Author Topic: HOLD THE FRONT PAGE HEADLINE - Bamber was definitely framed. ..  (Read 101019 times)

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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: HOLD THE FRONT PAGE HEADLINE - Bamber was definitely framed. ..
« Reply #1245 on: July 27, 2015, 06:54:PM »
That's no bad thing because instead of reading what others have said  ,I'd rather work it out for myself and use my own methods and thoughts  that have remained personal to me.

It is a bad thing to not follow the evidence and believe whatever you desire without regard to the evidence.  Evaluating the evidence on your own to make sure of what the facts and evidence are and then following the evidence where it leads is fine, in fact this is what rational people do instead of just blindly believe what other say.  You don't do this though.  Rather you blindly take claims from books, news articles and various Jeremy supporters and in the process end up asserting bogus facts as a basis for your claims. You present bogus facts like the false claim that June and Nevill had claw marks from Sheila's nails on their arms instead of basing your position on real facts.

To evaluate this case on one's own requires reading all the publicly available court documents, police documents and witness statements and testimony, to evaluate that evidence and then based thereupon to assess what happened.

You cite books and websites and claims of Jeremy supporters not the evidence itself.  So while you claim you are deciding on your own in reality you simply decided what you want to believe after reading opinions form others and thus a from a position of ignorance (because only if one reads the available evidence and then decides are they deciding from an informed position) and then seek out whatever you can find that is favorable to the position you chose to take to try to justify it.

I don't need to go looking for things to justify my position.  The things I cite are the things I took into consideration in arriving at my position.  In contrast Jeremy supporters came to the decision he is innocent simply because that is what they choose to believe and go around seeking things to try to justify to others that such position is plausible.  Then after nothing useful is found a lot of twisting and contorting takes place to pretend there is evidence like the contorting to pretend Nevill called police.  This is a particularly good example because at first you said it makes no sense for Nevill to call police after calling Jeremy.  You said if he were going to call police he would not have bothered calling Jeremy.

After people explained to you that if Nevill called police it would prove Jeremy is innocent then you did an about face and said you believed it happened.  you believed it not because it is logical or supported by evidence but simply because it is favorable to Jeremy.

Since your compass to assess truth is based on whether something supports Jeremy or not then your compass is of no use in assessing truth.  That you believe something doesn't establish whether it is likely true or not all it reveals is that it must be favorable to Jeremy.  So when you render your opinion it provides little value for others to use to assess anything beyond what is favorable or unfavorable to Jeremy.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Jan

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Re: HOLD THE FRONT PAGE HEADLINE - Bamber was definitely framed. ..
« Reply #1246 on: July 27, 2015, 06:57:PM »
that post is quite funny really because in those days many officers would admit they just had a "gut" feeling that they had their man and went all out to get him convicted.

I am sure policing has changed now though.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: HOLD THE FRONT PAGE HEADLINE - Bamber was definitely framed. ..
« Reply #1247 on: July 27, 2015, 06:58:PM »
Ironically there is one thing both you and lookout agree on, That there was no conspiracy against him.

I don't know that lookout actually agrees with that.  Some of the things she supports such as when she started saying she did believe a call was made to police by Nevill would necessarily constitute a conspiracy against him.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Jane

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Re: HOLD THE FRONT PAGE HEADLINE - Bamber was definitely framed. ..
« Reply #1248 on: July 27, 2015, 07:07:PM »
that post is quite funny really because in those days many officers would admit they just had a "gut" feeling that they had their man and went all out to get him convicted.

I am sure policing has changed now though.



On the grounds of nothing being constantly 100% right, I'd say that an experienced "old school" copper probably COULD rely on a gut feeling. Even with advances in modern technology we still get it wrong some of the time. I guess we have to accept, and be satisfied with, that they get it right MOST of the time.

Offline Jan

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Re: HOLD THE FRONT PAGE HEADLINE - Bamber was definitely framed. ..
« Reply #1249 on: July 27, 2015, 07:48:PM »


On the grounds of nothing being constantly 100% right, I'd say that an experienced "old school" copper probably COULD rely on a gut feeling. Even with advances in modern technology we still get it wrong some of the time. I guess we have to accept, and be satisfied with, that they get it right MOST of the time.

