Author Topic: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)  (Read 41487 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44410
Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #525 on: July 19, 2015, 12:32:PM »
he thinks  you're an idiot - I concur!

Source please.

He obviously thinks you're an idiot for believing Bamber innocent for so long.

I concur.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Caroline

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 27076
Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #526 on: July 19, 2015, 12:35:PM »
Source please.

He obviously thinks you're an idiot for believing Bamber innocent for so long.

I concur.

Yeah, that's why he used some of my research!! Just proved you're an idiot - as if anyone had any doubts!  ;D ;D ;D

Oh! When you actually work out what a source is, then you'd be qualified to ask for one!!
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44410
Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #527 on: July 19, 2015, 12:41:PM »
Yeah, that's why he used some of my research!! Just proved you're an idiot - as if anyone had any doubts!  ;D ;D ;D

Oh! When you actually work out what a source is, then you'd be qualified to ask for one!!

Jan kindly informed me what a 'primary' source is. After I gave her ten (now 18) sources.

Although I was surprised BW saying on camera (twice) something is not a 'primary' source.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Caroline

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 27076
Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #528 on: July 19, 2015, 12:46:PM »
Jan kindly informed me what a 'primary' source is. After I gave her ten (now 18) sources.

Although I was surprised BW saying on camera (twice) something is not a 'primary' source.

I have never seen BW talking about Primary sources!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33781
Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #529 on: July 19, 2015, 12:50:PM »
I have never seen BW talking about Primary sources!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D



Nor I, Caroline. I have no reason to think the expression would have been part of her vocabulary. It certainly doesn't form part of Adam's knowledge.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #530 on: July 19, 2015, 12:50:PM »
Did I read somewhere that BW had passed away ?

Offline Caroline

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 27076
Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #531 on: July 19, 2015, 12:58:PM »
Did I read somewhere that BW had passed away ?

We had this question before and it was someone else so unless she died in the mean time (which I doubt) - then no.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #532 on: July 19, 2015, 01:00:PM »
We had this question before and it was someone else so unless she died in the mean time (which I doubt) - then no.






I hadn't read it on here,it was an outside source. Didn't know it had been mentioned before either.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #533 on: July 19, 2015, 01:38:PM »
 Anyone reading the Stokenchurch investigation,will see that the Met knew/know how the burns appeared on Neville's back. Jeremy has the information from this investigation stating that the burns were made by the guns barrel,minus a silencer.
The results were never disclosed to the defence.

The moral being that this side of the case couldn't have been investigated in the books or the authors would have known how the burns appeared.

Offline lebaleb

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 884
Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #534 on: July 19, 2015, 02:43:PM »
20th time -

1. Uncontaminated hands and nightdress completely free of any gunfire residue or gun oil.  In fact no contaminants of any sort indicated that Sheila never handled the rifle let alone fired it 25 times in quick succession and reloaded its magazine at least twice.

2. Uncontaminated feet.  Sheila's feet were completely clean and free of blood or any other contaminants evidencing the fact that she had been in bed when the attack took place and thereafter only walked on carpet. She could never have been downstairs in the kitchen that morning.

3. Uncut feet. Nevill Bamber was brutally attacked in the kitchen after having been shot several times in the upstairs bedroom.  During the assault in the kitchen a glass lampshade was smashed leaving glass fragments all over the floor. Had Sheila taken part in that attack the soles of her feet or the soles of her slippers would have been pock marked with glass fragments.  Sheila's feet were unmarked as were the soles of her slippers.

4. Only one fingerprint on the rifle evidencing the fact that Sheila did not wield it or fire it.  Had she shot herself twice as alleged by some her thumbprint would have been on the trigger since she would have to had pushed it.  It wasn't.

5. It is almost certain that blood and DNA belonging to Sheila was found in the sound moderator.  Group 'A' human blood matching Sheila was recovered from the sound moderator in 1985.  Later, advances in forensic science methods led to the recovery of DNA from inside the sound moderator which returned 17 markers out of 20 as a match to Sheila which was substantially better than the maximum coincidence rate of thirteen.  Sheila could not have shot herself with the sound moderator attached nor could she have returned it to the gun cupboard after shooting herself twice in the throat.

