Author Topic: And so, to the truth about what Cook wrote on the exhibit label of silencer...  (Read 16370 times)

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Offline notsure

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I dont buy that they put the rifle by the window after the photos were taken. Thats far too convenient and why put it there Thats dodgy.

No way i believe thats a lie, i just cant prove it.? 

Offline Adam

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I dont buy that they put the rifle by the window after the photos were taken. Thats far too convenient and why put it there Thats dodgy.

No way i believe thats a lie, i just cant prove it.?

Sounds plausible to me.

Take pictures.

Move rifle as the bodies need to be taken away.

Simple.

'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Bamber is lucky there is a photo of a rifle by the window. There was no point in the picture being taken.

He immediately jumped on it. Although I am not sure what he is claiming.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 07:10:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Is Bamber saying the police shot Sheila, twice. Because there is a picture of the rifle by the window ?

Why would they shoot Sheila if she was not armed ?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline notsure

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The firearms team should have bagged it and removed it.

Offline lookout

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Is Bamber saying the police shot Sheila, twice. Because there is a picture of the rifle by the window ?

Why would they shoot Sheila if she was not armed ?






Two rifles don't forget.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Not everybody holds a rifle the same way. In the example you have posted I note the following detail is deliberately withheld, and the rifle in these pictures has a telescopic site fitted to the rifle giving it added weight, which caused the woman in these photographs to adopt the grip she adopted. You can't make comparisons like this without knowing whether or not the woman in the pictures is a professional shooter, or one who has lots of experience firing this type of gunIn addition, there is no 17 baffled Parker Hale silencer fitted to the end of the rifle barrel, which would increase the weight of the weapon, and its balance.  With weight of the silencer displaced on the end of the guns barrel, you cannot say with certainty, that this woman would have still held the rifle in the posed and adopted manner. Similarly, I note you didn't post any pictures of the same woman trying to shoot herself in the neck or under the point of the chin, and more importantly from my position, you never posted any pictures of this woman struggling to retain possession of this rifle, whilst somebody a lot taller and stronger than her, was try to wrench it from her - the grip at each of these 3 different stages would not be the same in each instance. We know that Sheila was involved in a struggle with one or more of the four victims she shot and killed, since there are supporting contact marks of sorts on her right forearm, which were almost certainly caused at the time Sheila was struggling or grappling with one or more of the two adult victims, at different times. The presence of the bloodied hand print on the front lower part of her nightdress was imprinted there in fresh blood. Now, I pose the following question for all the numpties in the guilty group to ponder upon, " WHOSE BLOOD WAS THIS BLOODIED HAND MARK ON THE FRONT LOWER PART OF SHEILA'S NIGHTDRESS MADE IN"?, and " AND WHOSE BLOODIED HABD MADE THAT MARK /IMPRESSION"?

You see if it was one of the other 4 victims blood, and it got there on Sheila's hand, coupled with the latest bruise blood marks from the rifles trigger case, together with all the other contact marks which are there for all to see on her right forearm, then of course that would be a compelling argument for the jury to come to the inevitable conclusion that there was contact between a victim or two, or three, or four, and evidence by a reliance upon the bruising and marked impressions upon the top part of her right hand, that proves that Sheila had made a determined effort to retain possession of that rifle at one time or another, rather than repel the rifle had it been pointed in her direction...

The games up for Essex police...

Anyone wanting to shoot the gun at someone holds it in general in the same manner.   There is no way to activate the trigger otherwise.  You seem to want to pretend her fingers were tentacles so you could pretend her hand was in a position that would otherwise be impossible to fire the weapon.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline scipio_usmc

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Two rifles don't forget.

There was only 1 rifle at the scene.  The other weapons were shotguns and a pellet rifle.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline lookout

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There was only 1 rifle at the scene.  The other weapons were shotguns and a pellet rifle.






There was the one with a broken stock which wasn't the one found by Sheila ?

Offline Caroline

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BINGO!!!, BINGO!!!, BINGO!!!, we have lift off...


HOUSE! Damn - too late!! >:( >:( ;D ;D ;D
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline scipio_usmc

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There was the one with a broken stock which wasn't the one found by Sheila ?

Think about this logically.

If there was a gun on Sheila that was unbroken, and a broken stock but the weapon it was broken from missing what would that tell you?  It would tell you someone left the scene with the rifle the stock broke from and would seriously undermine the notion Sheila killed everyone and committed suicide.

The cops were stupid but not that stupid.

The gun found on Sheila was the one with the broken stock, it was the only 22LR rifle at the scene and it  fired all 25 rounds used to kill the victims.  That is why the police were willing to believe Sheila killed everyone including herself.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline lookout

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Think about this logically.

If there was a gun on Sheila that was unbroken, and a broken stock but the weapon it was broken from missing what would that tell you?  It would tell you someone left the scene with the rifle the stock broke from and would seriously undermine the notion Sheila killed everyone and committed suicide.

The cops were stupid but not that stupid.

The gun found on Sheila was the one with the broken stock, it was the only 22LR rifle at the scene and it  fired all 25 rounds used to kill the victims.  That is why the police were willing to believe Sheila killed everyone including herself.






Strange how the rifle on Sheila doesn't show that there's a chunk out of it ?

Offline scipio_usmc

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Strange how the rifle on Sheila doesn't show that there's a chunk out of it ?

