Author Topic: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)  (Read 41490 times)

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Offline Stephanie

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #330 on: July 17, 2015, 11:45:PM »
Steph that is possible the shower head was hanging down guess we will never know exactly what happened.

Some people don't bother replacing their shower heads. Some people just leave them dangling down, maybe after they've rinsed themselves down or washed their hair?

It's possible it was moved to this position for effect or maybe it's holder had broken?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2015, 11:56:PM by stephanie »
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Offline Stephanie

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #331 on: July 17, 2015, 11:47:PM »
I very much doubt Jeremy would tell anyone what 'actually' happened but that doesn't mean he didn't relay this scenario to the informant and there may be 'some' elements of truth - however small.

Agree with this also... Though why would he talk to anyone about it? Was the informant 'a lover?'
« Last Edit: July 17, 2015, 11:51:PM by stephanie »
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Offline Stephanie

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #332 on: July 18, 2015, 12:06:AM »
Does anyone know if JB does drugs?

I know drugs are rife in most of our prisons and are often taken to alleviate boredom, as one example..

Just wondered if he did ever suggest SC was involved, could he have been under the influence of a mind altering substance?
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Offline maggie

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #333 on: July 18, 2015, 12:18:AM »
Does anyone know if JB does drugs?

I know drugs are rife in most of our prisons and are often taken to alleviate boredom, as one example..

Just wondered if he did ever suggest SC was involved, could he have been under the influence of a mind altering substance?
I would make a guess that he does. He did before prison so no reason to stop imo. He's always claimed Sheila did it and what he told this prisoner reinforces that the only difference being in this scenario he was present and he shot Sheila because she begged him. 

Offline Stephanie

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #334 on: July 18, 2015, 12:27:AM »
I would make a guess that he does. He did before prison so no reason to stop imo. He's always claimed Sheila did it and what he told this prisoner reinforces that the only difference being in this scenario he was present and he shot Sheila because she begged him.

So, in that case, he could have been under the influence of a mind altering substance and blabbed to someone something? I guess that's a possibility, though I still sense unlikely.

I can't see it. Why would she beg him to kill her? Surely if she had murdered the family it would be better for him to keep her alive. She would have then gone to prison and he would keep his inheritance.
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Offline maggie

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #335 on: July 18, 2015, 12:44:AM »
So, in that case, he could have been under the influence of a mind altering substance and blabbed to someone something? I guess that's a possibility, though I still sense unlikely.

I can't see it. Why would she beg him to kill her? Surely if she had murdered the family it would be better for him to keep her alive. She would have then gone to prison and he would keep his inheritance.
I'm not saying I believe that's what happened but it's possible parts of it are true?  If Sheila killed the way he claimed, I could only imagine she was in a low level psychotic state he describes her behaviour as such. I don't believe Sheila would kill any of them unless her thoughts were distorted by psychosis which may not have been particularly obvious. 
I agree there are various arguments against and I'm not convinced myself but can see there may be some truth in it. :-\
I simply struggle to believe if  he committed the murders he did it on his own.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 12:53:AM by maggie »

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #336 on: July 18, 2015, 01:45:AM »
I simply struggle to believe if  he committed the murders he did it on his own.

A lot of people seem to have this hangup and in turn it seems to make such people look for something that isn't there.

I follow evidence so I only believe Jeremy had help if there is credible evidence he had help.  All the evidence though points to a single killer. The sole evidence of Jeremy getting help was his account to Julie that he hired a MM which ended up falling apart under scrutiny. There is nothing to suggest Brett to anyone else was involved in any way. 

There is no evidence Sheila was involved- that is what helped convict him yet people are apt to believe she was involved anyway because they have a hangup of Jeremy being responsible alone.  What can Jeremy say about the lack of evidence that Sheila did anything?  Publicly he alleges police hid such evidence though he has been unable to develop a shred of evidence to that effect to use in an appeal proceeding.  Allegedly in secret he claimed claimed he is the one who scrubbed the evidence but his claims make no sense.  He suggests he told Sheila to wash up and destroyed her clothing in order to help her escape liability.  He was planning to help her get away with it.  Planning to help her get away with it makes zero sense. If they were quite close it is one thing but he didn't made clear long before that he didn't want to share the inheritance with her so trying to help her escape liability and try to help make up a claim someone else did it is not credible at all.  If he did tell this to someone he told it to a convict thinking the convict would be ignorant/gullible enough to buy it.  He didn't tell that story publicly because he knows no one will buy it unless one is predisposed to the thought he could not do it alone.

A lot of people want to think there is more than meets the eye to this case but I don't see it.  I think what we see is all that there is to see.  This may seem like a let down and suck because it leaves little to discuss but that's all I think that is ever going to come out.

My idea of a good book on this case is one that provides a more detailed account of the trial testimony to provide the most complete picture available.  It would not amount to any new evidence or facts just publicly releasing tidbits that have not been publicly released prior.  There won't be anything dramatic in such testimony because the most important points were already summarized in the appeal decision etc. and many statements were released so we already have a good idea of everything significant.