I am not disagreeing with that - I was making the point that spocks attitude does not always work.

Offline David1819

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Re: HOLD THE FRONT PAGE HEADLINE - Bamber was definitely framed. ..
« Reply #1250 on: July 27, 2015, 07:50:PM »
that post is quite funny really because in those days many officers would admit they just had a "gut" feeling that they had their man and went all out to get him convicted.

I am sure policing has changed now though.

When questioning people you can sense they are lying or up to something.

Offline David1819

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Re: HOLD THE FRONT PAGE HEADLINE - Bamber was definitely framed. ..
« Reply #1251 on: July 27, 2015, 07:53:PM »
It is a bad thing to not follow the evidence and believe whatever you desire without regard to the evidence.  Evaluating the evidence on your own to make sure of what the facts and evidence are and then following the evidence where it leads is fine, in fact this is what rational people do instead of just blindly believe what other say.  You don't do this though.  Rather you blindly take claims from books, news articles and various Jeremy supporters and in the process end up asserting bogus facts as a basis for your claims. You present bogus facts like the false claim that June and Nevill had claw marks from Sheila's nails on their arms instead of basing your position on real facts.

To evaluate this case on one's own requires reading all the publicly available court documents, police documents and witness statements and testimony, to evaluate that evidence and then based thereupon to assess what happened.

You cite books and websites and claims of Jeremy supporters not the evidence itself.  So while you claim you are deciding on your own in reality you simply decided what you want to believe after reading opinions form others and thus a from a position of ignorance (because only if one reads the available evidence and then decides are they deciding from an informed position) and then seek out whatever you can find that is favorable to the position you chose to take to try to justify it.

I don't need to go looking for things to justify my position.  The things I cite are the things I took into consideration in arriving at my position.  In contrast Jeremy supporters came to the decision he is innocent simply because that is what they choose to believe and go around seeking things to try to justify to others that such position is plausible.  Then after nothing useful is found a lot of twisting and contorting takes place to pretend there is evidence like the contorting to pretend Nevill called police.  This is a particularly good example because at first you said it makes no sense for Nevill to call police after calling Jeremy.  You said if he were going to call police he would not have bothered calling Jeremy.

After people explained to you that if Nevill called police it would prove Jeremy is innocent then you did an about face and said you believed it happened.  you believed it not because it is logical or supported by evidence but simply because it is favorable to Jeremy.

Since your compass to assess truth is based on whether something supports Jeremy or not then your compass is of no use in assessing truth.  That you believe something doesn't establish whether it is likely true or not all it reveals is that it must be favorable to Jeremy.  So when you render your opinion it provides little value for others to use to assess anything beyond what is favorable or unfavorable to Jeremy.

I can sum up all 6 paragraphs into three words. 'Feels before Reals'

Baseing their decisions on feeling before thinking

Offline mike tesko

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Re: HOLD THE FRONT PAGE HEADLINE - Bamber was definitely framed. ..
« Reply #1252 on: July 27, 2015, 08:34:PM »
Sad as these statements are, what I did note was confirmation of what was said about Sheila having been " an unfit mother " as told by Colin to an ex girlfriend which had originally come from June.
I was slated on here for " making things up ". Thank God these things come to light if only for my own sanity knowing that I HAD seen such a remark.

yes, there will be a lot more documents being posted, to counter balance the lies being directed at members of the forum from the guilty supporters. The problem however in relying on the contents of these witness statements, is that almost in every case, there is more than one typed version of them. Furthermore, there exists original hand written versions of these various statements, which has some of their content edited out of the typed versions of the same. Worse still the hand writing in these hand writren statements is not the hand writing of the named witness, but the hand writing of one of the investigating police officers...

Many if not all these witness statements contain paraphrased information written in a format to try and assist the investigation...

