The 3am telephone call. What was said ?

[mike tesko]

Julie Mugford, and the rest of the drug abusers who were living at Caterham Road, were all smashed out of thier heads when Jeremy made his call to Julie Mugford that morning. There's no way a druggie can be relied upon to recount the time of a call in the middle of the night. A pound to a penny, that scoundrel dodgy Stan Jones took statements where these unreliable druggies mention timings, or he recieved that information from dodgy Julie under pressure from her druggie pals...

[scipio_usmc]

Julie Mugford, and the rest of the drug abusers who were living at Caterham Road, were all smashed out of thier heads when Jeremy made his call to Julie Mugford that morning. There's no way a druggie can be relied upon to recount the time of a call in the middle of the night. A pound to a penny, that scoundrel dodgy Stan Jones took statements where these unreliable druggies mention timings, or he recieved that information from dodgy Julie under pressure from her druggie pals...

Julie smoked pot several hours before Jeremy phoned. Were they smoking superpot that they would still be high at 3AM?   

[mike tesko]

Bonnett received information from West who received information from Jeremy.  Jeremy phoned West PRIOR to West phoning Bonnett.  Your nonsense is all a complete waste of time.

xxxx xxx xxxx xx xxxx xxx, PC HOLTBY - SMITH said the control room clock was inaccurate by 5 minutes plus or minus, which does not accord with the lies told by West or Bonnet, about the time keeping of the same control room clock. How can the same clock had been inaccurate by 5 minutes plus or minus, whilst at the same time being 10 minutes inaccurate plus?

Get a xxxxxxx grip of yourself man...

[mike tesko]

Shut the fuck up lard ass, PC HOLTBY - SMITH said the control room clock was inaccurate by 5 minutes plus or minus, which does not accord with the lies told by West or Bonnet, about the time keeping of the same control room clock. How can the same clock had been inaccurate by 5 minutes plus or minus, whilst at the same time being 10 minutes inaccurate plus?

Get a fucking grip of yourself man...

Why hide away the witness statement made by PC HOLTBY - SMITH that significantly contradicted the explanation offered by West and Bonnet, at the trial stage? It should be obvious to everyone that West and Bonnet were both lying, and that what they testified about was a load of codswallop...

[lookout]

Druggies tell lies anyway and are past-masters at denying anything too often making out that everyone else is the liar and they're the ones who are right because their minds are so addled.

[mike tesko]

Druggies tell lies anyway and are past-masters at denying anything too often making out that everyone else is the liar and they're the ones who are right because their minds are so addled.

Yes, everyone knows this to be true, except essex police, the relatives, and all the Bamber is guilty brigade, who obviously can't be living in the real world...

[lookout]

Yes, everyone knows this to be true, except essex police, the relatives, and all the Bamber is guilty brigade, who obviously can't be living in the real world...

Unless anyone has been on the end of one of their lies,they don't know.

[scipio_usmc]

xxxx xxx xxxx xx xxxx xxx, PC HOLTBY - SMITH said the control room clock was inaccurate by 5 minutes plus or minus, which does not accord with the lies told by West or Bonnet, about the time keeping of the same control room clock. How can the same clock had been inaccurate by 5 minutes plus or minus, whilst at the same time being 10 minutes inaccurate plus?

Get a xxxxxxx grip of yourself man...

I have a grip and you just supported my position.  West's clock being 5 minutes off is more than enough to meet the explanations I provided. 

I said West either wrote down the time at the end of the call OR Jeremy phoned between 3:20 and 3:23 but the clock read 3:26 but West screwed it up and wrote 3:36.  Indeed in his statement West wrote 3:26 though he meant to write 3:36 which just goes to show how easy such an error is.

Jeremy calls 3:23 when the clock reads 3:26 and yet West makes a mistake and writes 3:36
West calls Bonnet at 3:26

There you go perfect explanation.

