Police log contents, and position of bodies in photographs don't add up, CRIKEY.

[Caroline]

Pc West and Bonnets excuse about making a mistake over the timing of Jeremy's call is really unacceptable...

Even the judgement from the 2002 appeal, makes comment about the fact that the occupants of CA07 had been deployed to the incident before Jeremy made his own call to the police at Chelmsford? There is no  doubt whatsoever in my mind that the appellate court saw right through the lies of West and Bonnet. It would have been the easiest of thinga to do bt either West or Bonnet to be asked the basic question,  and to give a straight forward "Yes", or "No", answer to whether or not the occupants of CA07, had been deployed to the incident before or after Jeremy's call?

But you're saying the same thing about Jeremy? Jeremy himself argued that he called police BEFORE 03:36 - can't have it both ways Mike.

[Jane]

Pc West and Bonnets excuse about making a mistake over the timing of Jeremy's call is really unacceptable...

Even the judgement from the 2002 appeal, makes comment about the fact that the occupants of CA07 had been deployed to the incident before Jeremy made his own call to the police at Chelmsford? There is no  doubt whatsoever in my mind that the appellate court saw right through the lies of West and Bonnet. It would have been the easiest of thinga to do bt either West or Bonnet to be asked the basic question,  and to give a straight forward "Yes", or "No", answer to whether or not the occupants of CA07, had been deployed to the incident before or after Jeremy's call?

Much has been made of the fact that the police car couldn't have made it to Goldhanger in the allotted time but if it had already been in the area from another shout it would have been THERE almost before the phone conversation was over.

[mike tesko]

There would of course, be serious consequences if either West or Bonnet decided to falsify an answer...

[Caroline]

There would of course, be serious consequences if either West or Bonnet decided to falsify an answer...

But they didn't.

[Reader]

West didn't say how long it took the operator to get back to him.

That's correct. It's possible that the operator "got back to him" almost immediately rather than by calling him back.

This timetable is entirely made up.

It's based on Pc West's evidence at trial, not made up. What you're claiming is that Pc West grossly underestimated the times he gave in his evidence.
 

Jeremy insisted he spoke to Julie after calling Chelmsford.

That's a misleading simplification of what was stated in Jeremy's interview. Jeremy was saying he couldn't remember, but thought that his original statement would have been correct. If Jeremy attempted to call Witham before calling Chelmsford, that allows his original statement to be interpreted differently. It just happens that Jeremy wasn't asked specifically about that and doesn't seem to remember (at trial ans subsequently) whether he did or didn't try to call Witham.

I know that West estimated he was on the phone for less than a minute before placing Jeremy on hold but his estimate is not credible it would have taken several minutes to record everything he got from Jeremy.

Even so, it's still possible that the four portions of the call took 2 minutes (taking details initially), 2 minutes (passing the  details to Bonnett), 1 minute (contacting Witham by radio), and 1 minute (final conversation with Jeremy, asking him to got to WHF and telling him that a police car was on its way).

[Reader]

It's funny how pedantic you are when quoting the time that police gave in their statements, not so much for Jeremy though, who (it is claimed) probably indicated the wrong time because he got a bit confused (bless). Jeremy's memory was a LOT fresher than West's, when he made his statement the day after the murders.

You seem to be assuming that Jeremy looked at his watch or a clock. I think he didn't, and that he didn't realize that the times the police mentioned to him were inaccurate. In contrast, it was part of Pc West's job to create records and use correct times.

[Adam]

You seem to be assuming that Jeremy looked at his watch or a clock. I think he didn't, and that he didn't realize that the times the police mentioned to him were inaccurate. In contrast, it was part of Pc West's job to create records and use correct times.

Would he not check the time in his bedroom when being woken from 'sleeping like a log'.

I would. And then ignore the call.

[Jane]

That's correct. It's possible that the operator "got back to him" almost immediately rather than by calling him back.
It's based on Pc West's evidence at trial, not made up. What you're claiming is that Pc West grossly underestimated the times he gave in his evidence.
  That's a misleading simplification of what was stated in Jeremy's interview. Jeremy was saying he couldn't remember, but thought that his original statement would have been correct. If Jeremy attempted to call Witham before calling Chelmsford, that allows his original statement to be interpreted differently. It just happens that Jeremy wasn't asked specifically about that and doesn't seem to remember (at trial ans subsequently) whether he did or didn't try to call Witham.
Even so, it's still possible that the four portions of the call took 2 minutes (taking details initially), 2 minutes (passing the  details to Bonnett), 1 minute (contacting Witham by radio), and 1 minute (final conversation with Jeremy, asking him to got to WHF and telling him that a police car was on its way).