6. Sheila was in good spirits, looking forward to the future as a family again. Her doctor and her ex husband stated that she was not capable of hurting her father or her children.

7. Two gunshots to her neck.  Hardly indicative of a suicide especially when the first one would have incapacitated her. It is also noticeable that the gun and magazine were empty when found. Was that another coincidence that Sheila just happened to use the last bullet and had no others on her person?

8. No marks or injuries following a fight.  Sheila was tiny compared to the 6' 2" Nevill.  She could not have fought with him without sustaining some sort of injury or damage to her clothing.

9. Sheila had traces of cannabis in her system rendering her calm and docile, not violent or murderous.

10. Sheila had run out of her procyclidine which counteracts the effects of her medication haloperidol. Without this she would have been very shaky and uncoordinated (as described by various witnesses) and would not have had the control needed to get off 25 shots without missing one never mind trying to reload an awkward magazine in between time.

11. Sheila was unfamiliar with the rifle or any firearm for that matter and would have been unable to make 25 target shots.

12. If Sheila had shot herself in the throat and had remained conscious, there would have been blood in her mouth and throat with resultant blood spatter everywhere as she struggled to breathe. Her fingers would have touched the burning wound and ended up covered in blood as would have her face and neck.  The blood trails running from this wound would have been smudged yet it was not. There was no secondary blood staining to her face or neck when the police initially found her.  The inside of her hands and her finger tips did not have any blood staining.  Sheila therefore was not conscious after the first shot and most certainly did not fire the second one.

13. Sheila's body was found on the far side of the master bedroom away from everyone. Had she committed suicide as some allege it is more than likely that she would have done so beside her children and not remote from them.

14. Perfectly manicured nails and all intact and unbroken.  If Sheila had used the rifle and loaded it at least once she would have ended up with some nail damage.  There was none.

15: No oil on her hands from re loading.

16: The gas meter and monastery stories are made up.

17: Sheila had never attacked anyone before.

18: No one can explain how Sheila committed the massacre, matching the crime scene.

19: According to Jeremy she had stayed alive right up until the raid team entered WHF. This is not credible as she was so determined to kill everyone in a murder/suicide rage.

20: There is no evidence of the fostering conversation which may have upset her. She was apparently passive during this alleged conversation anyway.

1. Since the rifle was photographed laying on the nightdress with Sheila's hand upon it, there must have been residue present.

2. She may have been wearing the socks found near her body. Partly digested food suggests she was in the kitchen at some point during the night.

3. We have no knowledge of the position or size of glass fragments which may well have been large and in a   small area. We don't know at what point the lampshade was broken.

4. Anyone setting the scene would know the first thing to do would be to put fingerprints on the gun.

5. There are ways Sheila's blood could be in the silencer, presuming the test was correct.

6. In such great spirits that she sat in the car with CC and didn't utter a word the whole journey. So happy that she didn't respond to PB's conversation on the phone and didn't even say 'Goodnight'.

7. After the first shot she could have walked about for some time, I wouldn't call that incapacitated.

8. There was no fight just a mortally wounded man being bludgeoned.

9. Traces of cannabis do not act as a tranquilizer.

10. The effects of the Halperidol would have been minimal after the dose had been halved and she was due for another shot.

11. 8 year old's can use these rifles. I wouldn't say her shots were on target unless she was aiming for Neville's arm, June's arm or side etc...

12. There was blood splatter, blood on her neck was smeared, bloody fingers had been wiped on her nightdress. Her blood had dripped onto the bible which was closed and then opened at the same page.

13. Why is that more likely when she was having a psychotic episode.

14. I play guitar and have long nails. I can perform daily functions without damaging them. Painted nails are even stronger.

15. Someone showered, it could have been Sheila. There should have been some oil from the hand photographed on the gun.

16. More likely JM's story is made up.

17. Maybe, maybe not, but Freddie was scared. My cousin had never attacked anyone, if he had then maybe people would have realised he was dangerous before he strangled his wife.

