Bamber's only other framing option :

[Adam]

Bamber himself ruled out the burning down WHF idea. There is no mention from Julie about him creating a fake burglar or random psychopath. Both those ideas have way too many disadvantages.

His only other option was to kill everyone as he did and stage the scene to frame Sheila.  Then go back home and not ring the police. Then let someone else find the bodies the following day.

Disadvantages:

He usually had breakfast at WHF so would be first on the scene. Why didn't he do that, that morning ?

He still has no alibi for the whole night.

He would still be near WHF when the bodies are discovered by someone else.

If the bodies are discovered late in the day, why hadn't Bamber tried to find Neville ?

How could BW, a farm worker or the housekeeper get into WHF if the front door was locked from inside ?

If nobody could gain access to WHF, Bamber would be contacted. He may then have to get into WHF through a window. Showing he knows how to do this.

If the police didn't believe it was murder/suicide, there would still only really be one suspect - Bamber.

Advantages:

He can still use Sheila's illness. After grieving in front of the police he can tell them all about Sheila. Just as he did outside WHF prior to the raid teams force entry. 

Strictly speaking he is not rounding down the suspects to two.

He had to pretend to have slept all night, so would surely not call Julie.

He would not have to allege Neville called him and he woke and answered. This claim has always been totally unconvincing.

If no one can get into WHF in the morning, he can insinuate someone tragic has happened and get the police. Insinuating Sheila. Maybe even creating a day time siege situation although that would be harder to do as Neville had not called him.


Can other people find any other advantages or disadvantages of attempting this frame ?

[Adam]

There isn't really too much to choose between this option and the one he chose.

He may have been able to lead the police in a direction for a few weeks using the other option. Just as he did using his chosen method.

If everything went smoothly with the other option,  he could wait until someone approaches him on the farm to say they cannot get into WHF and there is no response.  Bamber could then go to WHF to assist and then start suggesting something is wrong. He could then suggest calling the police as he is worried.

I wonder if he only chose to ring the police because Neville ended up in the kitchen ?

[scipio_usmc]

There isn't really too much to choose between this option and the one he chose.

He may have been able to lead the police in a direction for a few weeks using the other option. Just as he did using his chosen method.

If everything went smoothly with the other option,  he could wait until someone approaches him on the farm to say they cannot get into WHF and there is no response.  Bamber could then go to WHF to assist and then start suggesting something is wrong. He could then suggest calling the police as he is worried.

I wonder if he only chose to ring the police because Neville ended up in the kitchen ?

Julie said that he told her a call from WHF would be involved.  In effect he was telling her he was going to say he received a distress call from WHF.  She claims not to have comprehended what he meant by this at the time. She said she just knew he said something about receiving a phonecall from WHF and not understanding he was saying he was going to make up such a call. The significance is legally significant because if she knew he made up a call from Nevill and knew she was helping support a fake call then that could be perverting justice. 

Regardless of whether she fully understood the implication or not, it proves he was planning to call police all along because the only reason to make up a distress call is to account for why you would call for police.  To make up a distress call but say you went back to sleep and only reveal it after the bodies were found would quite obviously not be favorable.

 

[Adam]

Julie said that he told her a call from WHF would be involved.  In effect he was telling her he was going to say he received a distress call from WHF.  She claims not to have comprehended what he meant by this at the time. She said she just knew he said something about receiving a phonecall from WHF and not understanding he was saying he was going to make up such a call. The significance is legally significant because if she knew he made up a call from Nevill and knew she was helping support a fake call then that could be perverting justice. 

Regardless of whether she fully understood the implication or not, it proves he was planning to call police all along because the only reason to make up a distress call is to account for why you would call for police.  To make up a distress call but say you went back to sleep and only reveal it after the bodies were found would quite obviously not be favorable.

Is it in Julie's WS that Bamber planned to make a phone call to the police. I thought it just says he planned to use Sheila as a scapegoat.

Once he phoned Julie at 3am, he had to make a call to the police. Otherwise it would highlight certain guilt. But both his call to Julie and the police may have been decisions made in the night.

[scipio_usmc]

Is it in Julie's WS that Bamber planned to make a phone call to the police. I thought it just says he planned to use Sheila as a scapegoat.

Once he phoned Julie at 3am, he had to make a call to the police. Otherwise it would highlight certain guilt. But both his call to Julie and the police may have been decisions made in the night.

It says in her witness statement that a call from WHF would be involved.  She was vague about what this call would entail.  She was either vague because A) Jeremy was vague when he told her; B) she didn't comprehend what he was telling her about it; C) she could not remember exactly what he was saying about it because she didn't care about it much at the time or D) she was trying to protect herself by pretending he was vague or that she didn't understand. If he told her that he was going to pretend he got a fake distress call WHF and she understood this fully then when she aided him by saying he told her he got a distress call she arguably would be guilty of perverting justice.  In such instance she would have a motive to be vague. But all she had to do was not mention it at all if she were worried it could snag her.

But she did mention that he told her his plan involved receiving a call from WHF.  In hind sight is it clear he was saying to her that his plan involved receiving a distress call from WHF. She said she didn't appreciate at the time this meant pretending to receive a distress call.   

[Adam]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1647

I couldn't find anything here about Julie saying Bamber planned to create fake calls and phone the police.

Interestingly Julie said she bought the sleeping tablets for herself. Jeremy checking them out.

Burning down WHF really was a terrible idea. Even if it burnt down successfully, surely it would still be easy to detect that the corpses had been shot.

[Adam]

It would be good if someone could provide a source that Julie said Bamber planned to create Neville's fake call to him, meaning he planned to phone the police.

Neville's call is so unconvincing it may have been a spur of the moment decision, and the other option I mentioned was actually his original plan A.

Neville getting to the kitchen had to be justified.

Both options had lots of pitfalls. But were his best options.  There is no easy way to kill five people and frame somebody else for it.

[Adam]

Just read her WS again

It doesn't say Bamber said he planned to create Neville's fake call. But Julie said Jeremy said 'you may be hearing from me later' in there 10pm phone call.

'Later' will mean at some point that night. If he planned to play dumb until after starting work, he would say 'tomorrow' rather than 'later'. 

There is no way he would not phone the police, but then phone Julie at 3am. Then claim to the police he had slept all night.  He's not that dumb, is he ? Mind you he certainly phoned Julie at 3am, before phoning the police and Neville's call. A mind numbingly dumb and unrecoverable move.

[Adam]

Thinking again, he may have been daft enough to commit the massacre, not phone the police, let someone else find the bodies in the morning, and still phone Julie at 3am.

He said to Julie at 10am ' you may be hearing from me later', so it seems he was planning to give her an update on how his trip to WHF went. Perhaps regardless of whether he was going to phone the police or not.

He was daft enough to phone Julie at 3am, which is something that even he can't claim Julie lied about as there were several other witnesses to the call.

Even worse was that he called her before the police. At least in this situation he can claim he was already up due to Neville's call, and wanted to 'hear a friendly voice'.

Bamber phoning Julie at 3am but not calling the police would highlight certain guilt. But you know what ? Bamber would simply say it was a coincidence.

So it's possible he was planning to carry out the other framing option and still phone Julie at 3am. However wanted to justify Neville being in the kitchen and invented his implausible call.