It seems to me that everything you say is based on hypotheticals. Whatever is said to have happened factually you manage to put another twist on. By your reckoning, if this method is applied to EVERY convicted criminal's trial, there's every reason to think they should all be released.

[Jan]

You seem to be assuming that Jeremy looked at his watch or a clock. I think he didn't, and that he didn't realize that the times the police mentioned to him were inaccurate. In contrast, it was part of Pc West's job to create records and use correct times.

that is what I have always argued . The only people you would expect not to change times and to make accurate records of timing in a situation like this are the police. It is their job.

Whereas others who at the time may not understand the importance of timings or could be stressed or shocked  at the time would be expected to be making approximations.

In the OS I think Jeremys timings and Julies were not that far out ( as far as I can remember)

But the 10 minutes change by EP - could have been vital .

[Jane]

that is what I have always argued . The only people you would expect not to change times and to make accurate records of timing in a situation like this are the police. It is their job.

Whereas others who at the time may not understand the importance of timings or could be stressed or shocked  at the time would be expected to be making approximations.

In the OS I think Jeremys timings and Julies were not that far out ( as far as I can remember)

But the 10 minutes change by EP - could have been vital .

But didn't both Julie and Jeremy change the timings? If we're factoring in agendas here, it's far more likely that they, rather than the police, would have them.

[Reader]

The times Jeremy mentioned at trial must also be inaccurate then

What times are you referring to? If he hadn't checked the times when things happened, he wouldn't know the correct times when giving evidence at his trial. The defence didn't understand the times, but hadn't cottoned on that Nevill had also called the police, so they didn't realize the reasons the prosecution had for providing incorrect times.

There is no evidence or mention of Jeremy getting dressed because he already was dressed!

His father had asked him to come over, but he wasn't sure what to do. In those circumstances, it's quite possible that he telephoned Julie (and possibly Witham) and also got dressed before calling Pc West. It wasn't until much later that the significance of such details began to become apparent.  At the time, he wasn't asked when he got dressed, so he didn't mention it.

[Adam]

I thought Bamber has always said he received the call at 3.10am. What other times has he given ?

He changed the time he phoned the police to 3.36am so he could claim Neville phoned the police at 3.26am. Although he did not include Neville's call to the police in the 2012 CCRC submission.

[Adam]

Bamber changed the time he phoned Chelmsford police from 'immediately' after 3.10am, to 3.36am.

This fits with apparent new evidence that Neville also called the forth furthest away police station at 3.26am.

Was this new evidence in the 2012 CCRC application ? In a word 'no'.

[Caroline]

You seem to be assuming that Jeremy looked at his watch or a clock. I think he didn't, and that he didn't realize that the times the police mentioned to him were inaccurate. In contrast, it was part of Pc West's job to create records and use correct times.

You are stating that what he said was incorrect without ANY basis for doing so. You are being completely self serving and changing facts to suit yourself. I'm not assuming anything, all the assuming is coming from you! I'm sticking to the FACTS and the FACT of this matter is that Jeremy stated his father call around 03:10! he also disputed calling police at 03:36 but now he's trying to suggest Nevill called - he's arguing the opposite. It will never wash and will get laughed out of the CCRC if it forms part of the submissions.

[Jane]

What times are you referring to? If he hadn't checked the times when things happened, he wouldn't know the correct times when giving evidence at his trial. The defence didn't understand the times, but hadn't cottoned on that Nevill had also called the police, so they didn't realize the reasons the prosecution had for providing incorrect times.
His father had asked him to come over, but he wasn't sure what to do. In those circumstances, it's quite possible that he telephoned Julie (and possibly Witham) and also got dressed before calling Pc West. It wasn't until much later that the significance of such details began to become apparent.  At the time, he wasn't asked when he got dressed, so he didn't mention it.

We're not talking about a child here, Reader. He'd spent years at boarding school where he'd have learned independence. He'd spent time in OZ. He had his own home. I don't buy "he wasn't sure what to do". What I DO buy is that there was NO call from Neville and the cally Jeremy made were part of his alibi.