Author Topic: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?  (Read 28855 times)

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Offline Caroline

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #255 on: September 09, 2015, 06:57:PM »
Why is that nonsense ? If he was innocent why on earth would he think he was going to become a suspect . Why would he know all the times - Julie herself said he did not wear a watch in bed.

It is the opposite which should occur to you - if he was guilty he would have made sure every part of his story was  watertight and be prepared for questions about timings .

It reminds me a bit in those newspapers where it said the police believed Jeremy when he told them Sheila had done it. He never said that  he never said a shot had been fired even . He never said she was capable of violence when he was outside . He said she was ill - he said the name of the illness.All true.

Why is he saying that the initial times are now correct if he didn't pay too much attention at the time?

If all murderers made sure that their stories were water tight, how come most of them get caught? He didn't know what he was going to be asked so how could he plan for every eventuality. You only think those things are obvious because you have the benefit of hindsight.

How do you know what he said/didn't say?
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Offline susan

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #256 on: September 09, 2015, 07:08:PM »
Except he confirmed that what he said in his first statement was correct and made a big thing about saying so in his interrogation. I'm simply telling you I asked him, if you want answers to your own questions then have the courage of your convictions, get your thumb out and ask him yourself. I'm sharing with people what I was told, I don't bloody have to and if what he told me isn't good enough for you - then you best take it up with HIM!  >:( >:(

Caroline the majority of us really appreciate that you share with us information received from Jeremy in your correspondence with him,.

Offline Jane

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #257 on: September 09, 2015, 07:09:PM »
Why is that nonsense ? If he was innocent why on earth would he think he was going to become a suspect . Why would he know all the times - Julie herself said he did not wear a watch in bed.

It is the opposite which should occur to you - if he was guilty he would have made sure every part of his story was  watertight and be prepared for questions about timings .

It reminds me a bit in those newspapers where it said the police believed Jeremy when he told them Sheila had done it. He never said that  he never said a shot had been fired even . He never said she was capable of violence when he was outside . He said she was ill - he said the name of the illness.All true.


He may have been able to get HIS part in the drama right but there was no way he could guarantee getting right the other players parts. That was out of his hands.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #258 on: September 09, 2015, 07:13:PM »
Why is that nonsense ? If he was innocent why on earth would he think he was going to become a suspect . Why would he know all the times - Julie herself said he did not wear a watch in bed.

It is the opposite which should occur to you - if he was guilty he would have made sure every part of his story was  watertight and be prepared for questions about timings .

It reminds me a bit in those newspapers where it said the police believed Jeremy when he told them Sheila had done it. He never said that  he never said a shot had been fired even . He never said she was capable of violence when he was outside . He said she was ill - he said the name of the illness.All true.

It is nonsense because:

1) everyone signing a statement under oath is understanding that they are coming up with a story that is supposed to be accurate.  The notion that only in hindsight could he figure that out is absurd.

2) Jeremy intentionally decided what he would claim.  It wasn't some accident that he claimed he called police immediately and he stuck by that.  He sticks by it to this day.

Reader couldn't care less about the truth reader makes up his own crap including making up that Jeremy said he called Witham then Julie then Chelmsford.  Reader is as dishonest as Mike.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Jan

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #259 on: September 09, 2015, 10:34:PM »
I know you are all going to take this the wrong way ( because that's what will happen )  but like you say people should not take things personally - But how can you have accepted what he was saying was possibly true when you believed he was innocent - but now its obviously not the truth. Was it not obvious before?

One minute he nearly got away with planning the mass murder  next he appears to be the most stupid and bungling criminal ever.

None of us know what he was thinking or whether his plans were just stupid it seems to me like a matter of interpretation most of the time and because it seems now there are more shouting about his guilt I am just proposing the alternative although I am in fact still asking questions . But if we don't have the chance to post opposing views we don't have discussion .

« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 10:35:PM by Jan »

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #260 on: September 10, 2015, 12:10:AM »
I know you are all going to take this the wrong way ( because that's what will happen )  but like you say people should not take things personally - But how can you have accepted what he was saying was possibly true when you believed he was innocent - but now its obviously not the truth. Was it not obvious before?

