The 3am telephone call. What was said ?

[Jane]

Just trying to determine if there is a credible reason for Jeremy phoning Julie. At 3am. And what he said.

He eventually remembered why he phoned her, telling the court it was 'to hear a friendly voice'. Although he had said 'no comment' to the police.

Reader says Bamber cannot remember what he said but remembers he didn't say 'I've not slept all night'. This is surprising as Bamber made a decision to phone Julie, so you would think he would remember why he called her and what he said. He could remember what TV programmes he had watched that night.

Lookout had nibble earlier in the thread but didn't say what Bamber may have said. Ditto Jan.

As mentioned if Julies flatmates can confirm the call time is a minute or less, that backs up Julie's statement that Bamber just rang her to give an information update. Julie, half asleep dismissing it.

OK. According to CAL, the 10pm call told Julie "........The crime will have to be tonight or never" after which she told him not to be so stupid and the conversation continued, each telling the other about their respective days. He timed the call as lasting 17 minutes. After the call had ended she realized that by "crime" he'd meant killing his family.

The next call, circa 3.15, appears to have been answered by Julie. "I got out of bed and went to the phone on the landing and said "Hello" I felt very dozy. I suppose I was only half awake" He said "Everything is going well. Not to worry. There is something wrong at the farm" He told her he hadn't been to bed all night "I told him simply to go to bed" She got into bed and realized "In my view he was telling me they were all dead"........................DISCUSS.

[Adam]

OK. According to CAL, the 10pm call told Julie "........The crime will have to be tonight or never" after which she told him not to be so stupid and the conversation continued, each telling the other about their respective days. He timed the call as lasting 17 minutes. After the call had ended she realized that by "crime" he'd meant killing his family.

The next call, circa 3.15, appears to have been answered by Julie. "I got out of bed and went to the phone on the landing and said "Hello" I felt very dozy. I suppose I was only half awake" He said "Everything is going well. Not to worry. There is something wrong at the farm" He told her he hadn't been to bed all night "I told him simply to go to bed" She got into bed and realized "In my view he was telling me they were all dead"........................DISCUSS.

CAL spent three years engaging with Bamber.

Did Bamber not tell her what was said in this conversation ? Or did he just agree with Julie's version ?

He should have given his version but CAL and Caroline said he doesn't like answering difficult questions. A pity as everyone would find his version interesting.

It seems he knows that no matter what he claims to have said in this conversation, it would not benefit him. So best to just bury it.

[Jane]

CAL spent three years engaging with Bamber.

Did Bamber not tell her what was said in this conversation ? Or did he just agree with Julie's version ?

He should have given his version but CAL and Caroline said he doesn't like answering difficult questions. A pity as everyone would find his version interesting.

It seems he knows that no matter what he claims to have said in this conversation, it would not benefit him. So best to just bury it.

I'm curious to know what was said in those first 17 minutes. I fail to see how it could just have been small talk after he'd told her ".................Tonight or never."

[Adam]

Forget about Julie putting herself up there to be shot at. I have done the same thing. Suggesting how the conversation could have gone when Jeremy wanted to hear a friendly voice.

Although it's just as possible Julie would have tried to give him emotional support making the call a long one. Bamber was certainly hoping and expecting this. But this didn't happen as Bamber arrived at WHF at 3.48am.

[Adam]

I'm curious to know what was said in those first 17 minutes. I fail to see how it could just have been small talk after he'd told her ".................Tonight or never."

Julie's WS goes into detail of what was said. Seventeen minutes is not that long between boy and girlfriend. Jeremy has always been very evasive on what was said.

Bamber may have said 'tonight's the night' etc at the end of the call. If not Julie dismissed it anyway and probably just carried on speaking as normal.

Some of the 17 minutes would be Bamber saying how 'pissed off' he was and that he had been 'thinking about the crime all day'.

[Adam]

Well it seems after 3 years engaging with CAL, Bamber has not expanded on the 3am call to Julie. Was anyone expecting him to ? I wasn't but always optimistic.

Lookout, Jan etc, it's time for you to go into bat for team Bamber. 

Julie's version is still the only one out there. It's also credible, supports the guilty verdict and has never been attacked by Bamber.

[Adam]

If Bamber 'wanted to hear a friendly voice', he obviously wanted a conversation with Julie. Whether this be five minutes or 20.

He really wasn't in a hurry to meet the police and assist Neville, was he ? But what's the rush, Neville would sort everything out, wouldn't he ?

[Jane]

Julie's WS goes into detail of what was said. Seventeen minutes is not that long between boy and girlfriend. Jeremy has always been very evasive on what was said.

Bamber may have said 'tonight's the night' etc at the end of the call. If not Julie dismissed it anyway and probably just carried on speaking as normal.

