Author Topic: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?  (Read 28827 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #570 on: September 21, 2015, 10:07:PM »
What remit was given by the information room at Witham police station, to the occupants of CA07 when they got deployed to the scene at 03.35hrs?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #571 on: September 21, 2015, 10:08:PM »
Similarly, what remit was given to the occupants of CA05, when PC West deployed them to the scene at (03.36hrs),03.31hrs?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #572 on: September 21, 2015, 10:31:PM »
According to the testimony of PC West during the trial, his original conversation with Jeremy Bamber lasted about 1 minute, and he spent another 3 minutes contacting the information room at Chelmsford police station using the exchange line, followed by the information room at Witham police station by use of the police radio system, before returning back to deal with Jeremy Bamber. The occupants of CA07 had of course already been deployed (03.35hrs) by the time PC West returned to continue his conversation with Jeremy Bamber. West maintained by that stage some 4 minutes had already elapsed, time took up by 1 minute of conversation dealing with the first part of Jeremys call, and a further 3 minutes taken up dealing with the information room at Chelmsford police station, via the telephone exchange line, and the information room at Witham police station via the police radio. These 4 minutes which West speaks about fit in snugly with the time of deployment of the occupants of CA07 to the incident at 03.35hrs, if Jeremy Bambers call had indeed occurred at 03.31hrs (rather than at 03.36hrs)...
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 10:33:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #573 on: September 21, 2015, 10:45:PM »
Deployment of CA05 having occurred at more or less the same time that Jeremy Bambers call had been made, and recieved by PC West at 03.31hrs. It is documented in the West log (03.36hrs), 03.31hrs, that West deployed, or knew about the deployment of the occupants of CA05, which is mentioned in the Bonnet log (03.26hrs) as having occurred at 03.36hrs, but it is not clear by which clock the timing that is recorded there was being referred to, was it the (inaccurate) control room clock, or the (accurate) Chelmsford information room clock? Since, PC West appears to have deployed the occupants of CA05 to the scene, it is almost certainly the case that the time of deployment of CA05 given in the Bonnet log (03.26hrs) as 03.36hrs, is a reference to the inaccurate control room clock, producing a more accurate time of deployment as 03.31hrs, or in other words, more or less the same time as the call made by Jeremy Bamber, recieved by PC West...
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 10:56:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #574 on: September 21, 2015, 11:04:PM »
My interest is focussed on the timing and reason for the deployment of the occupants of CA05 by PC West, before he had time to recive the information given to him by Jeremy Bamber, and contact the information room at Chelmsford police station via use of the telephone exchange line. There simply wasn't enough time to enable PC West to deploy the occupants of CA05 to the incident unfolding at whf, at 03.31hrs, for them to be heading toward the incident in terms described by Jeremy Bamber in his call to PC West at (03.36hrs), 03.31hrs...

The occupants of CA05, therefore had a different remit when West deployed them, a remit that was different to the one given to the occupants of CA07, who were not deployed until 4 minutes after Jeremy's call to West, including West contacting the information rooms at Chelmsford (by exchage line), and Witham police stations (radio)...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #575 on: September 21, 2015, 11:09:PM »
My interest is focussed on the timing and reason for the deployment of the occupants of CA05 by PC West, before he had time to recive the information given to him by Jeremy Bamber, and contact the information room at Chelmsford police station via use of the telephone exchange line. There simply wasn't enough time to enable PC West to deploy the occupants of CA05 to the incident unfolding at whf, at 03.31hrs, for them to be heading toward the incident in terms described by Jeremy Bamber in his call to PC West at (03.36hrs), 03.31hrs...

The occupants of CA05, therefore had a different remit when West deployed them, a remit that was different to the one given to the occupants of CA07, who were not deployed until 4 minutes after Jeremy's call to West, including West contacting the information rooms at Chelmsford (by exchage line), and Witham police stations (radio)...