18. Do you read other people's posts?

19. Jeremy is in no better position to know that than the police. It's speculation.

20. June had already spoken to other people about fostering. There is usually a catatonic phase before the manic one.

Offline susan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 16196
Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #535 on: July 19, 2015, 03:28:PM »
Why should you feel let down?  ???

Caroline maybe after all he told me I was expecting more and I believed him and if I want to feel let down that is my emotion.

Offline Caroline

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 27076
Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #536 on: July 19, 2015, 04:56:PM »
Caroline maybe after all he told me I was expecting more and I believed him and if I want to feel let down that is my emotion.

He told a lot of people stuff but nothing that he hasn't written in the book - if people were expecting more, that's not really down to him. I knew about the letter as did a few others - I'm open minded about it but I didn't expect it to provide a definitive result. He doesn't owe any of us anything and vice versa.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Jan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10318
Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #537 on: July 19, 2015, 05:14:PM »
1. Since the rifle was photographed laying on the nightdress with Sheila's hand upon it, there must have been residue present.

2. She may have been wearing the socks found near her body. Partly digested food suggests she was in the kitchen at some point during the night.

3. We have no knowledge of the position or size of glass fragments which may well have been large and in a   small area. We don't know at what point the lampshade was broken.

4. Anyone setting the scene would know the first thing to do would be to put fingerprints on the gun.

5. There are ways Sheila's blood could be in the silencer, presuming the test was correct.

6. In such great spirits that she sat in the car with CC and didn't utter a word the whole journey. So happy that she didn't respond to PB's conversation on the phone and didn't even say 'Goodnight'.

7. After the first shot she could have walked about for some time, I wouldn't call that incapacitated.

8. There was no fight just a mortally wounded man being bludgeoned.

9. Traces of cannabis do not act as a tranquilizer.

10. The effects of the Halperidol would have been minimal after the dose had been halved and she was due for another shot.

11. 8 year old's can use these rifles. I wouldn't say her shots were on target unless she was aiming for Neville's arm, June's arm or side etc...

12. There was blood splatter, blood on her neck was smeared, bloody fingers had been wiped on her nightdress. Her blood had dripped onto the bible which was closed and then opened at the same page.

13. Why is that more likely when she was having a psychotic episode.

14. I play guitar and have long nails. I can perform daily functions without damaging them. Painted nails are even stronger.

15. Someone showered, it could have been Sheila. There should have been some oil from the hand photographed on the gun.

16. More likely JM's story is made up.

17. Maybe, maybe not, but Freddie was scared. My cousin had never attacked anyone, if he had then maybe people would have realised he was dangerous before he strangled his wife.

18. Do you read other people's posts?

19. Jeremy is in no better position to know that than the police. It's speculation.

20. June had already spoken to other people about fostering. There is usually a catatonic phase before the manic one.

Excellent post - you have more patience than I have.

perhaps Adam would like to give a reply - as people do in a proper discussion. Lets see.

Offline susan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 16196
Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #538 on: July 19, 2015, 05:20:PM »
He told a lot of people stuff but nothing that he hasn't written in the book - if people were expecting more, that's not really down to him. I knew about the letter as did a few others - I'm open minded about it but I didn't expect it to provide a definitive result. He doesn't owe any of us anything and vice versa.

Caroline

I can assure you he told me lots of things that are not in the book and NGB will verify this if of course he reads the book.  I too knew about the letter but I still cannot understand why Jeremy would remove Sheila's clothes from the scene perhaps you can explain this to me.

Offline Jan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10318
Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #539 on: July 19, 2015, 05:43:PM »
Caroline

I can assure you he told me lots of things that are not in the book and NGB will verify this if of course he reads the book.  I too knew about the letter but I still cannot understand why Jeremy would remove Sheila's clothes from the scene perhaps you can explain this to me.

Why would he have anything that he would keep from the book - after waiting so long to publish it?