Neville's call to Jeremy. A 1% likelihood ?

[Adam]

It would be perfectly reasonable -given how Jeremy justified what he was going to do before he did it- for him to explain to his victims his reasons for dispatching them. It wouldn't have been UNreasonable for either parent, at SOME point, to try to reason with him.

So Bamber had a chat with June and Neville. And Sheila. Before killing them. 

Was that over a cuppa ?

[scipio_usmc]

Susan there is virtually no possibility of Sheila waking.

It depends on how light of a sleeper she was and how much noise was being made.  It is possible she woke up at some point of her own volition as opposed to Jeremy waking her. Only Jeremy knows whether it happened.

What is obvious is that if she did wake up and leave her room on her own volition as opposed to at gunpoint she wasn't out of her room very long before Jeremy showed up because she would have gone to check on her kids and tried to hide them or get them out of the house.  The fact she didn't do this means either she never left her room until Jeremy forced her at gunpoint or took a while to wake and leave her room, saw her mother's body then Jeremy was returning up the stairs with the loaded weapon and she tried to run away by going through the boxroom but her stopped her before she made it.

It is more likely that he woke her up and marched her at gunpoint than her leaving of her own volition but suggesting it is virtually impossible for her to have woken up is not true.  The odds are simply more likely than not, not beyond a reasonable doubt as you suggest.

   

[lookout]

No,the cup of tea came later between Sheila and her father in the kitchen. Possibly during which Sheila made herself a snack.

[Adam]

Adam maybe Ralph shouted at Sheila's bedroom door to wake her up before he went downstairs,

I don't know why there is resistance.

It is clear that Sheila would not wake with the actions upstairs. The twins didn't.

All that happened upstairs was Bamber shot 10/11 bullets into Neville and June. With the silencer attached. There were two shut doors and two walls between the shots and Sheila.

[Adam]

Would an awake Sheila hear the rifle being fired with the silencer attached. If there were two walls, two shut doors and several metres between her and the shots ?

Maybe. If she had good ears. I am sure Scipio will inform me.

[Adam]

The downstairs fight may have been much louder.

Bamber had no control over it. Although Neville was already badly injured.

Bamber brutally beat him with the rifle but and shot him another three times. He was not marked himself.

If it was louder downstairs, the problem then is Sheila is upstairs. Asleep with her bedroom door shut.

However it is more likely Sheila would wake from this. Although the twins didn't.

[Jane]

So Bamber had a chat with June and Neville. And Sheila. Before killing them. 

Was that over a cuppa ?

You're the one suggesting such.

[scipio_usmc]

Would an awake Sheila hear the rifle being fired with the silencer attached. If there were two walls, two shut doors and several metres between her and the shots ?

Maybe. If she had good ears.

I can hear people running down the stairs with my bedroom door closed.  Whether that is enough to wake me up depends on how sound I am sleeping. I normally am a light sleeper so usually it will.  Similarly the thump of June collapsing could potentially wake someone. While the fight in the kitchen is happening she walks around the bed, back towards the door and goes thump. Sheila could hear this eventually decide to go look and then before she even has a chance to run to check on the boys Jeremy returns. 

How many times do people hear noises and instead of rushing right out they listen to try to see if they can identify what the noise was/listen for more noise and only after they can't identify it or the noise stops do they go investigate?  It is a rather common thing to do such as opposed to rushing immediately.

[Jane]

I can hear people running down the stairs with my bedroom door closed.  Whether that is enough to wake me up depends on how sound I am sleeping. I normally am a light sleeper so usually it will.  Similarly the thump of June collapsing could potentially wake someone. While the fight in the kitchen is happening she walks around the bed, back towards the door and goes thump. Sheila could hear this eventually decide to go look and then before she even has a chance to run to check on the boys Jeremy returns. 

How many times do people hear noises and instead of rushing right out they listen to try to see if they can identify what the noise was/listen for more noise and only after they can't identify it or the noise stops do they go investigate?  It is a rather common thing to do such as opposed to rushing immediately.

I think this may be a case of a story being made up and expanded step by step to make fit the theory that a soundly sleeping Sheila was lifted from her bed and carried, unwaking and unprotesting to her death.

[Adam]

I can hear people running down the stairs with my bedroom door closed.  Whether that is enough to wake me up depends on how sound I am sleeping. I normally am a light sleeper so usually it will.  Similarly the thump of June collapsing could potentially wake someone. While the fight in the kitchen is happening she walks around the bed, back towards the door and goes thump. Sheila could hear this eventually decide to go look and then before she even has a chance to run to check on the boys Jeremy returns. 

How many times do people hear noises and instead of rushing right out they listen to try to see if they can identify what the noise was/listen for more noise and only after they can't identify it or the noise stops do they go investigate?  It is a rather common thing to do such as opposed to rushing immediately.

It's common sense for Bamber to ensure all bedroom doors are shut, and to shut the main bedroom door before opening fire.

Would 10/11 bullets being fired in quick succession, with a silencer attached, be loud enough to travel through two doors, two walls and several metres to wake Sheila ?

[Jane]

It's common sense for Bamber to ensure all bedroom doors are shut, and to shut the main bedroom door before opening fire.

Would 10/11 bullets being fired in quick succession, with a silencer attached, be loud enough to travel through two doors, two walls and several metres to wake Sheila ?

Presumably, he'd previously gone to the lengths of checking to make certain none of the doors squeaked and there were no loose floorboards anywhere which would give him away by creaking.

[scipio_usmc]

Presumably, he'd previously gone to the lengths of checking to make certain none of the doors squeaked and there were no loose floorboards anywhere which would give him away by creaking.

Closing the door was indeed common sense, not only to prevent others from hearing the noise but also to make it harder for the parents to escape. But that just means either Jeremy or Nevill opened the door and Sheila could have heard it open in addition to hearing both go down the stairs.

[Adam]

Closing the door was indeed common sense, not only to prevent others from hearing the noise but also to make it harder for the parents to escape. But that just means either Jeremy or Nevill opened the door and Sheila could have heard it open in addition to hearing both go down the stairs.

Why would opening a door be loud ?

[Jane]

Why would opening a door be loud ?

House movements are more audible at night than during the day.

[maggie]

House movements are more audible at night than during the day.

Old houses are particularly noisy with their creaks and thuds
Sound travels strangely as well, you may not hear what happens next door but can hear noises from a different part of the house quite clearly.