HOLD THE FRONT PAGE HEADLINE - Bamber was definitely framed. ..

[lookout]

 I thought Smith heard the gunshot around 10pm. ? Neville would have been in the field at that time so wouldn't have heard it.

[Caroline]

I thought Smith heard the gunshot around 10pm. ? Neville would have been in the field at that time so wouldn't have heard it.

Was the field in Timbuktu?

[lookout]

Was the field in Timbuktu?

Smith would have heard it through an open window,upstairs.Neville wouldn't because of the noise of the tractor,but was sadly met with it when entering the farmhouse.

[Caroline]

Smith would have heard it through an open window,upstairs.Neville wouldn't because of the noise of the tractor,but was sadly met with it when entering the farmhouse.

Is that before or after he put on his PJ's? 

[lookout]

Is that before or after he put on his PJ's?

Before I should imagine unless he worked in his pj's.

[Caroline]

Before I should imagine unless he worked in his pj's.

So being held at gunpoint, Sheila allowed him to put his PJ's on? Not only that - being held at gunpoint he decided it would be a good idea to make himself more vulnerable and put his PJ's on?

I guess instead of going to bed (as June stated to Pam), Sheila went off to find a shotgun, had a quick blast, then had a snack while waiting for Nevill to return? Strange how Pam never heard the shotgun blast while on the phone? It didn't wake the twins up either - unless you're suggesting that after blasting the shot gun, she put it down briefly in order to settle the twins again? Guess June didn't think it was important enough to take off her - then again, she was on the phone. (Sarcasm intended).

[Jan]

So being held at gunpoint, Sheila allowed him to put his PJ's on? Not only that - being held at gunpoint he decided it would be a good idea to make himself more vulnerable and put his PJ's on?

I guess instead of going to bed (as June stated to Pam), Sheila went off to find a shotgun, had a quick blast, then had a snack while waiting for Nevill to return? Strange how Pam never heard the shotgun blast while on the phone? It didn't wake the twins up either - unless you're suggesting that after blasting the shot gun, she put it down briefly in order to settle the twins again? Guess June didn't think it was important enough to take off her - then again, she was on the phone. (Sarcasm intended).

Crikey apparently I am sounding like Alias and now you sound just like Adam. The forum is getting stranger and stranger.

[lookout]

I was beginning to think it was me,Jan-----------" age " and all that,but I know that fortunately I'm quite level-headed and have had my yearly " test " for dementia which is as good as it gets.

[mike tesko]

Jeremy was still there at 09:30.

Arguably, yes, arguably, no. Witness recollected that at about 9.30pm, she heard Jeremys car, a Vauxhall Astra GTE  exit whf and drive off along Pages Lane, albeit she did not physically see that it was Jeremy that was driving the vehicle at that time, I think almost everyone accepts that it was him leaving the farm to go home. What I find to be significant is that this witness makes no mention of hearing the sound of a shotgun blast booming off at around the time Jeremys car was leaving - if she heard his car driving passed her house,  surely she would have heard the shotgun blast spoken about by the witness Smith? Similarly,  had the shotgun blast involved any of the victims before Jeremy had left to go to his cottage at 9.30, june would have surely mentiones something about it during her phone call to her sister Panela at around 10pm?

Seems to mw that the shotgun blast incident happened after June had ended he call to her sister, with only June, Sheila, and the two children in the farmhouse, with Ralph still out working the fields. That way Sheila only had to deal with June..

[Caroline]

Arguably, yes, arguably, no. Witness recollected that at about 9.30pm, she heard Jeremys car, a Vauxhall Astra GTE  exit whf and drive off along Pages Lane, albeit she did not physically see that it was Jeremy that was driving the vehicle at that time, I think almost everyone accepts that it was him leaving the farm to go home. What I find to be significant is that this witness makes no mention of hearing the sound of a shotgun blast booming off at around the time Jeremys car was leaving - if she heard his car driving passed her house,  surely she would have heard the shotgun blast spoken about by the witness Smith? Similarly,  had the shotgun blast involved any of the victims before Jeremy had left to go to his cottage at 9.30, june would have surely mentiones something about it during her phone call to her sister Panela at around 10pm?

Seems to mw that the shotgun blast incident happened after June had ended he call to her sister, with only June, Sheila, and the two children in the farmhouse, with Ralph still out working the fields. That way Sheila only had to deal with June..

How convenient  . So some bloke heard the shot but the twins didn't? They all ended up in bed after that Mike - had Sheila being 'playing with LOADED guns' just after 10pm, Nevill would have made sure they were well out of her reach when he got home and there would have been no gun on the settle or bullets on the counter top IF that had occurred. Surely you're not suggesting that Sheila shot June with a shotgun around 10:15(ish) but it took Nevill 5 hours to call Jeremy and he doesn't mention that June has been shot - think if he had only just managed to get to a phone, he's have called 999 NOT Jeremy? In the meantime, with his wife already dead (or certainly VERY badly injured), he decides to put on his PJ's? This is all getting out of hand and it simply doesn't fit.

