Author Topic: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)  (Read 41664 times)

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Offline Jan

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #495 on: July 19, 2015, 10:45:AM »
Jan

both the latest books will be the author's scenario just like we have them on the forum we will never see any concrete evidence  of Jeremy's guilt other than what was presented at trial the Establishment struggled then so nothing new is going to come to light most of what I have read in Deviant I have read before on the forum  we are all left to our own views.  I apologise to Carol Ann I should not judge her book before reading it and I am looking forward to publication.

No I agree and I will try and read both books - but I do dislike printing things in a factual way when the crime is bad enough in itself without adding assumptions  that are not really relevant. Is she trying to make it sound more sinister ?

Offline Jan

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #496 on: July 19, 2015, 10:51:AM »
Well she does add this to the end The experts consulted don’t agree on every point. Indeed, there are puzzles and inconsistencies throughout the case. It is notable, for example, that no one can satisfactorily explain burn marks found on Nevill’s back. It demonstrates there are often questions that cannot be answered – except by the killer.

One thing she has done though,  she has spoken with Bamber and a lot of the detectives and Colin Caffel and prob relatives and numerous people involved, that's more than me you or anyone on here has done?  So at least give her credit for this.  She has formed her own opinion from this and prob could have sold more books by saying he was not guilty?  Just for the record did Lomax go to the trouble of interviewing all these people?

I will read the book - basically I would like to see how she has come to her conclusion because it does seem on most factual evidence ( meaning Sheila could not have done it ) there are always two "experts" that will disagree :)

Offline lookout

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #497 on: July 19, 2015, 10:53:AM »
I wonder how she concludes that Sheila couldn't have done it ?

Offline Adam

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #498 on: July 19, 2015, 10:55:AM »
20th time -

1. Uncontaminated hands and nightdress completely free of any gunfire residue or gun oil.  In fact no contaminants of any sort indicated that Sheila never handled the rifle let alone fired it 25 times in quick succession and reloaded its magazine at least twice.

2. Uncontaminated feet.  Sheila's feet were completely clean and free of blood or any other contaminants evidencing the fact that she had been in bed when the attack took place and thereafter only walked on carpet. She could never have been downstairs in the kitchen that morning.

3. Uncut feet. Nevill Bamber was brutally attacked in the kitchen after having been shot several times in the upstairs bedroom.  During the assault in the kitchen a glass lampshade was smashed leaving glass fragments all over the floor. Had Sheila taken part in that attack the soles of her feet or the soles of her slippers would have been pock marked with glass fragments.  Sheila's feet were unmarked as were the soles of her slippers.

4. Only one fingerprint on the rifle evidencing the fact that Sheila did not wield it or fire it.  Had she shot herself twice as alleged by some her thumbprint would have been on the trigger since she would have to had pushed it.  It wasn't.

5. It is almost certain that blood and DNA belonging to Sheila was found in the sound moderator.  Group 'A' human blood matching Sheila was recovered from the sound moderator in 1985.  Later, advances in forensic science methods led to the recovery of DNA from inside the sound moderator which returned 17 markers out of 20 as a match to Sheila which was substantially better than the maximum coincidence rate of thirteen.  Sheila could not have shot herself with the sound moderator attached nor could she have returned it to the gun cupboard after shooting herself twice in the throat.

6. Sheila was in good spirits, looking forward to the future as a family again. Her doctor and her ex husband stated that she was not capable of hurting her father or her children.

7. Two gunshots to her neck.  Hardly indicative of a suicide especially when the first one would have incapacitated her. It is also noticeable that the gun and magazine were empty when found. Was that another coincidence that Sheila just happened to use the last bullet and had no others on her person?

8. No marks or injuries following a fight.  Sheila was tiny compared to the 6' 2" Nevill.  She could not have fought with him without sustaining some sort of injury or damage to her clothing.

9. Sheila had traces of cannabis in her system rendering her calm and docile, not violent or murderous.

10. Sheila had run out of her procyclidine which counteracts the effects of her medication haloperidol. Without this she would have been very shaky and uncoordinated (as described by various witnesses) and would not have had the control needed to get off 25 shots without missing one never mind trying to reload an awkward magazine in between time.

