The 3am telephone call. What was said ?

[lookout]

" The folks who know the truth aren't talking---------The ones who don't have a clue,you can't shut them up "! ----Tom Waits.

[maggie]

You are arguing what she morally SHOULD have done.  No one disputes that if you are aware a love done committed a crime turning them in is the just thing to do but no one can know what they will do in such a situation and plenty of people do the immoral thing of playing dumb or even actively trying to help their loved one escape liability for crimes.  They don't want the pain of losing their loved one to prison.

Their are exceptional people who don't bat an eyelash and immediately turn in their loved ones even their kids.  But most take time to decide what to do and many end up deciding to turn a blind eye and remain silent. Others decide to actively help protect them. 

Until actually in the situation no one can know what they will do. I've been robbed in the past and I pulled a knife on the perp and literally scared the piss out of him. I KNEW what he stuck in my back wasn't a gun though. I just knew from the feel of it that it wasn't. It wound up being a stubby cellphone antenna. Since I knew it wasn't really a gun and that I had a knife I had no fear in confronting him.  I have had training disarming people. I still can't know for sure how I will react in a situation where someone robs me and I know they have a gun.  I wasn't in that exact situation before so can't predict my reaction. Practice disarming with a fake gun is not the same as trying it with a loaded weapon.

There is no such thing as practicing for the emotional turmoil involved in ratting out a loved one. The choice is easier in a situation where your loved one is a psychopath who rapes and murders at will and will keep doing it.  In a situation where you think it was a one time thing and the person poses little threat to anyone or only a threat to gangsters and people you can rationalize as being deserving it is harder. Julie didn't think Jeremy posed a danger to anyone else. He had his family killed for money. She didn't see him being in that kind of a position ever again.

Through college and law school I knew people who shoplifted, did drugs and other illegal things.  Did I run to police to rat any out?  No. If I knew anyone who was guilty of a violent crime that would have been different that is significant enough to rat out but what if the person is extremely close to you and them being in prison will pain you greatly? What do you do then it is a quandary.

One of the best lines in Scent of a Woman was when Pacino said, "I always knew what the right path was. Without exception I knew. But I never took it. You know why? It was too damn hard." It is so poignant and easy to remember because it is often true.

Exactly but so many people claim to know how they would behave in the situation Jeremy Bamber claimed to be in when his Dad called him.  |No one knows until it happens o them how they will behave and the same person may react differently on a different day, at a different time etc.

[lookout]

 "All truth passes through 3 stages.First it is ridiculed.Secondly it is violently opposed.Third it is accepted as self-evident "-------Arthur Schopenhauer.

[guest2181]

" The folks who know the truth aren't talking---------The ones who don't have a clue,you can't shut them up "! ----Tom Waits.

You're very vocal. 

[Jan]

From Scipio

"It is easy to say that when you are not in the situation.  It is far more difficult to actually follow through with what you claim you will categorically do.  I know someone who said that if someone tried to rob him that he would paralyze the SOB. Years later he was robbed and did nothing.  Talk is cheap. "


So if you are going to use that argument  that's why people should not assume what Jeremy would or would not have done when he got the call.

That's why people should not assume what Neville would have done if a shot had not been fired when he made the call.

On the other side - to show I am not biased we should not assume what the police should have done when they arrived ( although if it was my children in the house and they had heard or seen nothing I would have been annoyed to put it politely )

[Jan]

She didn't change what he said, she added things he said which she failed to disclose in August.

In August she failed to disclose that during the 3AM call he had said things were going well and he was up all night.  She failed to disclose that in the prior 10PM call he sounded pissed, said tonight was the night and also said she might be hearing from him again later.  She also failed to disclose he had been talking about killing them for a quite a while.

rubbish - the first statement corresponded with what he said  - so meant he was telling the truth and was innocent

the second statement implicated him. Its as clear as day.

[Jan]

I just agreed with him when he said none of us know how we would behave until faced with a situation......   not the rest 

I could find his post to use as a quote 

I know what you meant.

[Jan]

We do know. Because Julie has told us. Bamber hasn't. So we have to go by Julie.

Did you not read my thread about why Julie waited one month ?

He said in his first statement her called her to say there was something wrong at the farm . which corresponds exactly with what she said in her first statement except she ignored him and told him to go back to bed . surprising what people do when they are woken up in the middle of the night is it not?

probably the pot making her not think straight - or was she just shocked at the cqll and not thinking logically?

[maggie]

I could find his post to use as a quote 

I know what you meant.

   

[scipio_usmc]

Exactly but so many people claim to know how they would behave in the situation Jeremy Bamber claimed to be in when his Dad called him.  |No one knows until it happens o them how they will behave and the same person may react differently on a different day, at a different time etc.

There is a world of difference between saying you will definitely turn in a loved one instantly no matter what as opposed to saying if you received the distress call Jeremy claimed to receive you would either go there or 999. You might not have the guts to go there but if you did lack such guts you would call 999 not call someone who doesn't care about the victims then go get a phone book to call various police stations.

[maggie]

There is a world of difference between saying you will definitely turn in a loved one instantly no matter what as opposed to saying if you received the distress call Jeremy claimed to receive you would either go there or 999. You might not have the guts to go there but if you did lack such guts you would call 999 not call someone who doesn't care about the victims then go get a phone book to call various police stations.