The mystery concerning why it appeared to all and sundry that the occupants of CA07 had been deployed (03.35hrs) to the scene, before Jeremys call to PC West (03.36hrs), has now been properly reconstructed to a high degree of satisfaction. The simple truth is that the occupants of CA07 were deployed after Jeremys call (03.31hrs) to PC West, not beforehand. The real mystery, now being the remit of the occupants of CA05, deployed to the scene at around the same time Jeremy made the aforementioned call recieved by PC West (03.31hrs)...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #576 on: September 21, 2015, 11:22:PM »
The truth only having been possible to reconstruct, by a reference to the evidence now available from PC HOLTBY - SMITH, who would have been able to testify to the fact that the control room clock was inaccurate at the material time by as much as 5 minutes, plus, or minus.  We now know that the control room clock was not inaccurate by 5 minutes, minus, because had that been the case, the time of Jeremys call (03.36hrs) would have occurred at 03.41hrs, which if the 5 minutes of duration of the call between Jeremy Bamber and PC West is added, takes the end of that call to around 03.46hrs, which in turn when considered against the time of arrival of CA07 at the scene (03.48hrs), and Jeremys own arrival at the scene by 03.52hrs, is not plausible for obvious reasons...
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 11:38:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #577 on: September 21, 2015, 11:27:PM »
The truth only having been possible to reconstruct, by a reference to the evidence now available from PC HOLTBY - SMITH, who would have been able to testify to the fact that the control room clock was inaccurate at the material time by as much as 5 minutes, plus, or minus.  We now know that the control room clock was not inaccurate by 5 minutes, minus, because had that been the case, the time of Jeremys call (03.36hrs) would have occurred at 03.41hrs, which if the 5 minutes of duration of the call between Jeremy Bamber and PC West is added, takes the end of that call to around 03.46hrs, which in turn when considered against the time of arrival of CA07 at the scene (03.48hrs), and Jeremys own arrival at the scene by 03.52hrs, is not plausible for obvious reasons...

The control room clock was not inaccurate by 5 minutes minus, because otherwise PC West would not have been able to contact the GPO Operator (03.42hrs) at the end of Jeremys call to him, if his call started at 03.41hrs...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #578 on: September 21, 2015, 11:31:PM »
It would appear to me, that PC West knew about the deployment of the occupants of CA05 (03.36hrs), 03.31hrs, to the scene, was with a remit linked either to Ralph Bambers call to the police (as per the Bonnet log, timed at 03.26hrs), or the activation of the attack alarm at 03.29hrs, or both. That the deployment of the occupants of CA07 (03.35hrs) was with a remit relating to the call made to PC West, by Jeremy Bamber (03.36hrs), 03.31hrs, relayed to the information room at Witham police station by PC West via police radio system...
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 11:41:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #579 on: September 21, 2015, 11:51:PM »
Why did it take the occupants of CA05, some 42 minutes from the time of deployment (03.36hrs), 03.31hrs, to the scene, until it arrived there (04.23hrs), considering that it was the very first vehicle to be immobilized to the incident?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #580 on: September 21, 2015, 11:53:PM »
Why did it take the occupants of CA05, some 42 minutes from the time of deployment (03.36hrs), 03.31hrs, to the scene, until it arrived there (04.23hrs), considering that it was the very first vehicle to be immobilized to the incident?

