The Myths of Circumstantial Evidence

[Stephanie]

I haven't read that statement before but sometimes it's the little things that stick out.

I re visited the wallet thread and it's all there Caroline http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5265.msg226185.html#msg226185

In April 2013 SH had the CCRC visit him at Hollesley Bay prison. He was interviewed by two members of the CCRC; one of which was an ex police officer.

He was asked a series of questions related to the Zenith burglary omission and his answers were recorded - word for word.

He telephoned me after the interview and told me it went really well, better than he expected but that he'd made a mistake with regards the movements he gave on the night of the murder and those he recalls JBarker giving. He'd apparently always been of the belief JBarker had given a differing route.

The CCRC presented SH with JBarker's evidence, to which he replied, he had obviously been wrong. This bothered me. He was tried for murder, how do you forget something like this and mis-represent it for over a decade? After re reading the wallet thread, some of the excuses I made for SH have been posted by other forum members. I found myself being taken in by SH's reasoning - even though none of it made any sense. He convinced me he was suffering from a form of PTSD.

It didn't end there. The CCRC made a transcript of SH's interview and Dr Naughton and myself were sent copies. SH had told the CCRC I had learned of the Zenith burglary from an ex boyfriend? (For anyone who may be interested the transcript can be found here; 4th April 2013)  https://therealmrshspoofblog.wordpress.com/2016/03/27/the-burglary-omission-smear-campaign-hindsight/

SH knew exactly where I'd heard about the Zenith burglary. Plus I wasn't in contact with my ex boyfriend! He knew I had received a telephone call from a women in the village of Capel, who had bumped into an ex girlfriend of SH's brother. Who had then became upset and told the women that SH's mother had told her about the stolen items from Zenith and how SH couldn't have murdered because he was elsewhere doing a burglary.

Why did SH give the wrong details to the CCRC? I Wouldn't let this drop. This may seem trivial to some, not unlike the wallet and the information Jeremy Bamber gave to the police about the gun he'd left out in in the kitchen (Among other anomalies) but it was highly relevant.

Why did SH lie about information I gave him? When I pointed this out to him he played it down and told me he SH appeared to be having memory problems.

I made the CCRC aware of this error as did SH.

It's these exact same discrepancies and errors Jeremy Bamber makes that give away his guilt; along with numerous other factors.

[Adam]

Sheila had obviously got hold of the rifle by the time Nevill rang Bamber. After all Nevill said 'Sheila's gone crazy and she's got the gun'.

The only possibility is that Nevill either allowed or didn't see Sheila pick up the rifle.

What Nevill meant by 'gone crazy' strongly suggests Sheila had either started shooting or was threatening to shoot. However no one supported David's suggestion that Nevill rang Bamber after Sheila started shooting the twins. It was much too late by then.

The only other option is Sheila was threatening to shoot people. Nevill believing the best option here was to spend a long time phoning Bamber.

[Stephanie]

Because he was asked about it. 

No he wasn't re- read the statement! How did he know what gun had been used?

He knew because it was HE who had used it!

[Stephanie]

There was indeed and he gave them the list. I believe the whole scene screams STAGED. Did Jeremy mention which phone had been used?

Having re read the thread where you talk about writing to Jeremy to ask him how he knew about the money in Nevil's wallet, it was clear you were having serious doubts. It was also clear some posters, like Martin for example, were going out of their way to derail you? I've experienced similar. What motivates these people and where do they pluck their theories out of the air? I believe a lot of it stems from their own projections.

I don't buy it. There are lots of things I can think of to make excuses for - but not this. I think he let his guard down because it wasn't where he expected it to be. He denied saying it when I asked him but then later described the same event - presumably because he forgot what he had told me previously.

It makes no difference to me if Jeremy is innocent or guilty - I just would like to know the truth! I have argued vehemently for innocence in the past and have always said if I'm wrong I'd admit it. I'm not saying this makes him guilty - just that it has made me question my own stance. Whatever the case maybe, I still think that the case against him was engineered and stand by all I have said re the silencer and the discrepancies within the autopsy evidence!!

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5265.msg226225.html#msg226225

You explained yourself really well and gave reasons why it niggled you so much. I wonder how many other people have had the a similar experience with Jeremy but have chosen to ignore it?

Alias made a very telling comment about how Aunt Agatha said Jeremy lies. But then suggests Aunt Agatha still believes he's innocent?! Why?

Hasn´t Aunt Agatha said about Jeremy that he lies constantly? She still thinks he is innocent, some people are habitual liars, perhaps Jeremy is one of them.

Caroline do you still think the case against Bamber was engineered or are you now having doubts about that also? I ask because as time pasted by following SH confession etc, my theories and beliefs changed.

As I said, if it was all above board and innocent, why dodge the question? He said he thought the answer was 'No or I didn't' - so he remembered the answer but not the question. He had the letter, he could have just gone and read it. Then a few months later while discussing something about AE he described to me the same scene mentioned in AE statement.

He didn't need to take the money then, he had no idea that AE or anyone else would take it but it was the FIRST thing he went looking for when he went back to WHF. He certainly wouldn't have taken the wallet with him - he wouldn't risk being found with it. Also, I'd have thought farm petty cash and wages money would be kept in the office, in the safe.

I'm not saying he's guilty or the fact that he lied about it makes him guilty BUT it's not something I can dismiss out of hand.

