Police log contents, and position of bodies in photographs don't add up, CRIKEY.

[Jane]

PC West and Malcolm Bonnetts logs do not accurately reflect what Jeremy and Ralph Bamber told them. They ommitted significant exchanges of conversation, which identified Ralph as one caller (3.26am), and Jeremy as the other caller (3.36am)....

Interesting. We now have Neville phoning Jeremy circa 3am "sounding panicked". He then calls the police himself at 3.26  -we must assume HE,having sounded panicked, didn't wade through the phone book to find a local station which was open but did the logical thing, given that his daughter had gone mad and had got hold of a gun!!! and dialled 999-  but it took Jeremy -even though he said his father had sounded panicked, approximately 30 minutes to make a local call which had to have lasted more than seconds because he was put on hold- so it leaves one at a loss as to how he managed to get himself to WHF at the time he did having been seen to be driving a a snail's pace!!!

[scipio_usmc]

If as you say,that Bird took photo's well after the raid,the one of Sheila didn't look as though it had been taken hours after the raid--------------or she'd have appeared peuce in colour !! She wasn't,she was comparatively pale,which would indicate a couple of hours deceased when her pic was taken.

She was already long dead by the time she was declared dead by Dr Craig which is why the pool of blood on the floor, blood on her face and on her gown was dry.  She was murdered before Jeremy ever called the police which is why the food she ate 8-9:30 was still in her stomach and why rigor was already fully established when she was autopsied.  It is not possible for one of the other victims to have killed Sheila and then to have committed suicide themselves.  This means someone else who fled the scene is the one who shot them all including Sheila. Then after killing her her body was dragged flat, the moderator was removed and put in the closet while the gun was placed on her body and the Bible was placed in a pool of blood that formed after her body was moved flat. None of the victims did these things to her.  No one slipped out of the house after police arrived who could have  done it so that means these things happened before police ever arrived.

[Caroline]

PC West and Malcolm Bonnetts logs do not accurately reflect what Jeremy and Ralph Bamber told them. They ommitted significant exchanges of conversation, which identified Ralph as one caller (3.26am), and Jeremy as the other caller (3.36am)....

So Nevill left the phone off the hook twice then? Jeremy tried to call his father back just after 03:10 and it was engaged then so what was Nevill doing with the phone for around 15 minutes before using it again to call the police at 03:26? Then (according to both you (and now Jeremy)), Nevill calls the police and STILL the phone remains off the hook, when the call ends?

I think the phone was off the hook because Jeremy didn't want to alert the police that (supposedly) immediately after the call from his father (who hadn't mentioned anything about anyone being shot or even injured), there was no one able to answer the phone. 

[Caroline]

If as you say,that Bird took photo's well after the raid,the one of Sheila didn't look as though it had been taken hours after the raid--------------or she'd have appeared peuce in colour !! She wasn't,she was comparatively pale,which would indicate a couple of hours deceased when her pic was taken.

She is discoloured and the blood from her mouth is dried and cracking.

[scipio_usmc]

So Nevill left the phone off the hook twice then? Jeremy tried to call his father back just after 03:10 and it was engaged then so what was Nevill doing with the phone for around 15 minutes before using it again to call the police at 03:26? Then (according to both you (and now Jeremy)), Nevill calls the police and STILL the phone remains off the hook, when the call ends?

I think the phone was off the hook because Jeremy didn't want to alert the police that (supposedly) immediately after the call from his father (who hadn't mentioned anything about anyone being shot or even injured), there was no one able to answer the phone.

Those Jeremy supporters who claim Nevill called typically claim Jeremy was wrong about the time Nevill phoned and that it was actually after 3:20am.  They say that Nevill immediately called police after Jeremy so that is why Jeremy got a busy signal.  Of course there is zero evidence to support a call by Nevill to police and all of this including altering the time Jeremy allegedly received the call is simply contrived by biased people who know they have nothing legitimate to raise and raise this horse crap to try to fool the public. They lack any evidence to use to make these arguments to a court so these claims are of no legal value they are used simply for propaganda purposes.

Jeremy took the phone off the hook for 2 reasons.  First, he claimed the call was disconnected before he could ask any questions and any rational person would either: A) rush over; B) call 999 or C) try calling their father back to get clarification and more details of precisely what was going on.   He knew this and thus claimed he tried to call back but could not get through.  The intended implication being Nevill was attacked while on the phone with Jeremy.  The phone being left off the hook was critical to such but what he didn't realize was that he would not be able to use his own phone for several minutes if that had occurred.

The secondary reason for leaving it off the hook is police would definitely know something was wrong if they tried calling but no one answered. That would be an indication no one was able to answer. Leaving it off the hook prevented West from calling the house. Police were scared to knock on the door themselves and instead called for armed personnel to come handle things. This caused a delay which helped prevent police from seeing the bodied immediately and that helped prevent police from being able to see the bodies and determine they died sooner than Jeremy claimed he received the call.  Jeremy had no idea if they could tell such or not so needed a delayed reaction from them.

 

[Caroline]

Those Jeremy supporters who claim Nevill called typically claim Jeremy was wrong about the time Nevill phoned and that it was actually after 3:20am.  They say that Nevill immediately called police after Jeremy so that is why Jeremy got a busy signal.  Of course there is zero evidence to support a call by Nevill to police and all of this including altering the time Jeremy allegedly received the call is simply contrived by biased people who know they have nothing legitimate to raise and raise this horse crap to try to fool the public. They lack any evidence to use to make these arguments to a court so these claims are of no legal value they are used simply for propaganda purposes.