In stark contrast, it only took the occupants of CA07 some 13 minutes, to travel from Witham police station, to the scene at Pages Lane (deployed at 03.35hrs, arrived at the scene by 03.48hrs)...
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 11:54:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #581 on: September 21, 2015, 11:59:PM »
By reference to the testimony of PC West during the trial, evidence was adduced to confirm that Jeremy had tried to make contact with Witham police station prior to him calling the police at Chelmsford (03.36hrs), 03.31hrs - thus setting the record straight about Jeremy having seemingly made contradictory statements to the police at one time or another, after he had called the police and before he called the police. It is not until you know that Jeremy did indeed make an unsuccessful telephone call to Witham police station, and followed this by contacting the police at Chelmsford police station, that his answers can be shown to have been truthful ones, he called the police "before" (unsuccessful call to Witham police station) and "after" (Jeremy's call to PC West) he called Julie Mugford...
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 09:42:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #582 on: September 22, 2015, 12:03:AM »
By reference to the testimony of PC West during the trial, evidence was adduced to confirm that Jeremy had tried to make contact with Witham police station prior to him calling the police at Chelmsford (03.36hrs), 03.31hrs - thus setting the record straight about Jeremy having seemingly made contradictory statements to the police at one time or another, after he had called the police and before he called the police. It is not until you know that Jeremy did indeed make an unsuccessful telephone call to Witham police station, and followed this by contacting the police at Chelmsford police station, that his answers can be shown to have been truthful ones...

Both of these calls, either side of the 03.30hrs call Jeremy made to Julie Mugford...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #583 on: September 22, 2015, 12:09:AM »
The occupants of CA07, would have been in radio contact with thier own information room based at Witham police station, not necessarily the control room at Chelmsford police station, directly...

Any log kept by Witham police station information room therefore is critical towards establishing the credibility of PS Bews evidence, where he has maintained that the silhoetted figure seen at the bedroom window had merely been a trick of light...

Objective - obtain a copy of the 'Witham police station, information room log' containing PS Bews situation report, requesting armed officers to attend the scene regarding a potential seige situation...
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 09:45:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #584 on: September 22, 2015, 10:13:AM »
The fact that it is now 'officially recognised', that Jeremy Bamber had indeed made two attempts to contact the police (once unsuccessfully to Witham police station, and secondly the call recieved by PC West), after the call he claims he had recieved from his father (Ralph Bamber), sandwiched either side of a different call he had made to Julie Mugford, can now also be put into its proper perspective. In the sequence of events, the following almost certainly happened - (1) Ralph Bamber made the short call to Jeremy Bamber, (2) Ralph Bamber called the police, (3) Jeremy Bamber tried to call Ralph Bamber back, but kept getting an engaged tone, (4) Jeremy Bamber tried unsuccessfully to contact Witham police station, (5) attack alarm at farmhouse activated, (6) Jeremy Bamber called Julie Mugford, (7) occupants of CA05 deployed to incident, (8) Jeremy Bamber called Chelmsford police station and was dealt with by PC West, (9) PC West put Jeremy on hold whilst he contacted the information room at Chelmsford by exchange line, (10) PC West then contacted Witham police station by police radio (not by telephone) because that police station dealt with incidents where whf is located, (11) occupants of CA07 were deployed to the scene from Witham information room, (12) PC West continued with call recieved from Jeremy Bamber, told him to go directly to the scene where he would be met by police officers, who had already been deployed there, (13) PC West spoke with a GPO operator who checked telephone line at the scene, and reported that phone left off hook, (14) Occupants of CA07 overtook Jeremy Bamber en route to scene on the Tollsbury Road travelling in the direction towards the scene, (15) Occupants of CA07 arrived at the scene, (16) Jeremy Bamber arrived at the scene, (17) Bews, Myall, and Jeremy Bamber observe a person moving around inside the main bedroom through the bedroom window, observations lasted several minutes, and could not have been a trick of light, (18) Bews, Myall and Jeremy Bamber run back to the police car parked up in nearby Pages Lane, and PS Bews passes a situation report, where he mentions that a person who may be armed with a firearm has been seen to be moving around in an upstairs bedroom, and could the firearms officers be deployed to the scene, (19) Bews and Myall return into grounds of farmhouse to carry out further recce's, leaving Jeremy Bamber with PS Saxby in the patrol car parked in Pages lane, (20) Occupants of CA05 arrive at the scene...
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 10:13:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...