Some of the 17 minutes would be Bamber saying how 'pissed off' he was and that he had been 'thinking about the crime all day'.

17 mins is a VERY long time to indulge in small talk if one has just learned that the caller is about to kill his family -that sentence HAD to have gone on resonating- yet Julie only admits to "small talk."

I'm interested that you use "may" when you say "tonight's the night" may have been at the end of the call. It suggests that you "may" doubt Julie's version. Jeremy had already told her, at the beginning of the conversation, after she'd told him she'd had a wonderful day, about how he "had spent the entire day sitting in a tractor with the sun beating down".

[Adam]

17 mins is a VERY long time to indulge in small talk if one has just learned that the caller is about to kill his family -that sentence HAD to have gone on resonating- yet Julie only admits to "small talk."

I'm interested that you use "may" when you say "tonight's the night" may have been at the end of the call. It suggests that you "may" doubt Julie's version. Jeremy had already told her, at the beginning of the conversation, after she'd told him she'd had a wonderful day, about how he "had spent the entire day sitting in a tractor with the sun beating down".

I don't doubt her version. Again she has put herself up to be shot at. Giving details of what was said.

I can't remember whether she says Bamber said 'tonight's the night' etc at the beginning, middle or end of the conversation. Either way she just said 'don't be so stupid'.

I suspect Bamber said this at the middle or end. Julie told him what a good day she had just had. This would have been at the beginning of the conversation. Saying this after Bamber's negative comments is less likely as Bamber would have brought her down to his negative level.

[Jane]

I don't doubt her version. Again she has put herself up to be shot at. Giving details of what was said.

I can't remember whether she says Bamber said 'tonight's the night' etc at the beginning, middle or end of the conversation. Either way she just said 'don't be so stupid'.

I suspect Bamber said this at the middle or end. Julie told him what a good day she had just had. This would have been at the beginning of the conversation. Saying this after Bamber's negative comments is less likely as Bamber would have brought her down to his negative level.

The whole point, Adam, is that we DON'T know what was said. All we know is what Julie SAID was said, but what you appear to be doing is altering the sequence she gave. "Tonight's the night" came just after he talked about "sitting on the tractor with the sun beating down" to which she responded that he sounded pissed off, to which he replied by saying he'd been thinking and......................the conversation then went on to each expanding on their individual days. Allegedly.

[maggie]

CAL spent three years engaging with Bamber.

Did Bamber not tell her what was said in this conversation ? Or did he just agree with Julie's version ?

He should have given his version but CAL and Caroline said he doesn't like answering difficult questions. A pity as everyone would find his version interesting.

It seems he knows that no matter what he claims to have said in this conversation, it would not benefit him. So best to just bury it.

It was 30 years ago, Adam.  I am not surprised he can't remember if it isn't recorded ona statement.  I can think back 30 years at something of great importance in my life but cannot remember the words I used in conversation.  I don't think it proves anything either way.

[Adam]

The whole point, Adam, is that we DON'T know what was said. All we know is what Julie SAID was said, but what you appear to be doing is altering the sequence she gave. "Tonight's the night" came just after he talked about "sitting on the tractor with the sun beating down" to which she responded that he sounded pissed off, to which he replied by saying he'd been thinking and......................the conversation then went on to each expanding on their individual days. Allegedly.

We do know what was said. One of the two participants to the conversation has said in detail on her WS. Bamber has not really disputed this and did not want to discuss the conversation with the police.

I'm not altering any times. I don't believe it makes much difference when Bamber said 'tonight's the night', 'it's now or never' and 'I've been thinking about the crime all day'. Julie just dismissed it and would have carried on speaking.

However I suspect Julie told Bamber about her day first. She was in an upbeat mood so would be keen to divulge. 

[Jane]

It was 30 years ago, Adam.  I am not surprised he can't remember if it isn't recorded ona statement.  I can think back 30 years at something of great importance in my life but cannot remember the words I used in conversation.  I don't think it proves anything either way.

Welcome to the conversation, Maggie. It's somewhat trying to hold one with someone who asks the question "What was said" and proceeds to dispute everything but what he believed was the answer in the first place, which rather negates the need to ask it, doesn't it?

[Adam]

It was 30 years ago, Adam.  I am not surprised he can't remember if it isn't recorded ona statement.  I can think back 30 years at something of great importance in my life but cannot remember the words I used in conversation.  I don't think it proves anything either way.

The trouble is 30 years ago he made a concious decision to telephone Julie at 3am. So a few weeks later will know why he called her and what was said.

However he just said 'no comment' to police before giving a weak reason when testifying. Julie is able to say exactly what was said.

[Adam]

Has Bamber said anything to CAL about his 10pm phone call to Julie ? Surely he can discuss that during his 3 years of engagement.

Maybe Bamber was in a good mood after sitting on his tractor all day. After all he had just had supper with mum and dad.