Exhibits from the family

[maggie]

Knowing a birthday and birth year are 2 different things.  When young you will see the candles on the cake and know the exact age of your siblings.  It won't be the result of calculations it will be from seeing the signs or candles that say happy 8th Birthday. When that stops you lose count of which birthday they are having. It just becomes happy birthday and only milestones are celebrated with a special sign or card. Adoptees are even less likely to see things that would ingrain a birth year in their mind.  It is an added handicap in an issue with plenty of handicaps already.

I simply don't agree, a secure family is just that whether bio or not. Birthdays are landmarks, cards are sent, presents bought and families celebrate, don't they? I can understand JB as a young man getting his big sisters age mixed up but it has NOTHING to do with being adopted.

[scipio_usmc]

I agree that children will be more concerned with the number of candles on the cake than the year of their sibling's birth. The birth year may not arise until mental arithmetic time, or later. I HAVE to write down birth dates because I'm not numerically literate. I'm far from certain about how you've come to that conclusion about adoptees but I am my only frame of reference. I think between us we've thrown in enough variables for the age error to have occurred in any number of ways.

I stated where I came up with it- hospital birth documents and the like that exist for natural children will not exist for adopted children and thus there are even fewer things existing that siblings could come across highlighting a birth year than they could potentially come across if a sibling is a natural child.  Some keep sonograms and videos with dates on them. My oldest cousin had his birth taped.  When we visited I noticed the tape among all their cartoons.  It had "Michael's birth" and the full date written on the title.  His siblings could potentially have memorized the date from seeing the tape so often as they looked through them.  I only saw it a couple of times so the year wasn't ingrained in my memory but given enough exposure it would have been. My simple point was in general  there are more things that exist which can expose siblings to the birth year of a natural child than an adopted one. 

 

[maggie]

I stated where I came up with it- hospital birth documents and the like that exist for natural children will not exist for adopted children and thus there are even fewer things existing that siblings could come across highlighting a birth year than they could potentially come across if a sibling is a natural child.  Some keep sonograms and videos with dates on them. My oldest cousin had his birth taped.  When we visited I noticed the tape among all their cartoons.  It had "Michael's birth" and the full date written on the title.  His siblings could potentially have memorized the date from seeing the tape so often as they looked through them.  I only saw it a couple of times so the year wasn't ingrained in my memory but given enough exposure it would have been. My simple point was in general  there are more things that exist which can expose siblings to the birth year of a natural child than an adopted one. 

 

I don't agree with you Scorpio, it's up to the adoptive parents to treat adopted kids as least as well as their own, there is no reason why their birthdays would be less well known. I just don't get where you're coming from, a family is a family however it comes together.

[Jane]

I stated where I came up with it- hospital birth documents and the like that exist for natural children will not exist for adopted children and thus there are even fewer things existing that siblings could come across highlighting a birth year than they could potentially come across if a sibling is a natural child.  Some keep sonograms and videos with dates on them. My oldest cousin had his birth taped.  When we visited I noticed the tape among all their cartoons.  It had "Michael's birth" and the full date written on the title.  His siblings could potentially have memorized the date from seeing the tape so often as they looked through them.  I only saw it a couple of times so the year wasn't ingrained in my memory but given enough exposure it would have been. My simple point was in general  there are more things that exist which can expose siblings to the birth year of a natural child than an adopted one. 

 

Clearly that is your own frame of reference. Things here are not the same. We -that is adopteds AND biologicals-  don't have hospital birth documents although I expect the hospitals do. Our frame of reference is entirely different.

[maggie]

Clearly that is your own frame of reference. Things here are not the same. We -that is adopteds AND biologicals-  don't have hospital birth documents although I expect the hospitals do. Our frame of reference is entirely different.

True April but even without birth certificates and maybe wrong information given about birth date etc.siblings in any well adjusted family surely know everyone's birthday? What's adoption got to do with it? (Am asking Scorpio not you ).

[Jane]

True April but even without birth certificates and maybe wrong information given about birth date etc.siblings in any well adjusted family surely know everyone's birthday? What's adoption got to do with it? (Am asking Scorpio not you ).

