Author Topic: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?  (Read 28789 times)

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Offline Jane

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2015, 09:58:PM »
It had been discussed. Julie said Bamber planned to use Sheila as a scapegoat. After abandoning the burning down  WHF plan.


But WHEN? My contention is that Julie was aware that at some time, during that week, it was likely that Jeremy, because everyone was where he needed them to be, was going to put his plan into action. It was one thing telling the police that he'd talked about doing it at some time. It would be something else entirely to say she knew he was going to do it at a given time and she'd done nothing about it.

Offline Adam

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2015, 10:05:PM »

But WHEN? My contention is that Julie was aware that at some time, during that week, it was likely that Jeremy, because everyone was where he needed them to be, was going to put his plan into action. It was one thing telling the police that he'd talked about doing it at some time. It would be something else entirely to say she knew he was going to do it at a given time and she'd done nothing about it.

Well Julie knew Bamber planned to use Sheila as a scapegoat. I assume she knew Sheila was staying at WHF that week.

She also knew Bamber had said 'tonight's the night' at 10pm.

She just didn't believe he would do anything. I mean kill his own mother, father, sister and two six year old's.

« Last Edit: September 06, 2015, 10:06:PM by Adam »
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Offline Adam

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2015, 10:16:PM »
As Bamber is so silent on this phone call, hopefully supporters can give more light on what Bamber actually may have said. Actual words please. That's what forums are for.

And why Julie just said 'Go back to bed'.


Julie is confident it was a short conversation of a minute or  less.  Bamber has never denied this. Surely he is not suggesting it was a five minute conversation. How could it be ? He had to arrive at WHF by 3.48am.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2015, 10:21:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2015, 10:25:PM »
Well Julie knew Bamber planned to use Sheila as a scapegoat. I assume she knew Sheila was staying at WHF that week.

She also knew Bamber had said 'tonight's the night' at 10pm.

She just didn't believe he would do anything. I mean kill his own mother, father, sister and two six year old's.

Given that Julie was with Jeremy when he took Sheila home from the party I think it highly likely she knew she'd be visiting the farm later that day. It's possible, given Sheila's low spirits and Jeremy's belief that the twins were a mill stone round Colin's neck, that his plan for them was spoken about during the journey back to Goldhanger. That may have been the point, during that conversation, at which she didn't believe he'd do anything moved up a notch to she thought he meant it, hoped he wouldn't but suspected he might. She couldn't have told the police that as little as three days prior to the massacre she'd suspected he'd do it. She wasn't capable of controlling what HE said during that call but she could control what she said so it wouldn't have been obvious to a listener what the call was about....................................Go back to bed.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2015, 10:30:PM »
Given that Julie was with Jeremy when he took Sheila home from the party I think it highly likely she knew she'd be visiting the farm later that day. It's possible, given Sheila's low spirits and Jeremy's belief that the twins were a mill stone round Colin's neck, that his plan for them was spoken about during the journey back to Goldhanger. That may have been the point, during that conversation, at which she didn't believe he'd do anything moved up a notch to she thought he meant it, hoped he wouldn't but suspected he might. She couldn't have told the police that as little as three days prior to the massacre she'd suspected he'd do it. She wasn't capable of controlling what HE said during that call but she could control what she said so it wouldn't have been obvious to a listener what the call was about....................................Go back to bed.

If Jeremy mentioned it in the car Julie would have said so.  She mentioned many other less recent occasions where he mentioned it. Doing so in the car would have provided substantial support for her claims.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Adam

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2015, 10:40:PM »
Given that Julie was with Jeremy when he took Sheila home from the party I think it highly likely she knew she'd be visiting the farm later that day. It's possible, given Sheila's low spirits and Jeremy's belief that the twins were a mill stone round Colin's neck, that his plan for them was spoken about during the journey back to Goldhanger. That may have been the point, during that conversation, at which she didn't believe he'd do anything moved up a notch to she thought he meant it, hoped he wouldn't but suspected he might. She couldn't have told the police that as little as three days prior to the massacre she'd suspected he'd do it. She wasn't capable of controlling what HE said during that call but she could control what she said so it wouldn't have been obvious to a listener what the call was about....................................Go back to bed.

So you think Julie is telling the truth about what Bamber said to her. And what she said to Bamber ?
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Offline Adam

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2015, 02:24:AM »
Supporters have claimed he phoned Julie for advice.

That is not credible and Bamber has not claimed this. He had already called the police and been told what to do. He was a lot older than Julie, it was his family and he was only 3 miles away from them. What advice could she give at 3am and would it be any different to what the police had said ?

So all he can say is he phoned Julie to 'hear a friendly voice'. At 3am. Which is just as unconvincing and something he has only said once. At trial.

It is much more likely that he was giving her a statement update.

It doesn't seem that Julie was expecting a call as she didn't answer the phone and had to be woken. Then just said 'go back to bed', which most people would say at 3am.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 02:47:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Reader

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2015, 03:14:AM »
It is perfectly plausible . . . Then ring Julie at 3am to tell her he 'hasn't slept all night'.
Why are you inventing things? The time wasn't given by anyone as 3am. At trial, it was concluded that the time of this call wasn't established precisely, and it could have been as late as 3:30am. Jeremy didn't remember what he said to Julie when he called her (after receiving Nevill's call), but, when interviewed in September 1985, he specifically denied telling her he hadn't slept all night. Jeremy didn't avoid questions about the call - he simply stated he didn't recall what he said to Julie. As he can't recall the details of the conversation, it's hardly surprising that the OS is "quiet" about those details. Julie's supposed recollection of what he said didn't "materialise" until she'd been interviewed dozens of times. You seem uninterested in the contents of all those interviews she had before she gave her released statement.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 10:41:AM by Reader »

Offline Adam

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2015, 04:41:AM »

309. Joanne Woad first made a statement on 16 September. In that statement she said that she thought the time was about 2 a.m. On 3 October, she made a further statement in which she explained why she had said about 2 a.m. She said:

"In my original statement I stated that this call was at 2 a.m. To be more precise I can add that when I awoke I remember looking at my digital radio/alarm clock at the foot of my bed and reading the hour figure as "2". I do not remember noting the minute reading and therefore the time could have been anywhere between 2 a.m. and 2.59 a.m."

