Neville's call to Jeremy. A 1% likelihood ?

[lookout]

Let's face it,because he was getting the blame anyway he'd really have to think deeply at what had been said by his father as getting it right was a matter of life and death. He certainly didn't realise that he was going to take the rap for something he hadn't done. When you know you're in the clear,it's hard to remember what you said or did because you never think that you need to repeat something again.
A liar/murderer will have their information transfixed in their brain that it's an exact repetition of what they said in the first place.

[Caroline]

Let's face it,because he was getting the blame anyway he'd really have to think deeply at what had been said by his father as getting it right was a matter of life and death. He certainly didn't realise that he was going to take the rap for something he hadn't done. When you know you're in the clear,it's hard to remember what you said or did because you never think that you need to repeat something again.
A liar/murderer will have their information transfixed in their brain that it's an exact repetition of what they said in the first place.

He wasn't getting the blame, not initially and because he things he said DIDN'T actually happen, he had to try and remember what he had said and he tripped himself up several times and still does it. It was an important call, it changed his life - you DON'T forget! Not if it REALLY happened.

[lookout]

He wasn't getting the blame, not initially and because he things he said DIDN'T actually happen, he had to try and remember what he had said and he tripped himself up several times and still does it. It was an important call, it changed his life - you DON'T forget! Not if it REALLY happened.

I doubt he tripped himself up,as with most of us when we're trying to think of something that happened we have a genuine lapse of memory and say the wrong thing. Nobody is infallible.

[Caroline]

I doubt he tripped himself up,as with most of us when we're trying to think of something that happened we have a genuine lapse of memory and say the wrong thing. Nobody is infallible.

Call it what you like, I'll call it tripping himself up - he let it slip that he called Julie first - then tried to change it. I'd certainly call that tripping himself up.

[lookout]

Call it what you like, I'll call it tripping himself up - he let it slip that he called Julie first - then tried to change it. I'd certainly call that tripping himself up.

I too would probably call it tripping if I was on your side of the fence.

[scipio_usmc]

Yes but with someone almost the same height as you it is quite ungainly particularly if that person is fighting you off....  I cannot see how that worked and anyway f it was dark he would have been crashing about as well...

Weight is most important not height. In training I had to carry men much larger than myself. He had Sheila at gunpoint and once she was in the hall at minimum she knew he already killed her mother.  The notion he needed to carry her out of her room is silly.  She could have left it on her own and encountered him in the hall.  If she didn't do so and he didn't have a weapon then he might have needed to forcibly remove her from her room. But he had a gun so didn't need to use physical force he simply needed to threaten her with the gun.  Very few people ordered to do something at gunpoint will defy the gunman and simply stand pat. 

[Jane]

Weight is most important not height. In training I had to carry men much larger than myself. He had Sheila at gunpoint and once she was in the hall at minimum she knew he already killed her mother.  The notion he needed to carry her out of her room is silly.  She could have left it on her own and encountered him in the hall.  If she didn't do so and he didn't have a weapon then he might have needed to forcibly remove her from her room. But he had a gun so didn't need to use physical force he simply needed to threaten her with the gun.  Very few people ordered to do something at gunpoint will defy the gunman and simply stand pat.

So just to clarify, can you confirm that you don't think he A) Put the rifle down on the bed, picked up a sleeping/dozy Sheila, carried her through to the master bedroom, put her down in a seated position on the floor and ordered her not to move, whilst he went back to get the rifle to kill her with, or B) Stuck the rifle between his legs, picked up a sleeping/dozy Sheila and waddled with her into the master bedroom where he put her down and shot her, or C) He woke/roused a sleeping/dozy Sheila, gave he the rifle to hold for him whilst he picked her up and carried her to the master bedroom where he put her down and shot her.

[Steve_uk]

Weight is most important not height. In training I had to carry men much larger than myself. He had Sheila at gunpoint and once she was in the hall at minimum she knew he already killed her mother.  The notion he needed to carry her out of her room is silly.  She could have left it on her own and encountered him in the hall.  If she didn't do so and he didn't have a weapon then he might have needed to forcibly remove her from her room. But he had a gun so didn't need to use physical force he simply needed to threaten her with the gun.  Very few people ordered to do something at gunpoint will defy the gunman and simply stand pat.