I will have to dig out the letter(s) and will type what was actually said. I know that the question I asked was 'How did you know how much money was in your fathers wallet?' and he didn't reply. This of course could have been for a number of reasons so I sent a message using the email service and he did reply to that. He said that he knew I had asked a question but couldn't remember what it was but thought that the answer was 'no or I didn't' and that's as much as he said. However, a few months later he wrote about how AE had pissed him off when he found out that she had taken the wallet and he mentioned searching for it on his return to WHF. This was the last time I heard from him

To me, it was as if he didn't want to answer and he made the excuse that he forgot the question - he remembered the answer (which is odd) but forgot the question?

SH did something very similar to me. I wrote to him at the end of 2012 about a visit he'd had, among other things. I wanted to understand his reasoning's behind having the visit. He came out with various excuses, none of which made any sense. Like you, I wouldn't leave it. The list of anomalies was becoming much greater by this point. It turns out I was getting too close to the truth, so the cycle of idealise, devalue, discard came into play. He devalued me because I'd found out he'd lied about the Zenith burglary.

[Jane]

Having re read the thread where you talk about writing to Jeremy to ask him how he knew about the money in Nevil's wallet, it was clear you were having serious doubts. It was also clear some posters, like Martin for example, were going out of their way to derail you? I've experienced similar. What motivates these people and where do they pluck their theories out of the air? I believe a lot of it stems from their own projections.

You explained yourself really well and gave reasons why it niggled you so much. I wonder how many other people have had the a similar experience with Jeremy but have chosen to ignore it?

Alias made a very telling comment about how Aunt Agatha said Jeremy lies. But then suggests Aunt Agatha still believes he's innocent?! Why?

Caroline do you still think the case against Bamber was engineered or are you now having doubts about that also? I ask because as time pasted by following SH confession etc, my theories and beliefs changed.

The liar who was in my life, when I put it to him that he lied, said, quite simply, "I know". It was no more than acknowledging the fact. No remorse. No sorrow. No regret. Such would have been beyond his capabilities.

[lookout]

Is there a list of these " lies " which Jeremy allegedly told ? I'm talking a LONG list,not just a couple.

[lookout]

I can remember vividly,at the age of about 9/10 telling a lie and I was thrashed unmercifully for doing so.
NEVER told a lie since !

[Caroline]

On the contrary Jane,there are some who wear of being " smothered " and long to find their own ways in life,such as Jeremy did when he set up his own home.
My own brother was treated just the same by our mum,she did everything for him and he felt stifled.Something that mum could never understand " after all she'd done for him,etc etc ",to which I'd told her " serves you right ". Needless to say mum never got on with brother's wife,much the same as June was toward both Colin and JM.
Anyhow,my own personal view of the other spectrum of mothers and sons,I remember talking to a cop a few years ago about " this breed of men ",they either end up gay or criminals.That's my version of " men who live with their mums ". Strange as it may seem,I've been proved right many a time,as when you have the criminal element in some,you'll find that the mother invariably states that " her son wouldn't do anything like that ".I've known a few in my time,and even the police can bear me out on that one too.
Indeed,my brother like Jeremy escaped the apron strings of " mother " and broke away from the fetch me-carry me situation.

He didn't set up his own home, he was happy for someone to be turfed out of a property that his parents owned in order for him to move in. Now, how did he know the rifle was sed in the murders before the raid team entered?

[Stephanie]

The liar who was in my life, when I put it to him that he lied, said, quite simply, "I know". It was no more than acknowledging the fact. No remorse. No sorrow. No regret. Such would have been beyond his capabilities.

They tend to tell lies, with part truths thrown in, don't you think? I experienced the same as you Jane but because he was in prison for murder and his family (and a few others) were feeding into his lies, he chose to redact the 'I know's" and begin the blame game. By this point his behaviours, just like Bambers, had become see through.

[lookout]

Doesn't that sort of thing go on today ? People getting turfed out of their homes ? Unpaid rent,missed mortgage payments,etc etc, ?

I wasn't aware that it was an owned property ?

Oh dear,we are digging deep now has more news come through,or something ?

[Caroline]

Doesn't that sort of thing go on today ? People getting turfed out of their homes ? Unpaid rent,missed mortgage payments,etc etc, ?

I wasn't aware that it was an owned property ?

Oh dear,we are digging deep now has more news come through,or something ?

So you have no answer? Just MORE excuses. 

[Stephanie]

He didn't set up his own home, he was happy for someone to be turfed out of a property that his parents owned in order for him to move in. Now, how did he know the rifle was sed in the murders before the raid team entered?

I ask the same question as you Caroline!

How did Jeremy Bamber know the rifle was used in the murders before the raid team entered?

Along with the question about the amount of money in his fathers wallet and why he went back to WHF to retrieve said wallet and MONEY he couldn't afford to take with him following the murders in case the police found it on him. Huge red flag!!

[Caroline]

Excuse for what ? Answer to what ? I've given you my answer,what more do you want ?

Like I said, just MORE excuses. He listed several guns being left out but seemed to know the rifle he left out was the weapon of choice. People here just amaze me!

[Stephanie]

He listed several guns being left out but seemed to know the rifle he left out was the weapon of choice. People here just amaze me!

I felt exactly the same following SH's confession. But it was quite obvious why people behaved as they did. Just as it is now. For some people, they find it easier to blame others and make excuses rather than questions their own belief systems and actions and admit when they are wrong.

[Caroline]

I felt exactly the same following SH's confession. But it was quite obvious why people behaved as they did. Just as it is now. For some people, they find it easier to blame others and make excuses rather than questions their own belief systems and actions and admit they are wrong.

I can understand people doing that when they are personally involved, but not when they don't know the person from Adam.