Author Topic: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?  (Read 28872 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #585 on: September 22, 2015, 10:24:AM »
The fact that it is now 'officially recognised', that Jeremy Bamber had indeed made two attempts to contact the police (once unsuccessfully to Witham police station, and secondly the call recieved by PC West), after the call he claims he had recieved from his father (Ralph Bamber), sandwiched either side of a different call he had made to Julie Mugford, can now also be put into its proper perspective. In the sequence of events, the following almost certainly happened...

Bear the following in mind - Why did PC West contact his own information room and speak with Malcolm Bonnet using the telephone exchange line, yet when PC West contacts Witham police station he uses the police radio system? The obvious conclusion must surely be that PC West was not able to contact Witham with use of the telephone exchange line, reaffirming that what Jeremy himself had tried to do, but had been unsuccessful, was an accurate discription of What Jeremy had told PC West minutes beforehand. By the time Jeremy had spoken with PC West at (03.36hrs) 03.31hrs, Jeremy had already made the call to Julie Mugford (at around 03.30hrs). Hence, the call Jeremy made to Julie Mugford, was indeed sandwiched between his calls to Witham and Chelmsford, police stations...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #586 on: September 22, 2015, 12:45:PM »
I have undertaken the following research involving the distances between Witham police station to whf, and Chelmsford police station to whf, relating to the deployment of the occupants of CA05 (Chelmsford), and CA07 (Witham):-

CHELMSFORD POLICE STATION to WHF, TOLLESHUNT D'ARCY - 19.7 miles (32 minutes)

It took the occupants of CA05 42 minutes to make this journey... (SLOW)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 01:21:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #587 on: September 22, 2015, 12:50:PM »
I have undertaken the following research involving the distances between Witham police station to whf, and Chelmsford police station to whf, relating to the deployment of the occupants of CA05 (Chelmsford), and CA07 (Witham):-

WITHAM POLICE STATION to WHF, TOLLESHUNT D'ARCY - 10.7 miles 22 minutes

It took the occupants of CA07 13 minutes to make this journey... (FAST)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 01:22:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #588 on: September 22, 2015, 01:00:PM »
Distance between 9 Head Street, Goldhanger (Jeremy Bambers cottage), and White House Farm, Tolleshunt D'arcy, Essex:-

9 HEAD STREET to WHF, TOLLESHUNT D'ARCY - 3.8 miles (8 minutes)

It took Jeremy Bamber 7 minutes to make this journey... (FAST)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 01:22:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #589 on: September 22, 2015, 01:46:PM »
A Great deal has been made about the speed with which Jeremy Bamber travelled from his cottage at 9 head street, Goldhanger towards the farmhouse, scene of the tragedy. It is a distance of 3.8 miles, and would normally take a person driving at average speed about 8 minutes to make the journey. Jeremy Bamber did it in about 7 minutes, which demonstrates in the clearest possible terms, that he was not hanging around for much of the journey, other than slowing down to allow a speeding police car with blue flashing lights to overtake him on the Tollsbury road in the direction of whf...
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 01:47:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #590 on: September 22, 2015, 01:50:PM »
A Great deal has been made about the speed with which Jeremy Bamber travelled from his cottage at 9 head street, Goldhanger towards the farmhouse, scene of the tragedy. It is a distance of 3.8 miles, and would normally take a person driving at average speed about 8 minutes to make the journey. Jeremy Bamber did it in about 7 minutes, which demonstrates in the clearest possible terms, that he was not hanging around for much of the journey, other than slowing down to allow a speeding police car with blue flashing lights to overtake him on the Tollsbury road in the direction of whf...

If Jeremy drove away from his cottage at the following times, it would demonstrate how fast or slow he was going en route to the scene (Average time to complete journey is 8 minutes):-

03.44hrs - 8 minutes - Average speed
03.45hrs - 7 minutes
03.46hrs - 6 minutes - Fast speed
03.47hrs - 5 minutes
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 02:11:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #591 on: September 22, 2015, 04:13:PM »
Bear the following in mind - Why did PC West contact his own information room and speak with Malcolm Bonnet using the telephone exchange line,

Are you suggesting he phoned his own information room?  Face to face he briefed the person in control of the Information Room he was in because that was the appropriate thing to do.


yet when PC West contacts Witham police station he uses the police radio system? The obvious conclusion must surely be that PC West was not able to contact Witham with use of the telephone exchange line, reaffirming that what Jeremy himself had tried to do, but had been unsuccessful, was an accurate discription of What Jeremy had told PC West minutes beforehand. By the time Jeremy had spoken with PC West at (03.36hrs) 03.31hrs, Jeremy had already made the call to Julie Mugford (at around 03.30hrs). Hence, the call Jeremy made to Julie Mugford, was indeed sandwiched between his calls to Witham and Chelmsford, police stations...

Bonnett told West to phone Witham's control room.  Maybe did so but forgot and erroneously claimed his first contact was by radio.  Maybe he decided not to bother and simply decided to contact CA7 directly since Bonnett told him about CA7.  Perhaps he tried the phone but got no answer so then resorted to radio as you suggest.  We have no way to know which of these 3 is the case nor doe sit matter which of these 3 is the case.   
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #592 on: September 22, 2015, 06:39:PM »
Are you suggesting he phoned his own information room? Yes, PC West testified during trial that he contacted the information room situated in the next building to the control room at Chelmsford police station. Furthermore, Bonnet himself confirmed that he was contacted via the phone by PC West... Face to face he briefed the person in control of the Information Room he was in PC West was located in the control room, Malcolm Bonnet was located in the communications room / information room. One could not talk verbally to one another face to face, since each was located in a seperate building next to eachother...because that was the appropriate thing to do. in the circumstances of this matter, impossible to be true...


