The Kitchen Magazine rack

[scipio_usmc]

I wonder if Sheila was sneaking it somewhere in order to phone Christine so that nobody would listen in to the conversation.

You seem to be suggesting she unplugged the phone, wrapped the cord around it and was planning to take it to another room but heard someone coming so hid it.  Why would she need to hide it?  All she would need to do is say I am taking it for my room and will bring it back when I am done.

In any event there was no phone jack in her room, there were 3 phone jacks in the house- in kitchen (where that phone was), in the master bedroom and in the upstairs office.  All 3 had phones attached until the kitchen phone was hidden and the bedroom phone moved to replace it.


 

 

[maggie]

What if they heard him opening the window and used the phone to call police before he even had a chance to get inside to disable the phone?  The result of that would be that police could come there and catch him in the act or catch him leaving. That would be catastrophic.

People used to cut phone lines before they broke into a house for a reason.  With the dominance of cell phones criminals have it worse now and have to simply hope no one will call police before they can reach the victim.

OK that's a possibility but he could never have known if everyone was asleep anyway before he climbed through that window.  There were so many other risks as well, such as barking dogs , Neville for some reason changing his routine ........  I just dont believe he climbed through that window.

[maggie]

I think the whole conversation is hypothetical, about what you seem to think was Sheila's relationship with Christine. It's HIGHLY unlikely, given that Christine's family knew nothing of Sheila's existence, that she'd even have Christine's phone number. I think you're desperately trying to expand their relationship into something it never was.

I don't think Sheila would be in such close contact with Christine although no one knows for certain. Chances are the phone was dumped there at some time and buried under an ever growing pile of magazines and papers.

[scipio_usmc]

OK that's a possibility but he could never have known if everyone was asleep anyway before he climbed through that window.  There were so many other risks as well, such as barking dogs , Neville for some reason changing his routine ........  I just dont believe he climbed through that window.

He waited till late figuring they would be asleep.  Precisely because he removed the phone even if they heard him all they could do would be to walk downstairs and be shot upon encountering him, they would not be able to call police before he could kill them.  He removed the scope and loaded the gun in advance. He probably hid it in the bathroom or even somewhere outside the house so he could carry it with him through the window so he had instant access.  He didn't enter then go seek it from the closet and load it and remove the scope.           

[maggie]

He waited till late figuring they would be asleep.  Precisely because he removed the phone even if they heard him all they could do would be to walk downstairs and be shot upon encountering him, they would not be able to call police before he could kill them.  He removed the scope and loaded the gun in advance. He probably hid it in the bathroom or even somewhere outside the house so he could carry it with him through the window so he had instant access.  He didn't enter then go seek it from the closet and load it and remove the scope.         

Climbing through Windows into the unknown is a huge risk, he could guess all he liked but wouldn't know everyone was asleep. The outside dog would surely have barked, that's the point of them being outside isn't it?  Moving the bedroom phone is not that easy without someone seeing him. They may have moved it back when they went to bed.    
Of course,  it's almost certain he would have prepared the gun before if he had planned to murder that night, that is obvious.

[Adam]

Climbing through Windows into the unknown is a huge risk, he could guess all he liked but wouldn't know everyone was asleep. The outside dog would surely have barked, that's the point of them being outside isn't it?  Moving the bedroom phone is not that easy without someone seeing him. They may have moved it back when they went to bed.    
Of course,  it's almost certain he would have prepared the gun before if he had planned to murder that night, that is obvious.

It was a risk he was prepared to take. For well over £436,000p.

CAL's book said he would have avoided the outside dog.

The window was already prepared. Either loosened by the found hacksaw days beforehand. Or opened at the last supper.

The telephone engineer said the bedroom phone was in the kitchen just before the massacre. If it wasn't there on the night, all Bamber had to do was take the kitchen phone off the hook. Which disabled all phones.

He was prepared to bet that everyone would be in bed. Asleep. They were.

[buddy]

How would a phone get there period without someone putting it there intentionally?

Could have been the children, or hidden from the children.

[Adam]

OK that's a possibility but he could never have known if everyone was asleep anyway before he climbed through that window.  There were so many other risks as well, such as barking dogs , Neville for some reason changing his routine ........  I just dont believe he climbed through that window.

The window was downstairs in a big house.

If everyone was upstairs, asleep with their bedroom doors shut, and the bathroom door was also shut, I see no reason why anyone should wake. In fact if anyone was even awake as Bamber approached the window,  I doubt they would hear anything.