I hear what you say but occasionally there are extenuating circumstances. My stepma-in-law was the youngest of 13 children who lived in a 3 bedroomed house. She recalled that one of her brothers died during the war but had never known him. One of her sisters made an excellent marriage but she had no memory of knowing her. The chances are that in her first memory of siblings there are probably only 5 others, the rest having left school and left home to go to live in jobs or do war work. MOST of them never kept in touch and there was never enough money for birthdays to be remembered by more than "Happy Birthday."

[scipio_usmc]

True April but even without birth certificates and maybe wrong information given about birth date etc.siblings in any well adjusted family surely know everyone's birthday? What's adoption got to do with it? (Am asking Scorpio not you ).

Those siblings that know the birth year of their siblings typically learn such from the methods I mentioned.  Absent such most don't the year of birth they know the month and day because that is what is celebrated year after year growing up.  They know how many years older/younger in general and calculate age by that method.  The problem with that is that it fluctuates.  Sometimes Sheila was 4 years older sometimes 5. It depends on the time of the year.  You have to actually think about what day it is and what day their birthday falls to figure out if she is 4 year or 5 years older than him on any given day.     He seems to have decided to run with the 4 year figure.  If he were genuinely worried he would have had more important things on his mind than trying to figure out if their birthday was 4 years apart or 5 years apart at that exact moment so the error wasn't suspicious to police.  In contrast not knowing her last name was somewhat noteworthy.   

[maggie]

I hear what you say but occasionally there are extenuating circumstances. My stepma-in-law was the youngest of 13 children who lived in a 3 bedroomed house. She recalled that one of her brothers died during the war but had never known him. One of her sisters made an excellent marriage but she had no memory of knowing her. The chances are that in her first memory of siblings there are probably only 5 others, the rest having left school and left home to go to live in jobs or do war work. MOST of them never kept in touch and there was never enough money for birthdays to be remembered by more than "Happy Birthday."

I understand that April am just saying to Scorpio that adoption has nothing to do with it.

[maggie]

Those siblings that know the birth year of their siblings typically learn such from the methods I mentioned.  Absent such most don't the year of birth they know the month and day because that is what is celebrated year after year growing up.  They know how many years older/younger in general and calculate age by that method.  The problem with that is that it fluctuates.  Sometimes Sheila was 4 years older sometimes 5. It depends on the time of the year.  You have to actually think about what day it is and what day their birthday falls to figure out if she is 4 year or 5 years older than him on any given day.     He seems to have decided to run with the 4 year figure.  If he were genuinely worried he would have had more important things on his mind than trying to figure out if their birthday was 4 years apart or 5 years apart at that exact moment so the error wasn't suspicious to police.  In contrast not knowing her last name was somewhat noteworthy.

That's all fair enough just saying it has nothing to do with adoption, I can also understand how he may have forgotten her name as he would be under some stress for one reason or another imo.

[scipio_usmc]

Clearly that is your own frame of reference. Things here are not the same. We -that is adopteds AND biologicals-  don't have hospital birth documents although I expect the hospitals do. Our frame of reference is entirely different.

It doesn't matter whether you agree or not with my assessment.  You said you don't understand where I came up with it but I explained my reasoning.  There is no mystery as to where my position comes from.

[Jane]

It doesn't matter whether you agree or not with my assessment.  You said you don't understand where I came up with it but I explained my reasoning.  There is no mystery as to where my position comes from.

Were you disagreeing with my assessment, then. I have never had your experience. You have never experienced mine. ERGO, our experiences are different which is neither right nor wrong..........................just other.

[maggie]

Were you disagreeing with my assessment, then. I have never had your experience. You have never experienced mine. ERGO, our experiences are different which is neither right nor wrong..........................just other.

True.

[susan]

True.

Maggie you and April have had totally different experiences but similar if you get my meaning

[maggie]

Maggie you and April have had totally different experiences but similar if you get my meaning

Same ball park possibly.   however everyone's experience is different and we see it from different angles as well however I have read what I can to try to help me understand all angles but it's complicated and always personal.

[susan]

Same ball park possibly.   however everyone's experience is different and we see it from different angles as well however I have read what I can to try to help me understand all angles but it's complicated and always personal.

Maggie
I would think it is a very complex matter both from your stance and from April's I am totally ignorant on Adoption but I think more is known and understood about it now than ever before.