Alternative explanation:

Jeremy calls 3:23 West puts him on hold at 3:26 and at that point goes to write down the time of the call so looks at the clock and makes a mistake and writes 3:36 instead of 3:26
West then calls Bonnet at 3:26

Alternative explanation:

Jeremy calls 3:23 West forgets to write down a time for the call until after he hangs up so after hanging up looks at the clock, it says 3:36 and he writes it down or he forgot to record a time until even later and when he realized it was missing he had to try to guess when the call came so he just guessed it came at 3:36.

One of these 3 is what happened.

[mike tesko]

Lets explore what PC HOLTBY - SMITH has said, against the timing of PC Wests log of 03.36hrs, he states that the control room clock is inaccurate by 5 minutes, plus or minus - so lets assume the real time of Jeremys call was not made at 03.36hrs, but at 03.41hrs. Since Jeremy did not arrive at the scene until 03.52hrs, this would have afforded him 11 minutes to get himself dressed, out into his astra GTE and arrive at whf in Pages Lane in good time. Bearing in mind that PC West testified to the effect that he may have misread the control room clock wrong, not that he knew it was either 10 minutes, or five minutes fast. He was never asked or questioned whether or not the control room clock had been 5 minutes fast, or even 10 minutes fast...

[scipio_usmc]

Lets explore what PC HOLTBY - SMITH has said, against the timing of PC Wests log of 03.36hrs, he states that the control room clock is inaccurate by 5 minutes, plus or minus - so lets assume the real time of Jeremys call was not made at 03.36hrs, but at 03.41hrs. Since Jeremy did not arrive at the scene until 03.52hrs, this would have afforded him 11 minutes to get himself dressed, out into his astra GTE and arrive at whf in Pages Lane in good time. Bearing in mind that PC West testified to the effect that he may have misread the control room clock wrong, not that he knew it was either 10 minutes, or five minutes fast. He was never asked or questioned whether or not the control room clock had been 5 minutes fast, or even 10 minutes fast...

Jeremy's initial conversation with West lasted at least 3 minutes, then he was hold for another 3-5 minutes, then he spoke to West for another couple of minutes.  That a minimum of 7-8 minutes before hanging up.  You want to pretend his call to police lasted 1 minute total including his time on hold.  What a tool...

[mike tesko]

I have a grip and you just supported my position.  West's clock being 5 minutes off is more than enough to meet the explanations I provided west and Bonnet said the difference was 10 minutes, now your changing what they said to 5 minutes, try stickinng with the known facts and the testimony given.... 

I said West either wrote down the time at the end of the call OR Jeremy phoned between 3:20 and 3:23 but the clock read 3:26 but West screwed it up and wrote 3:36.  Indeed in his statement West wrote 3:26 West didn't type his own witness statement, someone else edited the correct time of 03.36hrs, to 03.26hrs, as part of the attempt to merge both separate calls into the same one. The statement bearing the wrong time was typed up later, whereas the time of the log was recorded accurately by reference to the control room clock (inaccurate as it were by 5 minutes, plus or minus)though he meant to write 3:36 West didn't type his statement, it was typed by a lady typist in the office typing pool...which just goes to show how easy such an error is. They made an error, alright, they stretched the 5 minutes of inaccuracy, to 10 minutes, but the timings still don't fit thier explanations. It's still probable that the real time of Jeremy's call to PC West occurred or concluded at 03.41hrs, and that Jeremy got to the scene in good time, still arriving there at 03.52hrs. Bonnet and Wests accounts do not tally, when you factor into the equation the inaccuracy by 5 minutes of the HOLTBY - SMITH evidence. Whichever way you decide to adjust the 03.36hrs of PC Wests timing recorded of his phone log contents, it can never be 10 minutes different to the Bonnet clock in the information room. That's why they hid and consealed the HOLTBY - SMITH statement and its contents, since if the control room clock was 5 minutes fast, there would only have been 5 minutes difference in real / true time, between the control room clock where West was situated, and the information room clock where Bonnet was located. On the other hand, had the control room clock been 5 minutes slow, the time difference between the control room clock, and the information room clock would have been a whopping 15 minutes inaccurate, one way, or the other...