If you look closely you can see but you have to know what to look for the quality of the photos is low:

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline lookout

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That looks like a cobweb not a cob out of the rifle. I've got a powerful magnifying glass here and it doesn't look as though anything's missing.
What was the missing piece doing downstairs in the kitchen anyway ? And how could you damage that part of the rifle where it's strengthened by the steel ? I'd say it was further down where you either can't see,or it's not's the same rifle.

Offline mike tesko

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...

(1) - https://www.lccsa.org.uk/gun-experts-raise-doubts-over-jeremy-bamber-murder-verdict/

Gun experts raise doubts over Jeremy Bamber murder verdict

New review of ballistics evidence 'shakes safety of convictions' in 1986 Essex killings

Some of the world's most eminent ballistics experts have uncovered "the first evidence directly pointing to the innocence of Jeremy Bamber", convicted of a notorious multiple murder 27 years ago.

Bamber was found guilty in October 1986 of shooting his adoptive parents, June and Nevill, his sister Sheila Caffell and her six-year-old twins, Daniel and Nicholas, at their Essex farmhouse. He has consistently maintained his innocence, although his last attempt to win freedom was rejected by the Criminal Cases Review Commission 12 months ago. However, a new legal team has submitted evidence to the commission, the authority that investigates miscarriages of justice, claiming to have unearthed evidence that "shakes the safety of Bamber's convictions to their core".

Detailed reports, compiled by British and US medical and ballistics analysts, corroborate the initial police view that Bamber's schizophrenic sister Sheila Caffell committed the White House Farm murders in 1985. During the immediate aftermath of the killings on 7 August, detectives and the pathologist thought Caffell, 28, had murdered her parents and sons before turning the gun on herself.

Yet the theory was cast into doubt when three days after the shootings a cousin of Bamber found a silencer in a cupboard at the farm, apparently with Caffell's blood on it. Central to the prosecution case in the Chelmsford crown court trial was evidence that Caffell's blood was on the silencer; if so, she could not have shot herself then placed it in a cupboard downstairs. Jurors heard how the silencer was responsible for scratch marks on a kitchen shelf, allegedly made in a struggle between Bamber and his 61-year-old adoptive father.

The trial was unusual in that the jury were told the killings could have been carried out only by Caffell or Bamber. The issue of the silencer was vital in persuading the jury, with the judge instructing them the silencer "could, on its own, lead them to believe that Bamber was guilty".

Now the conclusions of a peer-reviewed pathology assessment of the evidence relating to Caffell's death, obtained by the Observer, appear to demolish the case against Bamber. They suggest that a silencer ? so pivotal to Bamber's conviction ? was never used. One report by David Fowler, chief medical examiner of the US state of Maryland, who has reviewed the files of more than 3,000 shooting homicides, states: "In my professional opinion, the [burn marks] complex just described of the lower entrance and two abrasions is consistent with the rifle not having a silencer."

Fowler believes no silencer was involved. His conclusion is supported by Ljubisa Dragovic, chief medical examiner of Oakland county in Michigan, and Marcella Fierro, former chief medical examiner of Virginia.

Leeds-based Simon McKay, Bamber's new solicitor advocate, said: "The evidence of three senior and respected pathologists that the wounds to Sheila Caffell are consistent with the rifle having been fired without the silencer fitted shakes the safety of Jeremy Bamber's convictions to their core."

McKay added: "The fresh expert evidence aligns itself with what police officers found at the scene on the morning of the killings and the combined views of those who assessed the position then: namely, and tragically, [that] Sheila Caffell murdered her family, then took her own life."

Evidence that the fatal wounds had been fired by a rifle without a silencer are corroborated by further fresh analysis of burn marks on Nevill Bamber's back. The findings are supported by firearms experts working for Dr John Manlove, an Oxfordshire-based forensic scientist.

Manlove states: "From its size and shape, this mark could possibly have been caused by the hot muzzle of a firearm, without a sound moderator." He says that further testing is required with the murder weapon, an Ansch?tz 525 rifle, to underpin his initial assessment.

Manlove's conclusions are corroborated by gunfire tests conducted last month in Arizona. A report by Daniel Caruso, chief of burn services at the Arizona Burn Centre and executive chair of the department of surgery at the University of Arizona, states: "In my professional opinion, the three wounds sustained by Ralph [Nevill] Bamber are consistent in size, shape and diameter with a threaded end of a model 525 Ansch?tz rifle barrel heated sufficiently to cause injury."

McKay is adamant that the CCRC has no option but to refer the case.

During the trial, the jury struggled to reach a verdict, requesting to see the evidence relating to the blood on the silencer, before returning with a 10-2 majority. McKay added: "A picture is emerging that exculpates Jeremy Bamber and implicates his sister." Until the finding of the silencer, he says, there was no reason to doubt the initial view of detectives that Caffell committed the murder then killed herself. The pathologist, Dr Peter Vanezis, added: "My examination did not reveal anything to contradict the suicide theory."

Although the burn marks were raised at the trial, McKay said they were dismissed as a "mystery". A senior forensics expert in 1985 raised the possibility that the rifle muzzle may have been responsible but no evidence exists that he pursued this line of inquiry. Bamber's lawyers have recently obtained a copy of a note from the Home Office database endorsing that tests were needed to ascertain how hot the silencer became after firing, but again no proof is available that this was pursued.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 09:28:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...