when there are probably very few who are aware of what she was doing 30 years ago in another country. Saying absolutely nothing would be the intelligent thing to do, not just for her own sake, but for that of her husband and children but her family who still live here.

[Caroline]

There is nothing to suggest she was lying about providing him with the sleeping pills to use on himself to help him sleep because he was having sleeping problems. His misinterpretation of her doing so to help aid him provided insight into his mind though- he thought she was on his side with respect to the murders even though she told him to stop talking about it.

He had an earlier plan to kill the family and it involved giving them sleeping pills;  so are you saying that Julie gets sleeping pills from her doctor saying she had trouble sleeping but gives them to Jeremy, all without even thinking about his suggested plan? If they were to aid Jeremy with troubled sleeping patterns, why didn't he just get his own pills? Too much of a coincidence and I don't believe it.

[notsure]

Scipio i havent read the whole of your post but just a point i would make is that JB did say on more than several occasions  he couldnt remenber the sequence of phone calls and that he was confused about it but the police kept askibg him over and over,

i was confused by the time id finished reading it. Its all very well to say he lied to the police but the questioning on this subject was very intense. You can hear that he  was tired and days later they were still asking him the same question , im not sure how any of us would react to that intense questioning.

to give an example a politician this week was explaining  her reaction when her son died of cot death but the police were asking her questions and she said her mind went blank. Shd couldn't remember telephone numbers of her family and was nearly paralysed with shock. I would imagine there was some shock in jeremy  dont u agree.

[lookout]

There is no need, as things stand now, for Julie to have any further involvement with the Bamber case. Why would she wish to draw attention to her past when there are probably very few who are aware of what she was doing 30 years ago in another country. Saying absolutely nothing would be the intelligent thing to do, not just for her own sake, but for that of her husband and children but her family who still live here.

Julie is well aware of what's going on presently and has done over the years,so out of decency and even closure for herself and family,to do the decent thing would have been to tell the world that he's guilty and be done with. Afterall indirectly it's she who's holding things up and who could put an end to this once and for all.
I've heard that she won't commit herself one way or the other. 

[Jane]

He had an earlier plan to kill the family and it involved giving them sleeping pills;  so are you saying that Julie gets sleeping pills from her doctor saying she had trouble sleeping but gives them to Jeremy, all without even thinking about his suggested plan? If they were to aid Jeremy with troubled sleeping patterns, why didn't he just get his own pills? Too much of a coincidence and I don't believe it.

It also occurs to me that, whilst it's extremely unlikely to find evidence of her lying re the sleeping pills, there was no chance of her visiting her doctor to get sleeping pill for someone who was capable of getting their own FROM THEIR OWN DOCTOR, she was hardly going to ask her doctor for sleeping pills for her boyfriend to kill his family, however, it DOESN'T mean it wasn't in her mind.

[maggie]

They're bound to look like excuses to you and everyone else who sees him guilty,so surely I too am with in my right to support him when I know he's innocent and am entitled to my say ?

I can see what you are saying Lookout and I have said the same.  I have changed my mind but that doesn't mean I don't respect your opinion.  I may change my mind again but at the moment I do believe Julie Mugford was involved so therefore JB has to have been.

[Jane]

Julie is well aware of what's going on presently and has done over the years,so out of decency and even closure for herself and family,to do the decent thing would have been to tell the world that he's guilty and be done with. Afterall indirectly it's she who's holding things up and who could put an end to this once and for all.
I've heard that she won't commit herself one way or the other.

Lookout, you know I have neither love nor liking for Julie, but why on earth you think she should put herself through, once again telling the world he's guilty when she's ALREADY stood up in court and said it 30 years ago, is beyond me. She has no need to further commit herself. He was found guilty.

[lookout]

I can see what you are saying Lookout and I have said the same.  I have changed my mind but that doesn't mean I don't respect your opinion.  I may change my mind again but I do believe Julie Mugford was involved so therefore JB has to have been.

That's fine by me Maggie. I don't believe that Julie was involved at all as she had no idea whatsoever what was to happen. There had to be someone to take the blame and Jeremy drew the short straw.

[maggie]

Scipio i havent read the whole of your post but just a point i would make is that JB did say on more than several occasions  he couldnt remenber the sequence of phone calls and that he was confused about it but the police kept askibg him over and over,

i was confused by the time id finished reading it. Its all very well to say he lied to the police but the questioning on this subject was very intense. You can hear that he  was tired and days later they were still asking him the same question , im not sure how any of us would react to that intense questioning.

to give an example a politician this week was explaining  her reaction when her son died of cot death but the police were asking her questions and she said her mind went blank. Shd couldn't remember telephone numbers of her family and was nearly paralysed with shock. I would imagine there was some shock in jeremy  dont u agree.

I always said the same notsure and if he was innocent yes he would have been in complete shock. 
I agree, shock does affect us in all kinds of ways from laughing inappropriately when you are expected to cry to going out clubbing etc. That's why I don't believe the way he did or didn't grieve proved anything. 
I just cannot believe the whole of EP framed him, why would they? 

I could believe that after they had changed sides once and taken Taff off the case a few discovered something which may have proved his innocence and they destroyed it and kept quiet because to have to admit again they had made a mistake would probably put jobs in jeopardy but it's a long shot.

The more I think about Sheila the harder it is to believe she could have managed that gun.  She could have picked up a loaded gun and fired it quite easily but once the bullets ran out she would be more likely to throw it down and bang her head against the wall than to reload the magazine etc.imo.

[Jane]

I always said the same notsure and if he was innocent yes he would have been in complete shock. 
I agree, shock does affect us in all kinds of ways from laughing inappropriately when you are expected to cry to going out clubbing etc. That's why I don't believe the way he did or didn't grieve proved anything. 
I just cannot believe the whole of EP framed him, why would they? 

I could believe that after they had changed sides once and taken Taff off the case a few discovered something which may have proved his innocence and they destroyed it and kept quiet because to have to admit again they had made a mistake would probably put jobs in jeopardy but it's a long shot.

The more I think about Sheila the harder it is to believe she could have managed that gun.  She could have picked up a loaded gun and fired it quite easily but once the bullets ran out she would be more likely to throw it down and bang her head against the wall than to reload the magazine etc.imo.

Neither am I prepared to believe that the whole EP force, numerous civil servants and untold private individuals combined to frame an innocent man. I think Mike listed 29(?) names involved. The longer  his list becomes, the more convinced I am of Jeremy's guilt.

[maggie]

That's fine by me Maggie. I don't believe that Julie was involved at all as she had no idea whatsoever what was to happen. There had to be someone to take the blame and Jeremy drew the short straw.

Maybe, am not saying I am definitely right it's just my way of seeing things, I may be wrong and it worries me because if I am then I have made a big mistake.
I don't trust the police, I know they look after their own but I believe Julie knew exactly what she was doing, she was far from innocent imo.