Jeremy took the phone off the hook for 2 reasons.  First, he claimed the call was disconnected before he could ask any questions and any rational person would either: A) rush over; B) call 999 or C) try calling their father back to get clarification and more details of precisely what was going on.   He knew this and thus claimed he tried to call back but could not get through.  The intended implication being Nevill was attacked while on the phone with Jeremy.  The phone being left off the hook was critical to such but what he didn't realize was that he would not be able to use his own phone for several minutes if that had occurred.

The secondary reason for leaving it off the hook is police would definitely know something was wrong if they tried calling but no one answered. That would be an indication no one was able to answer. Leaving it off the hook prevented West from calling the house. Police were scared to knock on the door themselves and instead called for armed personnel to come handle things. This caused a delay which helped prevent police from seeing the bodied immediately and that helped prevent police from being able to see the bodies and determine they died sooner than Jeremy claimed he received the call.  Jeremy had no idea if they could tell such or not so needed a delayed reaction from them.

I just said that 

[lookout]

She is discoloured and the blood from her mouth is dried and cracking.

The grainey pic accentuates the poor quality which others will see as the real thing. Whereas other pics that are shown, i.e. coloured,show them entirely different.   Were the jury shown these as opposed to others we've seen ?

[Jane]

The grainey pic accentuates the poor quality which others will see as the real thing. Whereas other pics that are shown, i.e. coloured,show them entirely different.   Were the jury shown these as opposed to others we've seen ?

Lookout, I agree that the picture is of extremely poor quality but the blood is definitely dried and cracking, and the side of her face is definitely discoloured. I would have thought that pictures of a better quality would enhance these facts rather than detract from them.

[lookout]

Lookout, I agree that the picture is of extremely poor quality but the blood is definitely dried and cracking, and the side of her face is definitely discoloured. I would have thought that pictures of a better quality would enhance these facts rather than detract from them.

Hi April,it does make you wonder which are more true.Whichever fit the bill of the debate,I suppose.

[Jane]

Hi April,it does make you wonder which are more true.Whichever fit the bill of the debate,I suppose.

Lookout, I think many of the pictures we see are probably reprints of reprints and there ARE those which I suspect have been frankly bogus. The newer, coloured ones may be clearer but one suspects a degree of enhancement as in bright red blood which appears to be free flowing.....................you ain't the only sceptic here 

[scipio_usmc]

Hi April,it does make you wonder which are more true.Whichever fit the bill of the debate,I suppose.

Body photos are considered prejudicial usually. Most defense lawyers try to keep them out.  The testimony regarding the blood being dry is what matters anyway.  Most court evidence is adduced through testimony of witnesses.

You are ignoring that the defense didn't try to argue that Sheila died later than everyone else, the defense made no attempt to argue Sheila died many hours later since they had no evidence to use to suggest such.

Since we are not limited to the rules of evidence that exist in court we can make any claims we want no matter how ridiculous or lacking in any evidentiary foundation.  Thus Mike can make all the wild claims he desires.  Rational objective people though still require evidence to prove such claims including the allegations to actually make sense.

Police needing to conceal they shot Sheila because she attacked them upon entry makes no sense.  If police had shot her but wanted to lie and pretend She killed herself it would not be necessary to move her body upstairs.  They could pretend she killed herself in the kitchen just as easily.  So moving her makes no sense.  Mike doesn't worry about his claims making sense though he already stated to me damn the torpedoes full speed ahead. With the same attitude he ignores that the Xray matches the shape of the .22LR bullet fragment (PV/20) that was produced at trial and insists Vanezis lied about it being 22LR and that after it was removed by Vanezis the lab substituted a 22LR fragment in place of a jacketed .223/5.56mm police bullet.

His claims are not credible they are just wild unsupported allegations that make no sense and thus these claims were neither made at the trial nor to any Appeal Courts.  These claims are made hoping that people who never saw the Xray and are generally unaware of the facts and evidence will simply buy the unsupported claims.

I don't really understand the whole propaganda effort. I care about things that have legal utility.  I don't know what purpose the propaganda effort it is suppose to serve in the end- it seems to at most to be trying to help out Jeremy's legacy by trying to make sure their is an asterisk by his name noting some believe he was innocent and a victim of a MOJ.

 

[Caroline]

The grainey pic accentuates the poor quality which others will see as the real thing. Whereas other pics that are shown, i.e. coloured,show them entirely different.   Were the jury shown these as opposed to others we've seen ?

This is the same picture Lookout.

[Caroline]

As is this

[Jane]

Senior officers were not influenced by anything what Jeremy had said to other bit part players...

These senior officers were highly trained, intelligent people, and they would not have been influenced in the slightest by what anyone else might have said at any stage. Plus, they knew the truth that the police had shot Sheila and killed her...

Mike, I don't think you could be more wrong here. Which person, at the scene, knew the family better than anyone else there? It was Jeremy. Without his initial input, the police were in the dark. It's an indisputable fact that when we are devoid of knowledge we believe what we learn from the person we perceive as having knowledge. MOST here fell into that category when they first joined the forum. Somewhere down the line, as they did their own research and gained more knowledge, many began to doubt what they'd initially accepted and went on to form their own opinions. Once the police were able to set aside what Jeremy had told them, they were able to view the scene rather differently.

[lookout]

Lookout, I think many of the pictures we see are probably reprints of reprints and there ARE those which I suspect have been frankly bogus. The newer, coloured ones may be clearer but one suspects a degree of enhancement as in bright red blood which appears to be free flowing.....................you ain't the only sceptic here 

A lot of EVERYTHING has been doctored I suspect,April.