After nine closures, a time for a final closure ?

[guest154]

There are over 30 forensic points which highlight guilt.

Supporters like to argue that it is just circumstantial evidence. It isn't.

However circumstantial evidence is as important.

It is important, yeah. When you add all the circumstantial evidence together, his behaviour  pre and post murders and his comments pre and post murders, his changing story then and now - and the condition Sheila was found in - it all adds up.

[lookout]

Behaviour pre and post is no indicator of guilt.

[guest154]

Behaviour pre and post is no indicator of guilt.

Depends on what behaviour it is.

"I should have been an actor." is a comment that shows guilt post murder.

Trying to sell photos of his sister is a sign of his warped attitude and  shows his financial greed, which helps to cement his motive.

Of course his behaviour and comments post murder can be an indicator of his guilt.

[lookout]

Depends on what behaviour it is.

"I should have been an actor." is a comment that shows guilt post murder.

Trying to sell photos of his sister is a sign of his warped attitude and  shows his financial greed, which helps to cement his motive.

Of course his behaviour and comments post murder can be an indicator of his guilt.

JB may have uttered these things but not at that time.It could well have been on an entirely different occasion,but it happened to fit the scenario at that particular time.

There are no hard and fast rules of how an individual has to grieve. The pic of him with JM at the funeral is a pained one IMHO. If he'd been a woman,it would have shown an entirely different picture as for some reason it's more acceptable for a woman to " break down " in grief than it is for a man.

While I'm on the subject of grief,I didn't see anyone else with their faces buried in a handkerchief.?

[Jane]

JB may have uttered these things but not at that time.It could well have been on an entirely different occasion,but it happened to fit the scenario at that particular time.

There are no hard and fast rules of how an individual has to grieve. The pic of him with JM at the funeral is a pained one IMHO. If he'd been a woman,it would have shown an entirely different picture as for some reason it's more acceptable for a woman to " break down " in grief than it is for a man.

While I'm on the subject of grief,I didn't see anyone else with their faces buried in a handkerchief.?

We have Julie, alone with him, saying he laughed/giggled and said those words. We have a policeman standing  outside the room who heard the sound. I don't think there can be much doubt. Unless they collaborated, how would Julie and a policeman she didn't know was there, at a time when Jeremy wasn't really under suspicion, get together a month later to move those words to a different place and time?

[lookout]

We have Julie, alone with him, saying he laughed/giggled and said those words. We have a policeman standing  outside the room who heard the sound. I don't think there can be much doubt. Unless they collaborated, how would Julie and a policeman she didn't know was there, at a time when Jeremy wasn't really under suspicion, get together a month later to move those words to a different place and time?

Aha,JM alone with JB. Nobody else present to verify that then ? Can we rely 100% in what JM said anyway ?
The officer outside the room could have heard a muffled cry which would sound like choked laughter-------but it shows how wrong they can be as well. Their ears were to the ground listening/looking for anything that could possibly see them back in favour with their chief after some failed investigations of late.

If anyone was acting,it was JM who put on a brilliant display of the scorned woman. The Taming of the Shrew had nothing on JM's outpourings for the prosecution. Pity it didn't continue when it was the turn of the defence. 

[mertol22]

Final  closure  is not going to happen, a generation time then yes as everyone  will be gone connected to the case , if you believe all the facts  are correct  and all evidence has been  given then  you will believe anything.

[Jane]

Aha,JM alone with JB. Nobody else present to verify that then ? Can we rely 100% in what JM said anyway ?
The officer outside the room could have heard a muffled cry which would sound like choked laughter-------but it shows how wrong they can be as well. Their ears were to the ground listening/looking for anything that could possibly see them back in favour with their chief after some failed investigations of late.

If anyone was acting,it was JM who put on a brilliant display of the scorned woman. The Taming of the Shrew had nothing on JM's outpourings for the prosecution. Pity it didn't continue when it was the turn of the defence.

But it's very coincidental that the incident was heard simultaneously, Julie already knowing what had transpired but the policeman being ignorant of it.

[nugnug]

Final  closure  is not going to happen, a generation time then yes as everyone  will be gone connected to the case , if you believe all the facts  are correct  and all evidence has been  given then  you will believe anything.

closure i do hate that word.

[Adam]

Behaviour pre and post is no indicator of guilt.

It is an indicator of guilt.

Pre massacre it helps to create his motives of hate and greed. The prosecution have to convince the jury he has a motive.

Post massacre it backs up his motive.  As he spent freely straight away and showed no remorse.

This together with the forensic and circumstantial evidence gets the police a water tight case. No matter how much Bamber tries to break out.

[lookout]

It is an indicator of guilt.

Pre massacre it helps to create his motives of hate and greed. The prosecution have to convince the jury he has a motive.

Post massacre it backs up his motive.  As he spent freely straight away and showed no remorse.

This together with the forensic and circumstantial evidence gets the police a water tight case. No matter how much Bamber tries to break out.

Behaviour is NOT an indicator of guilt at all. It's only what YOU perceive as being guilt. Clever people give NO indication of their thoughts and never breathe a word to anyone. On the contrary their persona could well be that of being overly helpful,unnaturally pleasant as though a person has turned over a new leaf making it pleasing to others. That would have been his " acting " trait coming out and if that had been the way he was then I'd have said he was guilty. That's a schizo/split personality.
In a lot of cases,the murderer turns out to be someone who you least expected. This is why it takes skill in solving a crime such as this one at WHF.

There's nothing easier than pointing a finger to the person whose mannerisms,etc point to him being the culprit,but there's more to it than that and if EP had done their job properly,they'd have settled for the right person and not JB.

[Adam]

Behaviour is NOT an indicator of guilt at all. It's only what YOU perceive as being guilt. Clever people give NO indication of their thoughts and never breathe a word to anyone. On the contrary their persona could well be that of being overly helpful,unnaturally pleasant as though a person has turned over a new leaf making it pleasing to others. That would have been his " acting " trait coming out and if that had been the way he was then I'd have said he was guilty. That's a schizo/split personality.
In a lot of cases,the murderer turns out to be someone who you least expected. This is why it takes skill in solving a crime such as this one at WHF.

There's nothing easier than pointing a finger to the person whose mannerisms,etc point to him being the culprit,but there's more to it than that and if EP had done their job properly,they'd have settled for the right person and not JB.

It backs up evidence.

There is no point the prosecution saying Bamber killed his family for no reason.

They have to have motives, which are facts. Then back this up with facts about Bamber's actions pre and post massacre, and what he said to other people.

[lookout]

Prosecutions and Jurys' have been wrong before you know !

[buddy]

But it's very coincidental that the incident was heard simultaneously, Julie already knowing what had transpired but the policeman being ignorant of it.

So if Jeremy had not dumped JM she would have kept her mouth shut.
She is as guilty as Jeremy in that case.

[Caroline]

So if Jeremy had not dumped JM she would have kept her mouth shut.
She is as guilty as Jeremy in that case.

She may well have done, we'll never know. She could have held that over him for the rest of their lives - now that might have been an even worse fate than the one he's living now!!