It was a big house and the window had been prepared by Jeremy to ensure a quiet entrance on the night.

[maggie]

The window was downstairs in a big house.

If everyone was upstairs, asleep with their bedroom doors shut, and the bathroom door was also shut, I see no reason why anyone should wake. In fact if anyone was even awake as Bamber approached the window,  I doubt they would hear anything.

It was a big house and the window had been prepared by Jeremy to ensure a quiet entrance on the night.

Your post is just your assumptions and opinions.
I know it was a big house!!!!!!

[scipio_usmc]

Climbing through Windows into the unknown is a huge risk, he could guess all he liked but wouldn't know everyone was asleep. The outside dog would surely have barked, that's the point of them being outside isn't it?  Moving the bedroom phone is not that easy without someone seeing him. They may have moved it back when they went to bed.    
Of course,  it's almost certain he would have prepared the gun before if he had planned to murder that night, that is obvious.

Committing murder is inherently risky. The things he did were to minimize the risks.  1) He planned to kill them overnight because: A) it would be the easiest time to control them because they most likely would be asleep; B) it would be unlikely anyone else would be there/would drop by during the commission; C) the least likely time anyone would see him travel to and from.  He did several things beyond just planning in anticipation of committing the murders.  In legal parlance this is known as acts in furtherance of his plans.  1) He took June's bike to his house to use.  He told Julie he planned to use a bike to further minimize the chances of anyone seeing or hearing him go to and from.  Whether he followed through or not with that plan only he knows. 2) He removed the scope to make it easier to target them the scope would have been in his way and made it more difficult to fire accurately at them at close range. 3) He removed the phone from the bedroom so that even if his parents did hear him enter they would not be able to call the police before he was able to kill them.  He did this either that weekend or Monday shortly before the cordless phone was picked up by Pike. 

Placing it in the magazine rack tends to suggest someone was coming after he replaced it with the bedroom phone and he had to rush before someone entered and would ask him anything.  He likely knew that people rarely looked at the magazines and that it would be highly unlikely anyone would find it before he killed them.  He wasn't sure what day he was going to kill them. He just knew it was going to be overnight while Sheila and the boys were there. He either chickened out Monday night or he still wasn't mentally prepared and Tuesday after fighting with his father and being pissed off at work generally got him to the point where he was able to carry it out.







 

[Steve_uk]

Committing murder is inherently risky. The things he did were to minimize the risks.  1) He planned to kill them overnight because: A) it would be the easiest time to control them because they most likely would be asleep; B) it would be unlikely anyone else would be there/would drop by during the commission; C) the least likely time anyone would see him travel to and from.  He did several things beyond just planning in anticipation of committing the murders.  In legal parlance this is known as acts in furtherance of his plans.  1) He took June's bike to his house to use.  He told Julie he planned to use a bike to further minimize the chances of anyone seeing or hearing him go to and from.  Whether he followed through or not with that plan only he knows. 2) He removed the scope to make it easier to target them the scope would have been in his way and made it more difficult to fire accurately at them at close range. 3) He removed the phone from the bedroom so that even if his parents did hear him enter they would not be able to call the police before he was able to kill them.  He did this either that weekend or Monday shortly before the cordless phone was picked up by Pike. 

Placing it in the magazine rack tends to suggest someone was coming after he replaced it with the bedroom phone and he had to rush before someone entered and would ask him anything.  He likely knew that people rarely looked at the magazines and that it would be highly unlikely anyone would find it before he killed them.  He wasn't sure what day he was going to kill them. He just knew it was going to be overnight while Sheila and the boys were there. He either chickened out Monday night or he still wasn't mentally prepared and Tuesday after fighting with his father and being pissed off at work generally got him to the point where he was able to carry it out.







 

Strange that Nevill did not feel the need of the telephone lifeline in the bedroom after all the misgivings expressed to Farm Secretary Barbara Wilson. Strange that Jeremy telephoned Julie before the murders to steel himself,strange that he mentioned a bicycle as a means of transport when it was really superfluous to the event,strange that nobody saw him in the locality and strange that he would hide a blood-stained silencer and telephone where there was a good probability that they would be found..

