Michael Fielder Proven liar

[Caroline]

That is what makes it very hard to believe it was simply made up and coincidence that nude photos actually existed.  This is not something natural to make up and if it had simply been made up from whole cloth then there would have been no evidence at all of such photos existing and no evidence of Jeremy being aware of them even if they did exist.

And no stories about Jeremy and Brett 'giggling like a couple of schoolgirls' about them.

[nugnug]

Oh, by the way, something gringo forgot to mention in his vilification of Michael Fielder (and The Sun); The Sun was NOT the only newspaper to print the madame article about Carmen Proetta but they were the FIRST to admit libel and make payment. The other newspapers who ran similar stories were the Star, Daily Express, Daily Mail, Sunday Mail and Daily Mirror.

I suppose it suits the agenda to miss out such information - but it still doesn't dismiss the fact that Colin corroborated the Sun's story (pieces of eight! pieces of eight!  ).

whats that got to do with anything it was feilder who made it up in the first place they just reprinted his lies.

[Adam]

It's believable that Jeremy would choose The Sun.

He's not going to contact The Times now, is he. Anyway Brett had contacts.

[Adam]

The problem supporters have is they can't just say 'ok, he tried to sell pictures of Sheila to The Sun. That doesn't make him guilty'.

They know it makes him look very very guilty.

[gringo]

Colin said that he KNEW the story was true because Jeremy had described the pictures using the SAME words as Fielder described. Did he drag that out of thin air? Did he imagine being told about the pictures? Two people told the same thing by the same person, two people able to corroborate the same words were used by such person in the description and that one NOW denying there were any pictures.

He's banged to rights because Colin Supports what Fielder wrote!!

   We know that the allegation is that Jeremy used the same words to describe the pictures to Fielder as he had to Colin. This proves nothing at all though. Colin himself uses the same words to describe the pictures that he took possession of from jeremy in his statement of 24th September: "I think I would describe these slides as "soft pornography" as they were quite explicit in detail"
   Collins, Mugford, EP... lots of people would have or could have found out about the existence of the photos. They were not the best kept secret were they?
   The Sun and Fielder would not have had to rely on Bamber as the source for the existence of these photos and the description used by Fielder was also the same as Colin described them himself.
   Fielder has previously been shown to have reported that an innocent witness to a shooting was an ex prostitute who ran an escort agency and was married to a drug peddler. All of this was lies in order to discredit an inconvenient witness on behalf of the MOD and police. Or as Adam would put it "the editor will have made sure the story was watertight".
   He has been shown to be a lying propagandist for vested interests but you cling to the belief that perhaps he did some proper reporting on his weekends off

[Stephanie]

   We know that the allegation is that Jeremy used the same words to describe the pictures to Fielder as he had to Colin. This proves nothing at all though. Colin himself uses the same words to describe the pictures that he took possession of from jeremy in his statement of 24th September: "I think I would describe these slides as "soft pornography" as they were quite explicit in detail"
   Collins, Mugford, EP... lots of people would have or could have found out about the existence of the photos. They were not the best kept secret were they? The relatives were
   The Sun and Fielder would not have had to rely on Bamber as the source for the existence of these photos and the description used by Fielder was also the same as Colin described them himself.
   Fielder has previously been shown to have reported that an innocent witness to a shooting was an ex prostitute who ran an escort agency and was married to a drug peddler. All of this was lies in order to discredit an inconvenient witness on behalf of the MOD and police. Or as Adam would put it "the editor will have made sure the story was watertight".
   He has been shown to be a lying propagandist for vested interests but you cling to the belief that perhaps he did some proper reporting on his weekends off

Do you not think what you've written here is propaganda?

[gringo]

Do you not think what you've written here is propaganda?

  No

[Stephanie]

  No

Then clearly you do not understand it's meaning.

[maggie]

No I don't. What are you questioning? Colin?
It has nothing to do with the paper. Colin backs the story up. Simply not believing the story because of the sun ignores what Colin wrote in his book, so it is biased.

I didn't mention anything about being in denial, but if the shoe fits, Maggie.

But supporters DO peddle myths, they post things that aren't true- because they are biased .

