Exhibits from the family

[Jane]

Surely Jeremy would have known the word panicked,and also the difference between ringing 999 as opposed to the number of the station. Why did he even mention the word ? He needn't have done,need he if it was that he'd planned something. ?
To my mind he said too much for it to have been planned. He may as well have just said he did it and be done with.
A customer doesn't tell a shopkeeper that he's going to burgle his shop.That's too easy. He keeps his mouth shut.
I just can't believe the stupidity of carrying out a crime,after telling two people their intentions,then leaving clues left right and centre. So either Jeremy didn't do it,or he's suffering from mental retardation,because nobody on this earth is that dumb.

It gets worse as you go along if you start looking for all the faux-pars. If you list them all,nobody would believe he was the murderer.

But Lookout, YOU'RE coming from a place where Neville made a phone call. I'M coming from a place where he didn't.

Looking at it from you're perspective. Of COURSE Jeremy would have know the things you mentioned. And acted/responded accordingly/instinctively. He didn't.

Looking at it from my perspective, he threw in the word almost as an after thought, having been put on hold, as a way of building up a picture of him having received a call. I feel very confident that if one of my friends rang me sounding panicked I would pick up on that panic and I would instinctively convey that panic to the next person I spoke with. So there is a situation where Jeremy, as an after thought, threw in the word. He didn't feel it because the call had never been made so he hadn't experienced it. IF the call had been genuine, having heard "Gone mad, got hold of a gun" at 3am he would have FELT Neville's panic. You can tell me till cows return that Neville was a man who had no time for police, insisted that things were kept en famille, that he always managed to calm Sheila down but that call, had it happened, would have indicated that something was VERY wrong and things were out of his control. It would have caused Jeremy to respond in a totally other way. He didn't because he wasn't feeling ANY of what he said he heard so much of it was probably made up as he went.

It matters not that he spoke to others of possible plans. He could admit at some point that he'd had such thoughts from time to time.......................but lucky him, Sheila beat him to it, didn't she.

[Jane]

There were two mistakes with Seila's age-

1) Either Jeremy telling her age wrong to West

or

Jeremy telling west her correct age but West screwing it up and recording a different age than Jeremy told him

and

2) Either West verbally telling Bonnett a different age than West recorded in writing

or

Bonnett accidentally writing down a different age than West told him either because he misheard or misrembered by the time he wrote it down.


I think Jeremy screwing up her age is rather likely and not a big deal.  Not remembering her last name is more surprising that he should really have known. I think Jeremy had to build up courage to call the police and was practicing what he would say and that is why there was the time gap between him calling Julie and calling police. He was so focused on the story he was making up he didn't pay as much attention to trying to think of her last name or trying to calculate her age.

Yeh, I said the same thing but I did a precis

[scipio_usmc]

Remember one thing,liars have got good memories. Jeremy's memory was somewhat rusty,especially about the times of the calls.
He certainly tried to fathom out the times,but kept on being contradicted by EP on his arrest,which naturally confuses the best of us when someone else butts in with their own interpretations.

I'm looking at this case from a more humane view on how I would have reacted under pressure. I'd have crumbled and told them all to sod off.

Liars have bad memories that is how they get caught.  They forget the lie they told last and end up contradicting their own claims.  Good liars either say little or have good memories and stay in character forever so are not caught in contradictions.  Extraneous evidence can be used to prove people lie though it doesn't just take liars contradicting themselves.  Successful liars make up lies there are no way of disproving and stick to their story without fail.

 

[lookout]

But Lookout, YOU'RE coming from a place where Neville made a phone call. I'M coming from a place where he didn't.

Looking at it from you're perspective. Of COURSE Jeremy would have know the things you mentioned. And acted/responded accordingly/instinctively. He didn't.

Looking at it from my perspective, he threw in the word almost as an after thought, having been put on hold, as a way of building up a picture of him having received a call. I feel very confident that if one of my friends rang me sounding panicked I would pick up on that panic and I would instinctively convey that panic to the next person I spoke with. So there is a situation where Jeremy, as an after thought, threw in the word. He didn't feel it because the call had never been made so he hadn't experienced it. IF the call had been genuine, having heard "Gone mad, got hold of a gun" at 3am he would have FELT Neville's panic. You can tell me till cows return that Neville was a man who had no time for police, insisted that things were kept en famille, that he always managed to calm Sheila down but that call, had it happened, would have indicated that something was VERY wrong and things were out of his control. It would have caused Jeremy to respond in a totally other way. He didn't because he wasn't feeling ANY of what he said he heard so much of it was probably made up as he went.

It matters not that he spoke to others of possible plans. He could admit at some point that he'd had such thoughts from time to time.......................but lucky him, Sheila beat him to it, didn't she.