As I say, different things are being said about the same event or occurence in other versions of a persons witness statement - this is where all the mischief arises in most miscarriages of justice.
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: HOLD THE FRONT PAGE HEADLINE - Bamber was definitely framed. ..
« Reply #1253 on: July 27, 2015, 08:41:PM »
It doesn't say she was 'an unfit mother' it says she was unfit due to her illness. The implications of 'unfit mother' is something quite different to having an illness.

She was an "unfit mother", due to her continuing illness, which did not appear to have any prospect of getting any better. If anything, she was on a downward spiral, losing grip of the situation, staring, looking vacant, not wanting anybody to take her boys from her. She must have thought like July Mugford had done when she tried to suffocate Jeremy with a pillow because he tried to make a date with an old flame of his, "if I can't have you all to myself, no-one else is going to have you either...

Same sort of female mentality in both instances, the only difference being, that Julie Mugford was just a liar, whereas Sheila, well she was very poorly...
« Last Edit: July 27, 2015, 09:27:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Caroline

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Re: HOLD THE FRONT PAGE HEADLINE - Bamber was definitely framed. ..
« Reply #1254 on: July 27, 2015, 08:51:PM »
She was an "unfit mother", due to her continuing illness, which did not appear to have any prospect of getting any better. If anything, she was on a downward spiral, losing grip of the situation, staring, looking vacant, not wanting anybody to take her boys from her. She must have thought like July Mugford had done when she tried to suffocate Jeremy with a pillow because hetried to make a date with an old flame of his, "if I can't have you all to myself, no-one else is going 5o have you either...

Same sort of female mentality in both instances, the only difference being, that Julie Mugford was just a liar, whereas Sheila, well she was very poorly...

And yet they were living with Colin.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline lookout

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Re: HOLD THE FRONT PAGE HEADLINE - Bamber was definitely framed. ..
« Reply #1255 on: July 27, 2015, 08:56:PM »
Sheila was no fool as she was also aware that she'd been " replaced " by Heather which must have really got to her. Imagine seeing another woman interacting with YOUR children. It's enough to send anyone over the edge ill or not.

Offline Jane

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Re: HOLD THE FRONT PAGE HEADLINE - Bamber was definitely framed. ..
« Reply #1256 on: July 27, 2015, 09:01:PM »
Sheila was no fool as she was also aware that she'd been " replaced " by Heather which must have really got to her. Imagine seeing another woman interacting with YOUR children. It's enough to send anyone over the edge ill or not.



Given that almost half of marriages end in divorce and children are being bought up by those other than biological parents it must mean that a huge part of the population is "over the edge"

Offline lookout

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Re: HOLD THE FRONT PAGE HEADLINE - Bamber was definitely framed. ..
« Reply #1257 on: July 27, 2015, 09:09:PM »


Given that almost half of marriages end in divorce and children are being bought up by those other than biological parents it must mean that a huge part of the population is "over the edge"





A woman can't be normal if she doesn't feel anything about another strange woman living with the father of her children,and including the children. It would have driven me over the edge that's for sure. My children belonged to me and nobody else and I can imagine how Sheila must have felt. Not that the devastating experience happened to me because it didn't.

Offline David1819

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Re: HOLD THE FRONT PAGE HEADLINE - Bamber was definitely framed. ..
« Reply #1258 on: July 27, 2015, 10:18:PM »


Given that almost half of marriages end in divorce and children are being bought up by those other than biological parents it must mean that a huge part of the population is "over the edge"

That's different, having step mothers and step fathers is today different from adoption

Offline mike tesko

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Re: HOLD THE FRONT PAGE HEADLINE - Bamber was definitely framed. ..
« Reply #1259 on: July 27, 2015, 10:54:PM »
And yet they were living with Colin.

But not living with Colin on the occasion they went to stay for the last time at the farm, suddenly, Sheila's inability to look after her two boys  exposed the danger to her parents causing them to have a heated argument about foster caring issues, whilst June, Sheila and Ralph sat around the supper table, for what turned out to be the last supper...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...