11. Sheila was unfamiliar with the rifle or any firearm for that matter and would have been unable to make 25 target shots.

12. If Sheila had shot herself in the throat and had remained conscious, there would have been blood in her mouth and throat with resultant blood spatter everywhere as she struggled to breathe. Her fingers would have touched the burning wound and ended up covered in blood as would have her face and neck.  The blood trails running from this wound would have been smudged yet it was not. There was no secondary blood staining to her face or neck when the police initially found her.  The inside of her hands and her finger tips did not have any blood staining.  Sheila therefore was not conscious after the first shot and most certainly did not fire the second one.

13. Sheila's body was found on the far side of the master bedroom away from everyone. Had she committed suicide as some allege it is more than likely that she would have done so beside her children and not remote from them.

14. Perfectly manicured nails and all intact and unbroken.  If Sheila had used the rifle and loaded it at least once she would have ended up with some nail damage.  There was none.

15: No oil on her hands from re loading.

16: The gas meter and monastery stories are made up.

17: Sheila had never attacked anyone before.

18: No one can explain how Sheila committed the massacre, matching the crime scene.

19: According to Jeremy she had stayed alive right up until the raid team entered WHF. This is not credible as she was so determined to kill everyone in a murder/suicide rage.

20: There is no evidence of the fostering conversation which may have upset her. She was apparently passive during this alleged conversation anyway. 
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 11:04:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline maggie

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #499 on: July 19, 2015, 11:01:AM »
20th time -

1. Uncontaminated hands and nightdress completely free of any gunfire residue or gun oil.  In fact no contaminants of any sort indicated that Sheila never handled the rifle let alone fired it 25 times in quick succession and reloaded its magazine at least twice.

2. Uncontaminated feet.  Sheila's feet were completely clean and free of blood or any other contaminants evidencing the fact that she had been in bed when the attack took place and thereafter only walked on carpet. She could never have been downstairs in the kitchen that morning.

3. Uncut feet. Nevill Bamber was brutally attacked in the kitchen after having been shot several times in the upstairs bedroom.  During the assault in the kitchen a glass lampshade was smashed leaving glass fragments all over the floor. Had Sheila taken part in that attack the soles of her feet or the soles of her slippers would have been pock marked with glass fragments.  Sheila's feet were unmarked as were the soles of her slippers.

4. Only one fingerprint on the rifle evidencing the fact that Sheila did not wield it or fire it.  Had she shot herself twice as alleged by some her thumbprint would have been on the trigger since she would have to had pushed it.  It wasn't.

5. It is almost certain that blood and DNA belonging to Sheila was found in the sound moderator.  Group 'A' human blood matching Sheila was recovered from the sound moderator in 1985.  Later, advances in forensic science methods led to the recovery of DNA from inside the sound moderator which returned 17 markers out of 20 as a match to Sheila which was substantially better than the maximum coincidence rate of thirteen.  Sheila could not have shot herself with the sound moderator attached nor could she have returned it to the gun cupboard after shooting herself twice in the throat.

6. Sheila was in good spirits, looking forward to the future as a family again. Her doctor and her ex husband stated that she was not capable of hurting her father or her children.

7. Two gunshots to her neck.  Hardly indicative of a suicide especially when the first one would have incapacitated her. It is also noticeable that the gun and magazine were empty when found. Was that another coincidence that Sheila just happened to use the last bullet and had no others on her person?

8. No marks or injuries following a fight.  Sheila was tiny compared to the 6' 2" Nevill.  She could not have fought with him without sustaining some sort of injury or damage to her clothing.

9. Sheila had traces of cannabis in her system rendering her calm and docile, not violent or murderous.

10. Sheila had run out of her procyclidine which counteracts the effects of her medication haloperidol. Without this she would have been very shaky and uncoordinated (as described by various witnesses) and would not have had the control needed to get off 25 shots without missing one never mind trying to reload an awkward magazine in between time.

