Had Neville been up all night. If not when did he get out of bed ?

[scipio_usmc]

Shooting June first then Nevill in the same room would generate noise regardless of the moderator being used.  Like I said June sat up, stood up facing her killer.  Nevill surely would have made noise being shot 4 times then making his way downstairs...Are you saying this all happened in silence? I don't think so, but on saying that children sleep through noise, but I doubt their mother did. 

At least 4 shots were to June as she was lying in bed.  2 more were either as she sat up or as she was starting to get out of bed. She wasn't likely standing during any of the shots but rather got up after. The final shot was as she was already on the floor. 

How soundly people sleep varies. We don't have any information about how soundly the boys and Sheila normally slept.  We know Sheila was over sedated though and that she even went to bed early as a result so there was a good chance of her and the boys not waking up.  The walls to the house were thick and neither the boys nor Sheila were in a room adjacent to the master bedroom.

We also know that June was noted as being a light sleeper so is the person who would present the greatest chance of waking up if shots were being fired elsewhere. 

It makes zero sense to shoot the boys and risk waking the parents and if that had happened then the killer would not have had 10 rounds to shoot Nevill and June with the fact a full magazine was used on them in the bedroom indicates they were first.

[Caroline]

At least 4 shots were to June as she was lying in bed.  2 more were either as she sat up or as she was starting to get out of bed. She wasn't likely standing during any of the shots but rather got up after. The final shot was as she was already on the floor. 

How soundly people sleep varies. We don't have any information about how soundly the boys and Sheila normally slept.  We know Sheila was over sedated though and that she even went to bed early as a result so there was a good chance of her and the boys not waking up.  The walls to the house were thick and neither the boys nor Sheila were in a room adjacent to the master bedroom.

We also know that June was noted as being a light sleeper so is the person who would present the greatest chance of waking up if shots were being fired elsewhere. 

It makes zero sense to shoot the boys and risk waking the parents and if that had happened then the killer would not have had 10 rounds to shoot Nevill and June with the fact a full magazine was used on them in the bedroom indicates they were first.

Exactly.

[susan]

Exactly.

Caroline

I think the wee twins were shot last. 

[Caroline]

Caroline

I think the wee twins were shot last.

Either last of just before Sheila.

[Patti]

At least 4 shots were to June as she was lying in bed.  2 more were either as she sat up or as she was starting to get out of bed. She wasn't likely standing during any of the shots but rather got up after. The final shot was as she was already on the floor. 

How soundly people sleep varies. We don't have any information about how soundly the boys and Sheila normally slept.  We know Sheila was over sedated though and that she even went to bed early as a result so there was a good chance of her and the boys not waking up.  The walls to the house were thick and neither the boys nor Sheila were in a room adjacent to the master bedroom.

We also know that June was noted as being a light sleeper so is the person who would present the greatest chance of waking up if shots were being fired elsewhere. 

It makes zero sense to shoot the boys and risk waking the parents and if that had happened then the killer would not have had 10 rounds to shoot Nevill and June with the fact a full magazine was used on them in the bedroom indicates they were first.

Do we know that Sheila was over sedated?

If the walls were thick and I believe they were, then any shooting upstairs would not have been heard from downstairs or even from the outside of the building...Is that what you are saying or am I guilty of putting a spin on things....

To be fair none of us know who was shot first or last for that matter.

[Alias]

Do we know that Sheila was over sedated?

If the walls were thick and I believe they were, then any shooting upstairs would not have been heard from downstairs or even from the outside of the building...Is that what you are saying or am I guilty of putting a spin on things....

To be fair none of us know who was shot first or last for that matter.

No, that is taken out of thin air. Besides, looking at her bed, she had not been under the covers - unless Jeremy made her bed after he killed everyone - without shaking the pillow. Looks like she had lain on top pf the bedcover, not been to bed properly.

[lookout]

We'd have heard well before now if any of the deceased had been sedated. N.A.D in bloods.

[scipio_usmc]

No, that is taken out of thin air. Besides, looking at her bed, she had not been under the covers - unless Jeremy made her bed after he killed everyone - without shaking the pillow. Looks like she had lain on top pf the bedcover, not been to bed properly.

Hardly taken out of thin air Ferguson said Haldol is a major tranquilizer and ALWAYS has tranquilizing effects as a side effect. He described some of the effects of oversedation and then diagnosed her as having been oversedated based on the observations of Freddie, Colin and others who said that after she was put on Haldol she had problems speaking and appeared vacant and would constantly be tired, would go to sleep early etc.

[lebaleb]

Fletcher says she was being over medicated though it was he who prescribed the 200mg dose. He also says he did nothing following the request from Dr Angeloglou on July 15th, to reduce the medication although unknown to Fletcher, Dr Angeloglou states that the July 11th dose was halved to 100mg. The next dose was due around the 11th of August.
Fletcher goes on to say that Cannabis and cocaine have no effect on Haloperidcol!

[Alias]

Sheila was at the end of her monthly Haldol shot - which had been halved. Her system would have been used to a much, much higher dose.
It is taken out of thin air to say you know that Sheila was heavily sedated.