Jeremy calls 3:23 Jeremy did not give a time, until years later when he was trying to make sense of all the lies told about clocks by prosecution witnesses, and police officers...when the clock reads 3:26 if the control room clock read 03.26hrs, the true time according to HOLTBY - SMITH would have been 03.31hrs...and yet West makes a mistake and writes 3:36 He doesn't make a mistake, he records 03.36hrs because that is the time the control room clock is reading, and its inaccurate by 5 minutes, plus, or minus...
West calls Bonnet at 3:26 No, he did not, he couldn't have done, not on HOLTBY - SMITHS estimatation regarding the control room clocks accuracy...

There you go perfect explanation. My explanation is, yes...

Alternative explanation:

Jeremy calls 3:23 West puts him on hold at 3:26 and at that point goes to write down the time of the call so looks at the clock and makes a mistake and writes 3:36 instead of 3:26
West then calls Bonnet at 3:26 There is no alternative explanation...

Alternative explanation:

Jeremy calls 3:23 West forgets to write down a time for the call until after he hangs up so after hanging up looks at the clock, it says 3:36 and he writes it down or he forgot to record a time until even later and when he realized it was missing he had to try to guess when the call came so he just guessed it came at 3:36. There was no guess work, they got thier heads together and tried to merge both calls together as the same call...

One of these 3 is what happened. You believe what you like...

[scipio_usmc]

west and Bonnet said the difference was 10 minutes, now your changing what they said to 5 minutes, try stickinng with the known facts and the testimony given....

I am sticking with the facts and evidence.  Jeremy phoned West 3:20-3:23, West placed Jeremy on hold and phoned Bonnett at 3:26.  West screwed up and recorded Jeremy's call as coming at 3:36.  Those are the facts, it is quite simple.  Everything you are posting is nonsense.



   

[mike tesko]

Jeremy's initial conversation with West lasted at least 3 minutes, then he was hold for another 3-5 minutes, then he spoke to West for another couple of minutes.  That a minimum of 7-8 minutes before hanging up.  You want to pretend his call to police lasted 1 minute total including his time on hold. No, I do not, I think the control room clock, read 03.36hrs, but that it was inaccurate by 5 minutes plus. This put the probable real time of Jeremys call to police at say 03.31hrs, still 6 minutes too late for it to have been the same call made to Bonnet at 03.26am...  What a tool...

[mike tesko]

I am sticking with the facts and evidence.  Jeremy phoned West 3:20-3:23, West placed Jeremy on hold and phoned Bonnett at 3:26.  West screwed up and recorded Jeremy's call as coming at 3:36.  Those are the facts, it is quite simple.  Everything you are posting is nonsense.
 

Neither West or Bonnet, or HOLTBY - SMITH say anything to remotely support your imaginative version of events. Lets get the facts right, Bonnet log (information room) timed at 03.26hrs, West log (control room) timed at 03.36hrs, HOLTBY - SMITH claims control room clock inaccurate by 5 minutes, plus, or minus. Conclusion, West could not have called Bonnet any sooner than 03.31hrs...

[mike tesko]

Neither West or Bonnet, or HOLTBY - SMITH say anything to remotely support your imaginative version of events. Lets get the facts right, Bonnet log (information room) timed at 03.26hrs, West log (control room) timed at 03.36hrs, HOLTBY - SMITH claims control room clock inaccurate by 5 minutes, plus, or minus. Conclusion, West could not have called Bonnet any sooner than 03.31hrs...

No-one has suggested at any stage, that the information room clock was inaccurate, so we have to accept that the timing of Ralph Bambers Bonnet log (03.26hrs) either commenced, or concluded at precisely that (03.26hrs) time...