[scipio_usmc]

On the Contrary,  I don't make anything up. And in any event,  if I made it up as you falsely claimed,  how can you possibly expect  me to post up my source,  unless of course thats your way of admitting your à liar...

Your refusal to post a source in response to my challenge just proves you made it up as I suggested. Most of your claims are unsupported fiction made up by others or yourself.

The evidence always demonstrates the complete opposite of what you claim.

You keep doing it because people like Jan and lookout entertain your claims instead of demanding evidence before running with the wild suggestions.  If they refused to even consider the issue without proof like they should then you would quit because you can't provide any proof.

The only holes in June's gown were from 4 wounds corresponding to the 4 Anschutz bullets that entered/exited body areas where her clothing was. You won't be able to produce zilch to establish otherwise because you made it up.

You make up these wild things because you there is nothing real that suggests Jeremy is innocent.  You and his other supporters want to pretend he is so make things up to support the fiction.

[mike tesko]

How convenient  . So some bloke heard the shot but the twins didn't?  Children were probably already shot dead by the time Sheila discharged the shotgun.  On the other hand, Sheila possibly took the opportunity to kill her Children, when Ralph was still working late in the fields. They all ended up in bed after that Mike  [b Well, I don't know about that. Since there is no actual times of death, we can't say for certain at what stage Sheila shot both of her children. But my monies on them both being shot dead after Sheila finished the one sided phone call she had with Aunty Pamela. Then Sheila must have used the shotgun, before Ralph returned to the farmhouse from the fields later on.[/b]- had Sheila being 'playing with LOADED guns' just after 10pm, Nevill would have made sure they were well out of her reach when he got home There is no indication at what time Ralph returned home that evening. All we know is that it was so late that a relative of Ralphs took a tractor to the Caravan park, (Osea Road), instead of returning to whf, and he left his camper van parked up at the scene... and there would have been no gun on the settle or bullets on the counter top IF that had occurred. but it must not have happened quite like that / this on that particular evening... Surely you're not suggesting that Sheila shot June with a shotgun around 10:15(ish) I am saying, or as you put it, suggesting that Sheila discharged the shotgun at the scene, and that this is supported by the evidence of Smith who reported to the police that he heard a SHOTGUN BLAST come from the vicinity of whf between 9.30pm, and 10.15am, on the evening of the 6th August 1985. I am saying that there was opportunity for the blast which the witness Smith reportedly heard, to have been discharged by Sheila after June had finished her telephone conversation with her sister Pamela. I am saying that because there is no times of death, that Sheila could have, nay indeed she did shoot the children after ending the one sided telephone conversation with Pamela, and that the shotgun blast incident took place before Ralph had returned to the farmhouse from the fields...but it took Nevill 5 hours to call Jeremy and he doesn't mention that June has been shot I did not mean to suggest that June had been shot by Sheila with use of the shotgun, my point is that the shotgun got discharged and there is evidence that some of the small lead shots ended up penetrating June Bambers nightdress...- think if he had only just managed to get to a phone, he's have called 999 NOT Jeremy? I don't think Ralph had known anything about the discharge of the shotgun blast, by the time he felt compelled to phone Jeremy...In the meantime, with his wife already dead (or certainly VERY badly injured), he decides to put on his PJ's? again, you do not know when Ralph had put on his pyjamas, or for that matter in which part of the farmhouse he had put them on?This is all getting out of hand and it simply doesn't fit. I disagree, since police obviously thought that the shotgun had been used or discharged in some way, and as I say there is physical evidence in the form of peppered shots having damaged Junes nightdress, amongst other things which clearly implies that the shotgun was used in one form or another...

[Jane]

 Given the time frame you gave it would mean that she shot the twins before Pam called.

[scipio_usmc]

Children were probably already shot dead by the time Sheila discharged the shotgun.  On the other hand, Sheila possibly took the opportunity to kill her Children, when Ralph was still working late in the fields.  Sunce there is no actual times of death, we can't say for certain at what stGe Sheila shot both of her children. Byt myonues on them both being shot dead after Sheila finushed the one sifed phone call she had with aunty Pamela. The Sheila must have

While you were busy making up this nonsense you ignored that Jeremy claims around 3:10 he received a call from Nevill saying Sheila was running around crazy with a gun.  He didn't claim anyone had been shot or wounded and indeed if someone had been he would have said to call an ambulance because of such.

So Jeremy's own claim limits the shootings to taking place after this supposed phone call and by placing the timing of the call around 3:10 that means making up them being shot much earlier is downright foolish on your part. 

[Jan]

I don't think its even worth discussing I cant see how there would be evidence of shot gun pellets on clothes without injury. And we have not seen the report either.

Sheila could have help her father put the guns way earlier in the evening which would explain finger prints.  After all the family insisted he did that every night .

The shot gun could have been poachers out in the fields for all we know.