One minute he nearly got away with planning the mass murder  next he appears to be the most stupid and bungling criminal ever.

None of us know what he was thinking or whether his plans were just stupid it seems to me like a matter of interpretation most of the time and because it seems now there are more shouting about his guilt I am just proposing the alternative although I am in fact still asking questions . But if we don't have the chance to post opposing views we don't have discussion .

Luck plays a great deal in it.  He got lucky in that Taff Jones overlooked so many problems.  He got lucky that Julie didn't rat him out right away. That luck ran out though.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 02:30:AM by scipio_usmc »
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Offline Adam

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #261 on: September 10, 2015, 12:17:AM »
Why is he saying that the initial times are now correct if he didn't pay too much attention at the time?

If all murderers made sure that their stories were water tight, how come most of them get caught? He didn't know what he was going to be asked so how could he plan for every eventuality. You only think those things are obvious because you have the benefit of hindsight.

How do you know what he said/didn't say?

Bamber may have assumed he wouldn't even be a suspect. It was murder/suicide and Bamber had no criminal record.

However once he is a suspect he is up against literally dozens of people. All looking for incriminating evidence, either circumstantial or forensic. Police, experts, in this case even the relatives looked for evidence. His every move checked and extensive interviews carried out.

The people that looked for evidence, found a lot. Why ? Because Bamber was guilty and Sheila was not.

After 30 years, the perfect crime looks very dumb. Which matches the fact that Bamber was not an experienced criminal or especially intelligent. No matter how much planning he did, it was not enough.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 12:26:AM by Adam »
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Offline Caroline

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #262 on: September 10, 2015, 12:40:AM »
I know you are all going to take this the wrong way ( because that's what will happen )  but like you say people should not take things personally - But how can you have accepted what he was saying was possibly true when you believed he was innocent - but now its obviously not the truth. Was it not obvious before?

One minute he nearly got away with planning the mass murder  next he appears to be the most stupid and bungling criminal ever.

None of us know what he was thinking or whether his plans were just stupid it seems to me like a matter of interpretation most of the time and because it seems now there are more shouting about his guilt I am just proposing the alternative although I am in fact still asking questions . But if we don't have the chance to post opposing views we don't have discussion .

I think this must be aimed at me. The ONLY reason I questioned his guilt was because of Crimes that Shook Britain and because it highlighted certain discrepancies (such as one dead male, one dead female etc.) it made me wonder if he could be innocent. Like others who have been influenced by the 'so called' new evidence, I questioned it and for a time, I did think he might be really innocent. AND THEN - having asked Jeremy several things, over the course of 2 years, I realised that he picked and chose what to answer and would totally disregard the things that might put him in a bad light. I began to have doubts, especially about the phone call and Jeremy's evasiveness certainly didn't help. I then found myself making excuses for things I didn't actually believe myself and most of those things could be put down to simple admin errors. What sealed it for me was him changing the times of the phone calls to fit in  a call from Neville, his canny ability to avoid answering certain questions and the photograph of Sheila which proves to me that she had been dead for quite some time.

I don't think anyone is stopping anyone arguing an opposing view?
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Offline Adam

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #263 on: September 10, 2015, 12:51:AM »
I think this must be aimed at me. The ONLY reason I questioned his guilt was because of Crimes that Shook Britain and because it highlighted certain discrepancies (such as one dead male, one dead female etc.) it made me wonder if he could be innocent. Like others who have been influenced by the 'so called' new evidence, I questioned it and for a time, I did think he might be really innocent. AND THEN - having asked Jeremy several things, over the course of 2 years, I realised that he picked and chose what to answer and would totally disregard the things that might put him in a bad light. I began to have doubts, especially about the phone call and Jeremy's evasiveness certainly didn't help. I then found myself making excuses for things I didn't actually believe myself and most of those things could be put down to simple admin errors. What sealed it for me was him changing the times of the phone calls to fit in  a call from Neville, his canny ability to avoid answering certain questions and the photograph of Sheila which proves to me that she had been dead for quite some time.

I don't think anyone is stopping anyone arguing an opposing view?

