The 3am telephone call. What was said ?

[Jane]

That was the call on the evening of the 6th not the call after the murders. The call to her after the murders ended up backfiring and being suspicious but had to be short because if it were long it would be even more obvious it was a farce.

What is clear from the 17 minute call is he was pissed off about the tribulations of farm work and that helped convince himself to go through with the murders.

I don't recall saying anything to the contrary. I set out (almost) verbatim how CAL had provided for both calls/timings and what Julie said were the words which passed between her and Jeremy.

[lookout]

 She would not have gone back to bed IF he told her he was going to kill his family. Nobody would have.

[Jane]

She would not have gone back to bed IF he told her he was going to kill his family. Nobody would have.

But she'd known for the best part of a year what was on his mind and they'd both been with Sheila at the weekend so they'd both have witnessed how low she was. I imagine that it would have formed part of the conversation during the 1.50/2 hr journey back to Goldhanger.

[Adam]

But she'd known for the best part of a year what was on his mind and they'd both been with Sheila at the weekend so they'd both have witnessed how low she was. I imagine that it would have formed part of the conversation during the 1.50/2 hr journey back to Goldhanger.

You keep talking about the journey back to Goldhanger.

If Bamber had spoken about his plans then, Julie would have mentioned it in her WS.

She spoke about all his plans months, weeks and hours before the massacre.

She didn't believe Bamber would do anything. That is why she was sleeping. At 3am. Bamber wasn't !

[Jan]

You keep talking about the journey back to Goldhanger.

If Bamber had spoken about his plans then, Julie would have mentioned it in her WS.

She spoke about all his plans months, weeks and hours before the massacre.

She didn't believe Bamber would do anything. That is why she was sleeping. At 3am. Bamber wasn't !

`

So she was quite happy to marry a man who spoke about poisoning burning drugging and hiring a hit man - and  had explained why he had to kill the children. Nice.

And she must have a  pretty good idea he meant it, to suddenly come to the conclusion he had murdered them all on the very night he did it.

[lookout]

But she'd known for the best part of a year what was on his mind and they'd both been with Sheila at the weekend so they'd both have witnessed how low she was. I imagine that it would have formed part of the conversation during the 1.50/2 hr journey back to Goldhanger.

How do we know she'd known really and wasn't just using a possible/alleged remark that Jeremy was so often coming out with,which he was reknowned for ? His father by all accounts was a joker. 

[Adam]

`

So she was quite happy to marry a man who spoke about poisoning burning drugging and hiring a hit man - and  had explained why he had to kill the children. Nice.

And she must have a  pretty good idea he meant it, to suddenly come to the conclusion he had murdered them all on the very night he did it.

Well he rang her at 3am and said 'Everything is going well, there is something wrong at the farm. I haven't slept all night. Love you lots'.

What was she going to think ?

Unless you can think of what else he may have said. Which was why the thread was created.

[Jane]

You keep talking about the journey back to Goldhanger.

If Bamber had spoken about his plans then, Julie would have mentioned it in her WS.

She spoke about all his plans months, weeks and hours before the massacre.

She didn't believe Bamber would do anything. That is why she was sleeping. At 3am. Bamber wasn't !

You're missing the point, Adam. She could talk about him saying he was going to do it when it was all a bit fuzzy, just an idea he was playing with. It would have been an entirely different thing -and would have made her much more complicit had she not warned someone- to admit that he'd said, as late as three days prior to the massacre, that he said he'd have to do it that week because they'd all be under one roof at the farm. Knowing what his plans were for them all and knowing that they were all going to be at the farm that week, I think most girls would have been terrified of what MIGHT happen. You seem to think Julie was able to sleep...................like a log, perhaps?

[notsure]

Jan i think she was telling the truth in the statement you have posted too. It flows like a proper conversation. The one where he is supposed to have said all is goung well just sounds completely odd to me.

[Adam]

You're missing the point, Adam. She could talk about him saying he was going to do it when it was all a bit fuzzy, just an idea he was playing with. It would have been an entirely different thing -and would have made her much more complicit had she not warned someone- to admit that he'd said, as late as three days prior to the massacre, that he said he'd have to do it that week because they'd all be under one roof at the farm. Knowing what his plans were for them all and knowing that they were all going to be at the farm that week, I think most girls would have been terrified of what MIGHT happen. You seem to think Julie was able to sleep...................like a log, perhaps?

Well he brought the bike over just before the massacre. And told Julie he planned to do a trial run. He had also told her he planned to use Sheila as a scapegoat.

No matter what he said to Julie, or how he said it, she was never going to believe he would do it. It was killing his own family and risking life in prison. One of the worst crimes the country has  seen.

Even if 1% of believed he might do it, she still loved Jeremy and was his girlfriend. So would not tell anyone.

[lookout]

It obviously suited Julie at the time to think of all the " jokes/jests/phrases " from the past,when clearly that's what they were,but those jokes/jests and phrases are easily turned into something sinister to fit an occasion which is what happened. They were conveniently twisted. No doubt Jeremy DID say half of what she said he did,but certainly not in a meaningful way which she'd have been fully aware of at the time,and what she said in court WAS the truth,but the meaning was entirely different then.

[Jane]

Well he brought the bike over just before the massacre. And told Julie he planned to do a trial run. He had also told her he planned to use Sheila as a scapegoat.

No matter what he said to Julie, or how he said it, she was never going to believe he would do it. It was killing his own family and risking life in prison. One of the worst crimes the country has  seen.

Even if 1% of believed he might do it, she still loved Jeremy and was his girlfriend. So would not tell anyone.

I think over time she HAD to have become suspicious -she had a brain- but I'm very certain that fact will stay between her and her priest/therapist.

[lookout]

It puts me in mind of the sketch on the Morecambe and Wise Show with Andre Previn,when Eric Morecambe played the piano out of key. He then said he WAS playing all the right notes,but NOT necessarily in the right order.

[Caroline]

It obviously suited Julie at the time to think of all the " jokes/jests/phrases " from the past,when clearly that's what they were,but those jokes/jests and phrases are easily turned into something sinister to fit an occasion which is what happened. They were conveniently twisted. No doubt Jeremy DID say half of what she said he did,but certainly not in a meaningful way which she'd have been fully aware of at the time,and what she said in court WAS the truth,but the meaning was entirely different then.

Jokes? That's truly pushing the boundaries of desperation Lookout - who jokes about killing their parents to that degree?

[Jane]

It obviously suited Julie at the time to think of all the " jokes/jests/phrases " from the past,when clearly that's what they were,but those jokes/jests and phrases are easily turned into something sinister to fit an occasion which is what happened. They were conveniently twisted. No doubt Jeremy DID say half of what she said he did,but certainly not in a meaningful way which she'd have been fully aware of at the time,and what she said in court WAS the truth,but the meaning was entirely different then.

I can think of no possible way in which the killing of two small boys because they're seen as being a mill stone round their father's neck, can be seen as a joke.