310. In evidence Miss Woad gave precisely the same account and she would not accept in cross-examination that she was wrong.

311. The last of the flatmates, Susan Battersby, made a statement on 10 September. In that statement she said that she had been woken by the telephone and had looked at her radio clock and noticed that it was 3.15 a.m. She went on to point out that the time might not be accurate because she kept her clock 10 minutes fast. On 19 December, she made a further statement. In that statement she again referred to the telephone call being at 3.15 a.m. but later in the statement she said:

"I can say that sometime during the evening of Thursday 8 August 1985, I telephoned Julie at Jeremy's house in Goldhanger. I spoke to Julie in relation to the time of the telephone call from Jeremy to our flat during the early hours of Wednesday 7 August 1985. I told Julie that Jeremy had phoned her at 3.12 a.m. I can now remember that when I looked at my clock radio display, the time showed 3.12 a.m. Previously I had said the phone call was at 3.15 a.m. I am positive the time was 3.12 a.m. I was aware that Julie wanted to know the time of this phone call as she had phoned the flat trying to contact me that day when she spoke to Helen Eaton."

312. In her evidence to the jury Susan Battersby was adamant that the time shown by her clock was 3.12 a.m. and that she had kept her clock approximately 10 minutes fast. The prosecution supported her evidence about keeping the clock fast by calling evidence from her boyfriend and also by evidence from a police officer who had been to check the timing on her clock at a later date without forewarning her. In cross-examination the fact that she had originally said that the time was 3.15 a.m. was put to her. She explained that she had been quite nervous when she made her first statement and had not then appreciated the importance of giving the time exactly. Later she had thought about it and she could picture in her mind the time as being 3.12 a.m. and she remained certain that that was the time shown on the clock.

313. If the jury were to disbelieve the appellant's evidence as to the timing of the telephone call, it could only have been because they were sure about the evidence of one or other of Joanne Woad and Susan Battersby. They could have accepted both to be right because if Joanne Woad was right the time could have been 2.59 a.m. and no precise check had been made as to the accuracy of her clock. If Susan Battersby was right, it was at approximately 3.02 a.m. and whilst it was known that she kept her clock approximately 10 minutes fast there was some room for some slight variation.
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Offline Adam

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2015, 04:43:AM »
So it seems two people are certain the call was a long time before 3.26am.Between 2.00pm - 2.59 am or 3.02am. Even during cross examination these two people did not budge.

Other flatmates gave times varying from 3am - 3.30am.

But the jury must go by Battersby and Woad.

His call to Julie may have even been before Neville's call. Wait there, that's impossible, isn't it ?

Posters have to say the call was at 3am.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 09:27:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jan

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2015, 12:18:PM »
So it seems two people are certain the call was a long time before 3.26am.Between 2.00pm - 2.59 am or 3.02am. Even during cross examination these two people did not budge.

Other flatmates gave times varying from 3am - 3.30am.

But the jury must go by Battersby and Woad.

His call to Julie may have even been before Neville's call. Wait there, that's impossible, isn't it ?

Posters have to say the call was at 3am.

 you do realise they  had all been smoking pot?

Offline Jane

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2015, 12:23:PM »
you do realise they  had all been smoking pot?

Jan, I'm at a loss as to where Adam is trying to take this. He asks a question, then proceeds to apparently disagree with everything we've said.

Offline Adam

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2015, 12:56:PM »
Just trying to determine if there is a credible reason for Jeremy phoning Julie. At 3am. And what he said.

He eventually remembered why he phoned her, telling the court it was 'to hear a friendly voice'. Although he had said 'no comment' to the police.

Reader says Bamber cannot remember what he said but remembers he didn't say 'I've not slept all night'. This is surprising as Bamber made a decision to phone Julie, so you would think he would remember why he called her and what he said. He could remember what TV programmes he had watched that night.

Lookout had nibble earlier in the thread but didn't say what Bamber may have said. Ditto Jan.

As mentioned if Julies flatmates can confirm the call time is a minute or less, that backs up Julie's statement that Bamber just rang her to give an information update. Julie, half asleep dismissing it.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 12:59:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2015, 01:01:PM »
Julie put herself up there to be shot at.

Saying exactly what Bamber and she said to each other.

Bamber has never fired any shots at her on this issue.
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Offline Adam

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Re: The 3am telephone call. What was said ?
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2015, 01:14:PM »
I can't envisage a call because Jeremy wanted to hear a friendly voice. But I'll try.

'Hi, it's Jeremy. Sorry to wake you and you're flat mates at 3am.

'My dad's just rang. He said 'come quickly, Sheila's gone crazy and she's got the gun. I have rang Chelmsford police station who have told me to meet them at 'White House Farm'. I am worried that something terrible has happened'. Sheila's a loony'.

Julie -  'What time is it ? Are you serious ? Why have you rang me, I am in Lewisham ? It's not my family. Shouldn't you be going to meet the police ?'

Jeremy - 'I just wanted to hear a friendly voice'.

Julie - 'Go back to bed'.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 01:16:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.