Bonnett told West to phone Witham's control room. West phoned Bonnet to find out the closest sub police station to whf and was told by Bonnet that Witham police station patrolled that area. PC West then took it upon himself to contact Witham police station and may have tried to contact the information room by telephone and got no response, in the same way that Jeremy Bamber unsuccessfully tried to contact them minutes beforehand, so PC West used the police radio system to make contact with the information room at Witham police station. PC West confirms that he did speak to the information room at Witham police station, using the police radio...  Maybe did so but forgot and erroneously claimed his first contact was by radio.  Maybe he decided not to bother and simply decided to contact CA7 directly PC West testified during trial testimony that he contacted the information room at Witham police station by radio... since Bonnett told him about CA7. PC West did not deploy the occupants of CA07, there is no evidence recorded anywhere that he did, or that he had done, or that he even knew that CA07 had been deployed by Witham, whether or not CA07 was deployed by the information room at Witham police station, or by Malcolm Bonnet who had deployed CA07 from the information room at Chelmsford police station. All that PC West told Jeremy when he returned from speaking with Malcolm Bonnet in the Chelmsford information room (phone), and the information room at Witham (radio), that Jeremy should go directly to the farmhouse where he would be met with police officers who had already been deployed to the scene. West did not specify which police officers had been deployed, or where they had been deployed from. We now know that the occupants of CA05 was deployed (03.36hrs) 03.31hrs, to the incident 5 minutes before CA07 was deployed (03.35hrs) from Witham police station. What is disconcerting is that the occupants of CA07 were not made aware that other police officers had already been deployed to the incident, or where these other (CA05) were based, or the location they had been deployed from...  Perhaps he tried the phone but got no answer yes...so then resorted to radio yes...as you suggest.  We have no way to know which of these 3 is the case nor doe sit matter it matters, because if this is true, it suggests that PC West was unable to make contact with Witham police station by use of the telephone, only by use of the police radio system, supports Jeremys contention that he had earlier been unsuccessful in contacting Witham police station... which of these 3 is the case.   
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 06:48:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Reader

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #593 on: September 22, 2015, 06:50:PM »
It was Pc Holby Smith, not Holtby Smith. Saying a clock is accurate ± 5 minutes isn't a way of saying that it was out by 5 minutes. It is a way of saying that the clock was unreliable and, from memory, was sometime fast or slow by as much as about 5 minutes. This assertion was clearly rubbish anyway, as such a clock would have been reported and fixed, not tolerated (and that applies regardless of which clock Pc Holby Smith was referring to). Also, Pc West gave a different (and far more believable) account of the clock's accuracy. He clearly believed the clock was correct and that his recorded time of Jeremy's call was correct as well.

My understanding is that Jeremy has never confirmed trying to call Witham police station, but not getting an answer. I think he has denied doing so.

We can't be certain about when CA5 was sent, but its driver, Pc Cracknell, made a statement (available on this forum) in which he said that he and Pc Norcup (who together were the crew of CA5) were on duty in the Chelsmford police station control room (the room where Pc West was working) at 3:33 am when they were requested to attend White House Farm. There is nothing known to explain why they took about 48 minutes to drive to WHF. Once on their way, they would have confirmed their departure by radio, allowing Bonnett to update his log accordingly.

The kind of conversation suggested by Caroline (even with the suggested additions) would easily fit into two minutes, which leaves Jeremy just enough time to arrive at WHF at the time suggested by the police. He was estimated to be doing about 30 mph when overtaken by the police, which is consistent with the times I have mentioned. It's clear that Jeremy had called Julie before he called Pc West.

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #594 on: September 22, 2015, 07:01:PM »
PC West testified during trial that he contacted the information room situated in the next building to the control room at Chelmsford police station.
Pc West didn't say that. He clearly stated that the Chelmsford police station building was next door to the court, not to the police HQ information room where Bonnett was working (which was in Springfield).

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #595 on: September 22, 2015, 08:55:PM »
Pc West gave a different (and far more believable) account of the clock's accuracy. He clearly believed the clock was correct and that his recorded time of Jeremy's call was correct as well. Yes, PC West maintained the control room clock was accurate, and that he recorded the time correctly, as 03.36hrs, the time he recieved the call:-
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 09:04:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #596 on: September 22, 2015, 09:07:PM »


My understanding is that Jeremy has never confirmed trying to call Witham police station, but not getting an answer. I think he has denied doing so. PC West confirmed that Jeremy did tell him that he had tried unsuccessfully to make contact with Witham police station, prior to contacting him at the control room at Chelmsford police station:-

« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 09:10:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #597 on: September 22, 2015, 09:22:PM »

We can't be certain about when CA5 was sent, but its driver, Pc Cracknell, made a statement (available on this forum) in which he said that he and Pc Norcup (who together were the crew of CA5) were on duty in the Chelsmford police station control room (the room where Pc West was working) at 3:33 am when they were requested to attend White House Farm. The occupants of CA05, were deployed from Chelmsford police station, HQ...
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 09:23:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #598 on: September 22, 2015, 09:28:PM »
Pc West didn't say that. He clearly stated that the Chelmsford police station building was next door to the court, not to the police HQ information room where Bonnett was working (which was in Springfield).
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline David1819

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #599 on: September 22, 2015, 09:37:PM »
Distance between 9 Head Street, Goldhanger (Jeremy Bambers cottage), and White House Farm, Tolleshunt D'arcy, Essex:-

9 HEAD STREET to WHF, TOLLESHUNT D'ARCY - 3.8 miles (8 minutes)

It took Jeremy Bamber 7 minutes to make this journey... (FAST)

Has anyone ever attempted to ride a bike from 9 Head Street, Goldhanger to White House Farm? to see how long it would take? do the prosecution believe he took the roads or over the fields?