I would have said that Jeremy was put on the spot as regards having been questioned because it's something that he would have least expected,as would anyone if they were innocent of any wrong doing.
The tragedy alone would numb the mind without having to face a barrage of questions that you were ill-prepared for.
I honestly can't believe why and how he was blamed. Sods law--------the last man standing,he'll fit the bill with this list of hearsay and circumstantial evidence.
I'm not convinced otherwise.

[lookout]

It's a known fact too,that years later you remember,or rather he'd remember snippets of things better than he would have at the time of the tragedy. Certain things in his life will have come to the fore. This is why people keep diaries, in order to refer to the past, as some things get forgotten.

[Jane]

I would have said that Jeremy was put on the spot as regards having been questioned because it's something that he would have least expected,as would anyone if they were innocent of any wrong doing.
The tragedy alone would numb the mind without having to face a barrage of questions that you were ill-prepared for.
I honestly can't believe why and how he was blamed. Sods law--------the last man standing,he'll fit the bill with this list of hearsay and circumstantial evidence.
I'm not convinced otherwise.

But at the time of those phone calls, Lookout, no tragedy had occurred, supposedly. You say that you can't see how he was blamed but he set up that possibility from the off with his story of Neville telling him Sheila had gone mad and got a gun. Once they'd ruled out Sheila it only left Jeremy.

[Jane]

It's a known fact too,that years later you remember,or rather he'd remember snippets of things better than he would have at the time of the tragedy. Certain things in his life will have come to the fore. This is why people keep diaries, in order to refer to the past, as some things get forgotten.

Perfectly true, but it isn't always possible to know whether we have sequential recall.

[Caroline]

Remember one thing,liars have got good memories. Jeremy's memory was somewhat rusty,especially about the times of the calls.
He certainly tried to fathom out the times,but kept on being contradicted by EP on his arrest,which naturally confuses the best of us when someone else butts in with their own interpretations.

I'm looking at this case from a more humane view on how I would have reacted under pressure. I'd have crumbled and told them all to sod off.

Liars don't necessarily have good memories at all, they NEED good memories. Some tell so many lies that they can't remember everything they said and trip themselves up! Remember Jeremy saying to Julie that "It's important to tell the truth as much as possible" - said like a true liar and quite a revealing comment!

[guest154]

Liars don't necessarily have good memories at all, they NEED good memories. Some tell so many lies that they can't remember everything they said and trip themselves up! Remember Jeremy saying to Julie that "It's important to tell the truth as much as possible" - said like a true liar and quite a revealing comment!

They way I see it is that Jeremy at times told different lies to different people. He told stories suited to the police according to what he thought they would buy and he changed the stories slightly when talking with Colin, or when talking with other relatives to suit the person that he was talking to and what he thought they needed to hear.

[Caroline]

It's a known fact too,that years later you remember,or rather he'd remember snippets of things better than he would have at the time of the tragedy. Certain things in his life will have come to the fore. This is why people keep diaries, in order to refer to the past, as some things get forgotten.

This is a contradiction Lookout;

He remembers things better now than then (on the one hand) but people keep diaries to remember things from the past? If people remember things from the past better NOW, why would anyone need to keep a diary? People don't remember things better years later - memory fades with time which is why the police like to take statements as soon as possible after an incident and they now conduct a 'cognitive' interview with a series of question to help the witness remember things like smells and other sensory information from the event because it aides memory.

[Caroline]

They way I see it is that Jeremy at times told different lies to different people. He told stories suited to the police according to what he thought they would buy and he changed the stories slightly when talking with Colin, or when talking with other relatives to suit the person that he was talking to and what he thought they needed to hear.

I agree. I don't think he can help 'embellishing' and it just makes the lie more obvious.

[Jane]

I agree. I don't think he can help 'embellishing' and it just makes the lie more obvious.

And the belief that he was infallible. He didn't think there would be any cross checking.

[Caroline]

And the belief that he was infallible. He didn't think there would be any cross checking.

Or double crossing 

[Jane]

Or double crossing 

 

[lookout]

Liars don't necessarily have good memories at all, they NEED good memories. Some tell so many lies that they can't remember everything they said and trip themselves up! Remember Jeremy saying to Julie that "It's important to tell the truth as much as possible" - said like a true liar and quite a revealing comment!

I'd imagine that the rules for liars would be to remember the things that matter-------like times,which have to be the most accurate when committing a crime such as murder. This is so you don't get caught by the way.
There are so many other factors too. First and foremost is your alibi. Where was Jeremy's ? He'd have sussed that one first if he'd have done it. Why wait until JM's back in London,or BC has gone to Greece ? I could have arranged things better myself.