11. Sheila was unfamiliar with the rifle or any firearm for that matter and would have been unable to make 25 target shots.

12. If Sheila had shot herself in the throat and had remained conscious, there would have been blood in her mouth and throat with resultant blood spatter everywhere as she struggled to breathe. Her fingers would have touched the burning wound and ended up covered in blood as would have her face and neck.  The blood trails running from this wound would have been smudged yet it was not. There was no secondary blood staining to her face or neck when the police initially found her.  The inside of her hands and her finger tips did not have any blood staining.  Sheila therefore was not conscious after the first shot and most certainly did not fire the second one.

13. Sheila's body was found on the far side of the master bedroom away from everyone. Had she committed suicide as some allege it is more than likely that she would have done so beside her children and not remote from them.

14. Perfectly manicured nails and all intact and unbroken.  If Sheila had used the rifle and loaded it at least once she would have ended up with some nail damage.  There was none.

15: No oil on her hands from re loading.

16: The gas meter and monastery stories are made up.

17: Sheila had never attacked anyone.

18: No one can explain how Sheila committed the massacre, matching the crime scene.
Think maybe you should write a book, Adam.

Offline Adam

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #500 on: July 19, 2015, 11:06:AM »
Think maybe you should write a book, Adam.

It's a now nice even 20 reasons.

« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 11:07:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #501 on: July 19, 2015, 11:14:AM »
I laughed at the 'Slaughter at the farm' video when Bews was interviewed.

Jeremy was insinuating, without much encouragement how Sheila could have killed everyone or was holding everyone hostage. 'Mmm, that changed things a bit' he said.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 11:15:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline maggie

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #502 on: July 19, 2015, 11:17:AM »
It's a now nice even 20 reasons.
There you are then, get scribbling  ;)

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #503 on: July 19, 2015, 11:18:AM »
I wonder how she concludes that Sheila couldn't have done it ?
maybe she didn't get a letter?

Offline Caroline

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #504 on: July 19, 2015, 11:38:AM »
Hi Justice

I have only read the book written by Colin as far as Deviant is concerned I was led to believe much more was going to come out of the book and greatly disappointed when I read it nothing different than what I have read on the forum and I feel let down :'(  In my head I have two books written only one was published.

Why should you feel let down?  ???
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Jan

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #505 on: July 19, 2015, 11:40:AM »
It's a now nice even 20 reasons.

who are you trying to convince ? yourself ?


Offline Jan

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #506 on: July 19, 2015, 11:43:AM »
Why should you feel let down?  ???

I think because we are looking for something new - either way-  not just the information we have already seen re-written and then somebody ( a writer) forming an opinion.

But to be honest - I don't think that is going to happen .


Offline Adam

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #507 on: July 19, 2015, 11:53:AM »
Jeremy's website says there is 'none' forensic evidence against him.

The forensic evidence showing it was not Sheila, automatically makes him guilty. As he knew something was wrong.

There is also other forensic evidence, of which I have created a thread.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 11:54:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #508 on: July 19, 2015, 11:56:AM »
It depends who gets pipped at the post when new information does materialise. Maybe then we'll get some semblance of truth.
So many conflicting views and posts on different sites. Only yesterday I read a post on another site/forum and the poster spoke of the police hearing a shot from within WHF at appx 07.00 before the raid team entered at 07.30 or thereabouts.
This is the first time I'd read about it and the poster in question has written some brilliant and very knowledgeable posts.
Anyone else heard this version ? Seemingly,it was when the loud-hailer was in use.

Offline Jan

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #509 on: July 19, 2015, 12:00:PM »
Jeremy's website says there is 'none' forensic evidence against him.

The forensic evidence showing it was not Sheila, automatically makes him guilty. As he knew something was wrong.

There is also other forensic evidence, of which I have created a thread.

It is not forensic evidence to suggest she was not capable of using the gun - it is an opinion that can be disputed as if the "fact" that her feet were clean or that she would break a nail. How do you know she was not wearing the black canvas shoes that were taken away ? I am not saying she was - just pointing out possibilities.