I don't mean to sound like a Geico commercial but convicts lie including to other prisoners it's what they do.   

 






   
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #337 on: July 18, 2015, 06:43:AM »
Caroline you are quite right I have always thought Sheila was involved and  I think he brain washed her then double crossed her that has always been my take on it.The fact the ex con wrote this letter does not guarantee Jeremy told him this he could have come up with the story himself but if I was writing the letter or telling the story I would have left Sheila's clothes at the scene they could have been forensically tested to authenticate the fact she carried out  some or all of the shootings other than herself.
  Good point Susan, but how many on here would know back in the 80s that when firing a gun you would leave forensic evidence on your clothes? The only thing i was aware of was finger prints. Or do you mean blood deposits?

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #338 on: July 18, 2015, 06:45:AM »
How can anyone evaluate these claims when we don't know who the source is?  Most of us don't even know anything about Harrison. 

As it stands, it is a totally worthless piece of information.

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #339 on: July 18, 2015, 06:50:AM »
How can anyone evaluate these claims when we don't know who the source is?  Most of us don't even know anything about Harrison. 

As it stands, it is a totally worthless piece of information.
Hi Neil i think some posters were in close contact with him when he used to post on here? But you are right its better with a source otherwise its just hearsay.

Offline Adam

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #340 on: July 18, 2015, 07:51:AM »
I think you may be right justice.  I certainly have struggled with the idea of JB or anyone else carrying out the killings alone, have had problems with Sheila being willing to join in if she was not psychotic but now realise she may have been suffering from a low level psychosis which wouldn't be particularly apparent to people but caused enough distortion for her to be manipulated.  :-\

Alias brings up this argument.

There really is no difficulty carrying out the massacre alone.

He had the element of surprise. He was fully clothed and protected. He had a gun. He choose the perfect time for an execution, when everyone would be sleeping.

He was up against two six year old boys and two women, neither of whom was strong. Only Neville could pose a threat.

An accurate head shot into each person would at the least disable them. Giving him time to complete his task. However he had enough bullets to fire more than one bullet into each persons head, before having to do his first chamber and reload.

« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 08:34:AM by Adam »
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Offline Adam

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #341 on: July 18, 2015, 07:55:AM »
He was never going to find an accomplice to complete the massacre with him.

He didn't mix in hardcore criminal circles and even those criminals would think twice. He didn't have the money to pay anyone up front. An accomplice would be expensive, money he would rather keep for himself.

If he investigated getting an accomplice and sounded people out, there was a chance people would tell the police of this after the massacre.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 08:28:AM by Adam »
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Offline Adam

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #342 on: July 18, 2015, 08:34:AM »
The only person he may have considered as an accomplice was Julie.

He had told her of his hatred and plans. But probably realised a young lady in attendance would do more harm than good and would certainly not be as committed as him.

However the advantage of bringing her along would mean she could not go to the police, as she was involved. They could also provide alibi's for each other. Saying they were in bed when woken by Neville's call.

It seems his 'now or never' decision was quite spur of the moment, after being really 'pissed off' at work. Everyone was at WHF. Julie was in Lewisham. Jeremy was going it alone, but would keep Julie informed of developments.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 08:48:AM by Adam »
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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #343 on: July 18, 2015, 08:50:AM »
Alias brings up this argument.

There really is no difficulty carrying out the massacre alone.

He had the element of surprise. He was fully clothed and protected. He had a gun. He choose the perfect time for an execution, when everyone would be sleeping.

He was up against two six year old boys and two women, neither of whom was strong. Only Neville could pose a threat.

An accurate head shot into each person would at the least disable them. Giving him time to complete his task. However he had enough bullets to fire more than one bullet into each persons head, before having to do his first chamber and reload.

Do you think the killer underestimated the number or bullets required?

Offline maggie

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Re: The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)
« Reply #344 on: July 18, 2015, 09:04:AM »
Alias brings up this argument.

There really is no difficulty carrying out the massacre alone.

He had the element of surprise. He was fully clothed and protected. He had a gun. He choose the perfect time for an execution, when everyone would be sleeping.

He was up against two six year old boys and two women, neither of whom was strong. Only Neville could pose a threat.

An accurate head shot into each person would at the least disable them. Giving him time to complete his task. However he had enough bullets to fire more than one bullet into each persons head, before having to do his first chamber and reload.
I agree, Alias used that argument as one of her reasons to question JBs guilt, I remember her arguing from that angle long before you joined the forum and agreeing with it but others have also thought it. Susan has just posted that she has always believed this scenario.  In theory an accurate headshot would of course disable everyone but in practice it would not be easy to achieve, anyway Sheila wasn't shot in the head.. Also there is the question .... where was Sheila when her brother was rampaging around shooting everyone...... sleeping you will say and that is a possibility but there's no proof of that. 
I am not stating as FACT something unproven, am just saying it maybe ' has a ring of truth about it' ...... now where have I heard that expression before??  ;)
« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 09:14:AM by maggie »