No there is not a world of difference, so many say they would jump in the car and go over there etc. dial 999 whatever.  Nobody knows what they would do in any circumstance until they are in it.  That is a fact, you have just stated it yourself in a post but now are denying it because it doesn't suit your theory.  Sorry scipio but you can't have it both ways, I am not saying this to prove me right or because of any theory I may have and you are wrong, I am saying it because it's fact imo whether he killed them or not.

[scipio_usmc]

No there is not a world of difference, so many say they would jump in the car and go over there etc. dial 999 whatever.  Nobody knows what they would do in any circumstance until they are in it.  That is a fact, you have just stated it yourself in a post but now are denying it because it doesn't suit your theory.  Sorry scipio but you can't have it both ways, I am not saying this to prove me right or because of any theory I may have and you are wrong, I am saying it because it's fact imo whether he killed them or not.

If my parents called claiming my brother was running around with a gun I KNOW I would do one of the following:

1) go over with on of my own weapons

or

2) call 911 telling them the situation and that I am going there with my gun so they are aware of wha tis going on

or

3) call 911 and go over without a weapon to be there to see what happens if not assist the police in some way such as trying to talk my brother out.

I know I would not do nothing. I know I would go over there or call 911 and go over.

I can't be sure whether I would go inside or not (it would depend on the exact circumstances encountered) but I know I would go over there to see what happens to my parents.  Even if I thought I could handle it myself I would I know I would be inclined to call 911 anyway because I want them alerted in case I did get hurt or in case I had to hurt someone so that they would be aware why and would have help on the way just in case it was needed.

Calling a girlfriend instead of getting dressed and rushing over or instead of calling 911 would not cross my mind.  Nor would I waste time looking up police numbers in a phone book. My township has its own police station but the main line is not for emergencies you call 911 for emergencies. This is common sense.

What one will do when faced with a moral dilemma is different.

[scipio_usmc]

rubbish - the first statement corresponded with what he said  - so meant he was telling the truth and was innocent

the second statement implicated him. Its as clear as day.

The rubbish is from you not me.

Her second statement ADDED things she failed to reveal she didn't change things. The things she added implicated him which is why she originally omitted them she wanted to protect him.

You don't want to face Jeremy is guilty so you simply decided that you choose to believe she made up the things that implicate him and try to pretend she changed things to further try to justify your belief she was lying.

You can ignore the evidence to your heart's content but it won't make such go away and won't change that all you do is make excuses to justify believing he is innocent as opposed to being able to point to anything that establishes he is innocent.

 

[Steve_uk]

If my parents called claiming my brother was running around with a gun I KNOW I would do one of the following:

1) go over with on of my own weapons

or

2) call 911 telling them the situation and that I am going there with my gun so they are aware of wha tis going on

or

3) call 911 and go over without a weapon to be there to see what happens if not assist the police in some way such as trying to talk my brother out.

I know I would not do nothing. I know I would go over there or call 911 and go over.

I can't be sure whether I would go inside or not (it would depend on the exact circumstances encountered) but I know I would go over there to see what happens to my parents.  Even if I thought I could handle it myself I would I know I would be inclined to call 911 anyway because I want them alerted in case I did get hurt or in case I had to hurt someone so that they would be aware why and would have help on the way just in case it was needed.

Calling a girlfriend instead of getting dressed and rushing over or instead of calling 911 would not cross my mind.  Nor would I waste time looking up police numbers in a phone book. My township has its own police station but the main line is not for emergencies you call 911 for emergencies. This is common sense.

What one will do when faced with a moral dilemma is different.

This is one of your better posts,but reading other posts from members today on different threads I come back to something which struck me in Carol Ann Lee's book regarding Malcolm Waters' comments about Jeremy:

"He sensed that Jeremy was easily led and susceptible to others..he was always looking for affection,especially from girls".

Julie fulfilled both criteria,and one has to wonder whether this was coincidence or deliberate policy on her part. It certainly might make some members put a different light on her whole role in the affair.

[maggie]

If my parents called claiming my brother was running around with a gun I KNOW I would do one of the following:

1) go over with on of my own weapons

or

2) call 911 telling them the situation and that I am going there with my gun so they are aware of wha tis going on

or

3) call 911 and go over without a weapon to be there to see what happens if not assist the police in some way such as trying to talk my brother out.

I know I would not do nothing. I know I would go over there or call 911 and go over.

I can't be sure whether I would go inside or not (it would depend on the exact circumstances encountered) but I know I would go over there to see what happens to my parents.  Even if I thought I could handle it myself I would I know I would be inclined to call 911 anyway because I want them alerted in case I did get hurt or in case I had to hurt someone so that they would be aware why and would have help on the way just in case it was needed.

Calling a girlfriend instead of getting dressed and rushing over or instead of calling 911 would not cross my mind.  Nor would I waste time looking up police numbers in a phone book. My township has its own police station but the main line is not for emergencies you call 911 for emergencies. This is common sense.

What one will do when faced with a moral dilemma is different.

Everyone is different you can only say what you believe you will do but you can't even be sure about that. I'm not saying this to prove anything just saying...