[lookout]

Hardly taken out of thin air Ferguson said Haldol is a major tranquilizer and ALWAYS has tranquilizing effects as a side effect. He described some of the effects of oversedation and then diagnosed her as having been oversedated based on the observations of Freddie, Colin and others who said that after she was put on Haldol she had problems speaking and appeared vacant and would constantly be tired, would go to sleep early etc.

Over sedation ? Someone finally admitting that what they gave Sheila was WRONG ?? That she shouldn't have been receiving Haldol at all ? Who said that ? Or who contradicted who ? One doctor reduced the dose at Sheila's request. Another doctor said it shouldn't have been reduced ?

[Alias]

Hardly taken out of thin air Ferguson said Haldol is a major tranquilizer and ALWAYS has tranquilizing effects as a side effect. He described some of the effects of oversedation and then diagnosed her as having been oversedated based on the observations of Freddie, Colin and others who said that after she was put on Haldol she had problems speaking and appeared vacant and would constantly be tired, would go to sleep early etc.

First, where does Dr. F say ALWAYS? I can´t see that.
Btw, he doesn´t even spell the name of the medication right! tsk tsk

"Common side effects of Haldol are nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, dry mouth, nervousness, headache, dizziness, spinning sensation, drowsiness, sleep problems (insomnia), restlessness, anxiety, skin rash, itching, spontaneous eye movements, mood changes, breast enlargement, irregular menstrual periods, loss of interest in sex, blurred vision, difficulty urinating or urinating less than usual, and occasional movement disorders."

http://www.rxlist.com/haldol-side-effects-drug-center.htm

What you claim does not add up.

[scipio_usmc]

Sheila was at the end of her monthly Haldol shot - which had been halved. Her system would have been used to a much, much higher dose.
It is taken out of thin air to say you know that Sheila was heavily sedated.

The shots last 6 weeks, she had her shot 3 weeks earlier the dose in her system was still very potent.  She exhibited the classic signs of being over sedated and even simply walked away from the phone to go to bed without saying goodnight.  Days earlier she left a party early because she was tired and on the drive home from that party and on the drive to WHF she was quiet and "vacant".  You close your eyes to the facts because you don't want to face them- your bias guides you instead of logic but you can't stand it when people point that out.

Her doctor said the description of her behavior her final weeks alive indicated she was over sedated.  That is sufficient basis for me to assert she was and you have zilch to refute it.

[Alias]

The shots last 6 weeks, she had her shot 3 weeks earlier the dose in her system was still very potent.  She exhibited the classic signs of being over sedated and even simply walked away from the phone to go to bed without saying goodnight.  Days earlier she left a party early because she was tired and on the drive home from that party and on the drive to WHF she was quiet and "vacant".  You close your eyes to the facts because you don't want to face them- your bias guides you instead of logic but you can't stand it when people point that out.

Her doctor said the description of her behavior her final weeks alive indicated she was over sedated.  That is sufficient basis for me to assert she was and you have zilch to refute it.

I can´t stand it when people create myths (as you do now) and claim they are facts. You don´t know a thing about what state Sheila was in, you tend to interpret to fit your personal beliefs.

The halving time of Haloperidol is 21 days, so Sheila would have been on 1/4 dose of her original shots of 200mg = nearing the end of the cycle.

Can´t you say anything without getting personal? You are obnoxcious, back on ignore with ya!

[scipio_usmc]

I can´t stand it when people create myths (as you do now) and claim they are facts. You don´t know a thing about what state Sheila was in, you tend to interpret to fit your personal beliefs.

The halving time of Haloperidol is 21 days, so Sheila would have been on 1/4 dose of her original shots of 200mg = nearing the end of the cycle.

Can´t you say anything without getting personal? You are obnoxcious, back on ignore with ya!

You make it personal not me. You are a hypocrite who constantly projects her own flaws onto others.

You create myth after myth by posting things not supported by any evidence or outright refuted by evidence thus ignoring the evidence- from your myth that Jeremy could not fit through the kitchen window though he stated he had climbed through it, to your myth that Sheila complained about insomnia though she complained about being constantly tired, to this myth about how her medication was ending its effectiveness and ignoring Ferguson's diagnosis that she was over sedated.

You ignore studies which demonstrated greater than 100MG of Haldol offers no medical benefits so the manufacturer stopped making injections in doses greater than 100MG and make the totally unsupportable claim that because she was dropped down to only 100MG from 200MG it means the medication would likely not work. You have no medical support for such at all it is simply what you choose to believe so you can pretend that Sheila went crazy so you can justify your position of Jeremy being innocent.

You claimed I made it up from thin air that Sheila was over sedated though I posted evidence Ferguson assessed such.  Instead of admitting you were wrong you double down and go on the offensive simultaneously playing the victim of personal attacks.  Why bother with such drama?  The evidence is not on your side and drama can't help somehow change that.  Each shot last 6 weeks.  3 weeks passed from the date she got the shot- she was not on the last leg of it working.