[Jan]

Strange that Nevill did not feel the need of the telephone lifeline in the bedroom after all the misgivings expressed to Farm Secretary Barbara Wilson. Strange that Jeremy telephoned Julie before the murders to steel himself,strange that he mentioned a bicycle as a means of transport when it was really superfluous to the event,strange that nobody saw him in the locality and strange that he would hide a blood-stained silencer and telephone where there was a good probability that they would be found..

I don't think Jeremy phoned Julie before the murders - he may have called her before the police because he was a bit of a wimp and could not decide what to do.

This was supposed to be the most clever planned murder - so to me the most strange thing is that he would tell Julie. I just have this nagging feeling that the police actually contacted her to try and get information. And I know there is no evidence - but something does not add up.

[scipio_usmc]

Strange that Nevill did not feel the need of the telephone lifeline in the bedroom after all the misgivings expressed to Farm Secretary Barbara Wilson. Strange that Jeremy telephoned Julie before the murders to steel himself,strange that he mentioned a bicycle as a means of transport when it was really superfluous to the event,strange that nobody saw him in the locality and strange that he would hide a blood-stained silencer and telephone where there was a good probability that they would be found..

Because Nevill was generally untrusting of Jeremy and said not to turn hims back he should have checked each night to make sure the phone was by his bedside in case Jeremy snuck in to kill him?

Jeremy phoned Julie often at night.  He was pissed off and told her so and told her it was the night which confirms he told her in the past about his plans.  He called her hours later to tell her he was done before he even called police.  That is what should make one wonder. He should not have called her at all but couldn't contain his excitement he needed to share and he wanted her to say he was upset from receiving a call from Nevill that he never received. Depending upon what he actually told her this is where she could have committed obstruction.  She says he told her he received a call but one has to still wonder whether he said that or told her to say he told her he received a call.

He told Julie about his plan for months and thus obviously trusted her.  He thus told her several details including his plan to use a bike because it would be more silent and that way no one could notice his car missing.  This was a plan integral to the murders not some superfluous thing it was part of his planning.

Why is it strange that no one saw him leave and return home in the middle of the night while they were asleep? Who was out and about to see him?

Why is it strange that for 2-3 days no one looked through the magazine rack before the murders?  When you are done with magazines you stick them in the rack and they sit there till it gets too full to fit anymore then you clean it out and fill it up again.

Throwing the moderator away would be extremely suspicious.  Putting it away and lying saying it was not attached the weapon when he left it out was sufficient to keep police from looking for it.

It amazing you recognize Jeremy is guilty, your posts always seem so backwards which makes it all the more apparent why the propaganda from Bain fools you so easily.

[Jan]

Because Nevill was generally untrusting of Jeremy and said not to turn hims back he should have checked each night to make sure the phone was by his bedside in case Jeremy snuck in to kill him?

Jeremy phoned Julie often at night.  He was pissed off and told her so and told her it was the night which confirms he told her in the past about his plans.  He called her hours later to tell her he was done before he even called police.  That is what should make one wonder. He should not have called her at all but couldn't contain his excitement he needed to share and he wanted her to say he was upset from receiving a call from Nevill that he never received. Depending upon what he actually told her this is where she could have committed obstruction.  She says he told her he received a call but one has to still wonder whether he said that or told her to say he told her he received a call.

He told Julie about his plan for months and thus obviously trusted her.  He thus told her several details including his plan to use a bike because it would be more silent and that way no one could notice his car missing.  This was a plan integral to the murders not some superfluous thing it was part of his planning.

Why is it strange that no one saw him leave and return home in the middle of the night while they were asleep? Who was out and about to see him?

Why is it strange that for 2-3 days no one looked through the magazine rack before the murders?  When you are done with magazines you stick them in the rack and they sit there till it gets too full to fit anymore then you clean it out and fill it up again.

Throwing the moderator away would be extremely suspicious.  Putting it away and lying saying it was not attached the weapon when he left it out was sufficient to keep police from looking for it.

It amazing you recognize Jeremy is guilty, your posts always seem so backwards which makes it all the more apparent why the propaganda from Bain fools you so easily.

that is not all exactly true because Julie said in her news of the world interview he never admitted his guilt . So your post does not give the full picture.

[Caroline]

I don't think Jeremy phoned Julie before the murders - he may have called her before the police because he was a bit of a wimp and could not decide what to do.

This was supposed to be the most clever planned murder - so to me the most strange thing is that he would tell Julie. I just have this nagging feeling that the police actually contacted her to try and get information. And I know there is no evidence - but something does not add up.

I think Steve means the 10:00pm(ish) call?