I don't think he threatened her in her own bedroom because as debilitated and disorientated as she was she would have made a rush to her sons' room. I believe he told her that there were intruders in the Farm and Nevill had gone downstairs to telephone Police. There was no alarm on her face as there might have been had she known the shocking truth.

[scipio_usmc]

So just to clarify, can you confirm that you don't think he A) Put the rifle down on the bed, picked up a sleeping/dozy Sheila, carried her through to the master bedroom, put her down in a seated position on the floor and ordered her not to move, whilst he went back to get the rifle to kill her with, or B) Stuck the rifle between his legs, picked up a sleeping/dozy Sheila and waddled with her into the master bedroom where he put her down and shot her, or C) He woke/roused a sleeping/dozy Sheila, gave he the rifle to hold for him whilst he picked her up and carried her to the master bedroom where he put her down and shot her.

Anyone who thinks he carried her is a fool.  If he did wake her up and she didn't leave her room to try to get away from him then he dragged her out at gunpoint.

 

[Jane]

Anyone who thinks he carried her is a fool.  If he did wake her up and she didn't leave her room to try to get away from him then he dragged her out at gunpoint.

 

For the record. I DON'T believe he carried her.

[maggie]

Weight is most important not height. In training I had to carry men much larger than myself. He had Sheila at gunpoint and once she was in the hall at minimum she knew he already killed her mother.  The notion he needed to carry her out of her room is silly.  She could have left it on her own and encountered him in the hall.  If she didn't do so and he didn't have a weapon then he might have needed to forcibly remove her from her room. But he had a gun so didn't need to use physical force he simply needed to threaten her with the gun.  Very few people ordered to do something at gunpoint will defy the gunman and simply stand pat.

How did you carry them scipio, a fireman's lift is the only way I can think you could carry a person as tall or taller than yourself.  You are being very dismissive about this but I have had plenty of experience in the past of moving and lifting people, there are special ways of moving people which protects your own back etc. .... but if someone struggles it becomes very difficult. I am curious as how you were trained to lift people taller than yourself and I would assume these were not people who were struggling with you and trying to get away rather injured people from your own side.
I do agree with you, I don't believe Sheila was carried.

[Jan]

I don't think he threatened her in her own bedroom because as debilitated and disorientated as she was she would have made a rush to her sons' room. I believe he told her that there were intruders in the Farm and Nevill had gone downstairs to telephone Police. There was no alarm on her face as there might have been had she known the shocking truth.

He did not wear a mask then as claimed I think by a recent author.

[Steve_uk]

He did not wear a mask then as claimed I think by a recent author.

That's a good point,though the mask may have been worn to prevent scratches to his face.

[scipio_usmc]

How did you carry them scipio, a fireman's lift is the only way I can think you could carry a person as tall or taller than yourself.  You are being very dismissive about this but I have had plenty of experience in the past of moving and lifting people, there are special ways of moving people which protects your own back etc. .... but if someone struggles it becomes very difficult. I am curious as how you were trained to lift people taller than yourself and I would assume these were not people who were struggling with you and trying to get away rather injured people from your own side.
I do agree with you, I don't believe Sheila was carried.

I have carried women who were bigger than me and heavier than me in my arms but you can't run in that position and can't carry anything else.  Sheila was lighter than the women in question but still the speed at which you can move with someone in front is rather limited otherwise you are going to drop her or fall.

The firemen's carry is the only one where you can haul ass while carrying something else- so naturally we did the firemen's carry.  We had races you carry the one way and are carried the opposite and see which team of 2 could do it the fastest.

He didn't need to haul ass but would have to have put the gun down to try to pick up Sheila.  Why would he do that?  Why would he try carrying her instead of simply ordering her to move at gunpoint?  It makes no sense whatsoever.  It's not physically impossible it just makes no sense to do it.

[scipio_usmc]

For the record. I DON'T believe he carried her.

There is only 1 person I have seen making this claim- Adam.  If anyone else agrees with him I missed it.