The only thing the CTSB video mentioned was movement inside WHF ( which Bamber may have seen), the two bodies and the silencer. The two bodies is easily explained and there is enough evidence without the silencer anyway.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Patti

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #264 on: September 10, 2015, 12:51:AM »
Luck plays a great deal in it.  He got lucky in that Taff Jones overlooked so many problems.  He got lucky that Julie didn't rat him out right away. That luck out though.

Hi Scip

Not sure what you mean about Jones overlooked so many problems.  Not even sure what you mean about Julie did not rat him out right away?

It is unfortunate that the during the trial that it was not emphasized enough that Jones did an examination of the windows and deemed them to be secure, meaning they were closed and fastened.  It is my opinion that a window cannot be locked and secured from the outside, especially sash corded windows.

It is not luck that plays a part in this case it is facts and the fact is that there were 3 extensive examinations of those windows and it was not until the 3rd examination see RWC/8 that it was identified that a catch was marked on the 28th September 1985.  Given the fact that JB entered that window on the 16th September 1985 there is a suspicion that there was an after the fact conclusion that JB had entered that window on the night of the murders and basically that was not correct. It was only on the 3rd examination that this was noted.  This means that this evidence is unsafe for it it logged that JB entered the house via this window after 2 full extensive examinations had already taken place, where no evidence was found on this particular window....So, it is seems!  ;) ;D

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #265 on: September 10, 2015, 03:01:AM »
Hi Scip

Not sure what you mean about Jones overlooked so many problems.  Not even sure what you mean about Julie did not rat him out right away?

It is unfortunate that the during the trial that it was not emphasized enough that Jones did an examination of the windows and deemed them to be secure, meaning they were closed and fastened.  It is my opinion that a window cannot be locked and secured from the outside, especially sash corded windows.

It is not luck that plays a part in this case it is facts and the fact is that there were 3 extensive examinations of those windows and it was not until the 3rd examination see RWC/8 that it was identified that a catch was marked on the 28th September 1985.  Given the fact that JB entered that window on the 16th September 1985 there is a suspicion that there was an after the fact conclusion that JB had entered that window on the night of the murders and basically that was not correct. It was only on the 3rd examination that this was noted.  This means that this evidence is unsafe for it it logged that JB entered the house via this window after 2 full extensive examinations had already taken place, where no evidence was found on this particular window....So, it is seems!  ;) ;D

I mean exactly what I said about Jeremy being lucky.  If Julie told police that first day what she said a month later it would have changed the police approach to things.   

Since she didn't Taff Jones simply took all of Jeremy's claims at face value and that he did so was lucky.  Taff Jones totally ignored evidence that suggested Nevill was shot in the bedroom and decided straight away that Nevill was attacked in the kitchen while on the phone.  I have highlighted in other threads how off his reading of the crime scene truly was. The firearms officers didn't agree with his reading but it was his call not theirs.

He was lucky that police didn't do a thorough search of the entire house.  They should have taken every bullet and firearm/firearm related item in the house.  They didn't though and this resulted in them not finding the moderator.  His luck ran out when the family turned it in.  Police might have went looking for it anyway after Julie came forward but still might not have we have no way to know for sure. 

When police determined he staged too many bullet sin the kitchen he was questioned about it, was unable to account for such and yet Taff Jones thought it unimportant.

Because the family said Sheila wasn't into guns Jeremy changed his tun and said he didn't know her to ever fire a weapon.  The change set off no red flags.  Taff Jones ignored that he told numerous police she used all weapons in the house and that he even trained her to use the murder weapon.  Taff Jones totally ignored that means she would nto have known how to use the murder weapon he simply decided since she lived on a farm she must know how to use the murder weapon though it was the first semi-auto they ever had and growing up she only would have seen shotguns being used.

When it became know that Jeremy could get in and out through the windows Taff Jones decided to ignore such.

These are all things that should have set off red flags but were completely ignored and that is just plain luck that Jones ignored such and was so convinced.  You could just as easily get a cop who would be the biggest cynic there is. Jones was a lower rank than should have been the lead investigator for such a serious crime, that was extra lucky then that Jones was in charge.  But as I said his luck ran out. The reinvestigation started before Julie came forward. The amount of red flags resulted in the decision to replace Jones. They did so by placing someone above him of the rank that should have been in charge all along.  So his luck had already run out on the moderator and Jones being replaced by the time the last bit of luck was gone and Julie ratted him out.