I have never said I don't believe Colin, I admit I am totally biased against the Sun with very good reason imo.  My argument with Adam is not whether Colin is lying but the fact that Adam refuses to admit the Sun has lied and deceived and behaved appallingly badly on other occasions so it is a false argument he is making, and note I said HE is making.
As for me being in denial, why ever should I be?  What difference does it make to me if JB is guilty?  What does matter to me is that he may be innocent and if there is the slightest chance of that it is a cause for concern imo.

[nugnug]

   We know that the allegation is that Jeremy used the same words to describe the pictures to Fielder as he had to Colin. This proves nothing at all though. Colin himself uses the same words to describe the pictures that he took possession of from jeremy in his statement of 24th September: "I think I would describe these slides as "soft pornography" as they were quite explicit in detail"
   Collins, Mugford, EP... lots of people would have or could have found out about the existence of the photos. They were not the best kept secret were they?
   The Sun and Fielder would not have had to rely on Bamber as the source for the existence of these photos and the description used by Fielder was also the same as Colin described them himself.
   Fielder has previously been shown to have reported that an innocent witness to a shooting was an ex prostitute who ran an escort agency and was married to a drug peddler. All of this was lies in order to discredit an inconvenient witness on behalf of the MOD and police. Or as Adam would put it "the editor will have made sure the story was watertight".
   He has been shown to be a lying propagandist for vested interests but you cling to the belief that perhaps he did some proper reporting on his weekends off

colins statements probely the best thing to go on as he made that while the events were still fresh in his mind.

[Adam]

I have never said I don't believe Colin, I admit I am totally biased against the Sun with very good reason imo.  My argument with Adam is not whether Colin is lying but the fact that Adam refuses to admit the Sun has lied and deceived and behaved appallingly badly on other occasions so it is a false argument he is making, and note I said HE is making.
As for me being in denial, why ever should I be?  What difference does it make to me if JB is guilty?  What does matter to me is that he may be innocent and if there is the slightest chance of that it is a cause for concern imo.

We are not arguing. You just keep mentioning Hillsborough.

The Sun have got it wrong before. So have other papers.

There have been corrupt police before.

Julie committed minor cheque book fraud with Susan Battersby. A year before the massacre.

Relatives have been scheming before where money is involved.

Does that mean any of them or all of lied in this case ? No.

[nugnug]

no but it makes it a hell of a lot more likely.

[maggie]

We are not arguing. You just keep mentioning Hillsborough.

The Sun have got it wrong before. So have other papers.

There have been corrupt police before.

Julie committed minor cheque book fraud with Susan Battersby. A year before the massacre.

Relatives have been scheming before where money is involved.

Does that mean any of them or all of lied in this case ? No.

OK we aren't arguing, I have given up anyway as I am flogging a dead horse, you are never going to acknowledge my point. 

[Adam]

no but it makes it a hell of a lot more likely.

There is no proof.

All supporters can do is claim the evidence is wrong and mention previous cases.

[maggie]

Colin's claim that Jeremy used the same words to describe the pictures of Sheila to him that Fielder attributed to Bamber proves nothing at all. If it were the case that this proved the story then Colin's statement of 11th September by the same logic would prove some sort of manipulation on the part of EP.
   From his statement of 11th September:
     "During the following Friday Jeremy and Julie came to stay at my address for the weekend, they left on the Sunday.
     On the Friday night a discussion took place at my house between myself, Jeremy, Julie(Jeremy's girlfriend) and Janice Flowers(an ex girlfriend of mine).
     We were trying to put together the facts of what had happened at the farm that night. As a result Jeremy told us that after he'd left during the conversation about fostering the children he'd gone home. He stated that he'd been woken up by the phone at about 3am by Mr. Bamber saying something like "Sheila's gone berserk with a gun"."
     According to EP the "gone berserk with a gun" quote was never made by Jeremy or Neville but in fact was paraphrasing from one officer to another. How coincidental that Jeremy then uses the same words to Colin that West allegedly paraphrased to Bonnet.
     Does that prove anything in your world or does it only apply when it suits your agenda?

Having not read Colin's book, I do find the fact that JB and JM stayed with Colin for the weekend and had a discussion about the events of the night his ex wife and children were murdered quite shocking considering that JM claimed later she knew Jeremy had murdered the two boys but was apparently happy to spend the whole weekend accompanied by Jeremy as a guest of Colin, sharing a bed with the murderer of his children.......  this is hard to believe and inexcusable imo