But for his luck not changing he could have gotten away with things.

What if Jones remained in charge, the moderator was not re-sent to the lab for further examination and Julie had not ratted him out?  Police might have concluded it was murder suicide and he goes free.  Sheer luck played a big role in the final outcome.

As for the window, all Jones didn't go examine the outside of the window for scratches nor did others examine them closely for scratches until months later. That being the case there is no way to know whether the marks were there or not at the time of the murders but it makes no difference.  If Jeremy made the mark in September but didn't make any marks when going through it the times prior that doesn't help him at all.  That effectively says he had the ability to get in without scratching the window so not finding any would not disprove he went through it.  He admitted he had gone through it anyway which is the ball of wax.  His great defense was no one could get in so it had to be limited to the parties inside.  He admitted there was a way in and he knew about it and had used it in the past.  That really took apart the whole defense about the events having to be limited to the 5 victims.



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Offline vidvic

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #266 on: September 10, 2015, 07:23:AM »
Hi Scip

Not sure what you mean about Jones overlooked so many problems.  Not even sure what you mean about Julie did not rat him out right away?

It is unfortunate that the during the trial that it was not emphasized enough that Jones did an examination of the windows and deemed them to be secure, meaning they were closed and fastened.  It is my opinion that a window cannot be locked and secured from the outside, especially sash corded windows.

It is not luck that plays a part in this case it is facts and the fact is that there were 3 extensive examinations of those windows and it was not until the 3rd examination see RWC/8 that it was identified that a catch was marked on the 28th September 1985.  Given the fact that JB entered that window on the 16th September 1985 there is a suspicion that there was an after the fact conclusion that JB had entered that window on the night of the murders and basically that was not correct. It was only on the 3rd examination that this was noted.  This means that this evidence is unsafe for it it logged that JB entered the house via this window after 2 full extensive examinations had already taken place, where no evidence was found on this particular window....So, it is seems!  ;) ;D

Hi patti,
I think what convinced me almost immediately that Bamber was guilty was the windows.

A large part of His defence was the fact the farmhouse had appeared locked from the inside, yet just as he was beginning to realise he was a suspect, he proved that you could get in and out using the dodgy catch.

I have always believed that he did this in an attempt to corrupt his own crime scene fearing what the police might find in and around that window. I believe he thought at that time that he might even be followed.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 07:25:AM by vidvic »
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Offline Adam

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #267 on: September 10, 2015, 10:11:AM »
Hi patti,
I think what convinced me almost immediately that Bamber was guilty was the windows.

A large part of His defence was the fact the farmhouse had appeared locked from the inside, yet just as he was beginning to realise he was a suspect, he proved that you could get in and out using the dodgy catch.

I have always believed that he did this in an attempt to corrupt his own crime scene fearing what the police might find in and around that window. I believe he thought at that time that he might even be followed.

As far as getting into WHF by windows, only one source is really needed, Bamber himself. He happily obliged when interviewed by police. Saying he could get into WHF through three sets of windows.

Bamber denied knowing the kitchen window could be shut from outside. However there are 20 sources which says it can.

The OS and Bamber have not mentioned the windows since conviction.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 10:21:AM by Adam »
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Offline lookout

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #268 on: September 10, 2015, 11:47:AM »
All the more reason that the window in question SHOULD have been scrutinized for fibres,sweat,etc etc and thoroughly investigated if they'd wanted a 100% conviction. Instead of that,there were two people who'd stopped it from becoming a unanimous decision.
Did EP ever prove that Jeremy exited that window?

Offline Caroline

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #269 on: September 10, 2015, 11:54:AM »
All the more reason that the window in question SHOULD have been scrutinized for fibres,sweat,etc etc and thoroughly investigated if they'd wanted a 100% conviction. Instead of that,there were two people who'd stopped it from becoming a unanimous decision.
Did EP ever prove that Jeremy exited that window?

Nothig was scrutinised in the beginning because Jeremy's set-up allowed crucial evidence to be destroyed. They didn't have to prove he left by a particular window, just demonstrate that it was possible.
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