The Myths of Circumstantial Evidence

[Steve_uk]

There is a bigger question that should be asked in respect to PC Mercer's statement. At that point, the raid team hadn't gone inside, so how did Jeremy know that the rifle he left out was the murder weapon? He said "I feel bad, I was using THE rifle last night shooting rabbits". Then he also fits in that he had shown her how to use it.

An excellent observation Caroline. There was a whole list of guns to choose from. It also makes me think that the kitchen scene is focussed in Bamber's mind with the staged bullets and telephone off the hook. But why again should he assume that his father telephoned from the kitchen when he hadn't mentioned what telephone he was using either?

[Caroline]

Well done you!!

It needs a new thread all of it's own!

And maybe it's time someone like you went to the press to put an end to this farce! These facts need highlighting to Jeremy Bambers new victims imo.

I haven't read that statement before but sometimes it's the little things that stick out.

[Caroline]

An excellent observation Caroline. There was a whole list of guns to choose from. It also makes me think that the kitchen scene is focussed in Bamber's mind with the staged bullets and telephone off the hook. But why again should he assume that his father telephoned from the kitchen when he hadn't mentioned what telephone he was using either?

There was indeed and he gave them the list. I believe the whole scene screams STAGED. Did Jeremy mention which phone had been used?

[Steve_uk]

There was indeed and he gave them the list. I believe the whole scene screams STAGED. Did Jeremy mention which phone had been used?

I'm quite sure he didn't. The Raid Team were meant to focus on the kitchen.

[Stephanie]

Jeremy does express regret/guilt of leaving the rifle out - Below is PC Mercer (the police dog handlers) account of the 7th of August.

You see David you missed it because you remain stuck and focused on your own theories and bias and are too quick to dismiss evidence that renders your arguments weak.

[Stephanie]

An excellent observation Caroline. There was a whole list of guns to choose from. It also makes me think that the kitchen scene is focussed in Bamber's mind with the staged bullets and telephone off the hook. But why again should he assume that his father telephoned from the kitchen when he hadn't mentioned what telephone he was using either?

Another great point!

What many supporters do is focus on the stories told by others since the conviction as opposed to sticking to the facts which are the original case files. I know, because I once did it myself. I believed in the new fibre experts. I believed in the many professionals who were publicly supporting his innocence.. I failed to question their motives and their bias.

So as to not go off topic, I'm going to post a couple of interesting facts on the SH thread which may be of assistance to Bambers guilt?

[David1819]

There is a bigger question that should be asked in respect to PC Mercer's statement. At that point, the raid team hadn't gone inside, so how did Jeremy know that the rifle he left out was the murder weapon? He said "I feel bad, I was using THE rifle last night shooting rabbits". Then he also fits in that he had shown her how to use it.

Because he was asked about it. 

[lookout]

How did he know it was the murder weapon ?
Because he knew he was" probably" the last one to have used it and at the time of his leaving for home,it was assumed as the only one which had been visible at that time.

What kind of a miraculous breakthrough was everyone trying to create ?
It still doesn't answer the question-----Did Neville put the " guns " away before he retired for bed ? I say " guns " because a shotgun was found by AE in the upstairs office,was it ? With Sheila's prints on it ?

It's a bit late in the day to be fishing for clues now don't you think ? 31 years on ? Shades of RWB 

[Jane]

The above quote is taken from that first fateful day at Bourtree Cottage with the aftermath of five slain fresh in people's minds. It smacks of an attempt at exculpation whilst still playing the victim and to my knowledge has never been repeated since.

It sounds like something he'd just remembered he ought to be feeling so he threw it in whilst it was fresh in his memory in case he forgot.

[Jane]

How did he know it was the murder weapon ?
Because he knew he was" probably" the last one to have used it and at the time of his leaving for home,it was assumed as the only one which had been visible at that time.

What kind of a miraculous breakthrough was everyone trying to create ?
It still doesn't answer the question-----Did Neville put the " guns " away before he retired for bed ? I say " guns " because a shotgun was found by AE in the upstairs office,was it ? With Sheila's prints on it ?

It's a bit late in the day to be fishing for clues now don't you think ? 31 years on ? Shades of RWB 

Lookout, you spent last night creating a Jeremy who had grown up never having to take responsibility for his own actions. We had June baking his favourite cakes and still wiping his bottom whilst Nevill did most of the hard work that Jeremy should have been doing AND put his guns away after he'd used them. This all went to the creation of an individual who, when told that said gun had been responsible for the deaths of his family, basically shrugged it off with "I didn't know what was going to happen, did I?" Perhaps you should read up on the type of adult who can develop from a child who's never had to take responsibility for their actions. They go through life blaming others/getting others to do it for them....................just as Jeremy has done

[lookout]

Lookout, you spent last night creating a Jeremy who had grown up never having to take responsibility for his own actions. We had June baking his favourite cakes and still wiping his bottom whilst Nevill did most of the hard work that Jeremy should have been doing AND put his guns away after he'd used them. This all went to the creation of an individual who, when told that said gun had been responsible for the deaths of his family, basically shrugged it off with "I didn't know what was going to happen, did I?" Perhaps you should read up on the type of adult who can develop from a child who's never had to take responsibility for their actions. They go through life blaming others/getting others to do it for them....................just as Jeremy has done

On the contrary Jane,there are some who wear of being " smothered " and long to find their own ways in life,such as Jeremy did when he set up his own home.
My own brother was treated just the same by our mum,she did everything for him and he felt stifled.Something that mum could never understand " after all she'd done for him,etc etc ",to which I'd told her " serves you right ". Needless to say mum never got on with brother's wife,much the same as June was toward both Colin and JM.
Anyhow,my own personal view of the other spectrum of mothers and sons,I remember talking to a cop a few years ago about " this breed of men ",they either end up gay or criminals.That's my version of " men who live with their mums ". Strange as it may seem,I've been proved right many a time,as when you have the criminal element in some,you'll find that the mother invariably states that " her son wouldn't do anything like that ".I've known a few in my time,and even the police can bear me out on that one too.
Indeed,my brother like Jeremy escaped the apron strings of " mother " and broke away from the fetch me-carry me situation.

[Jane]

On the contrary Jane,there are some who wear of being " smothered " and long to find their own ways in life,such as Jeremy did when he set up his own home.
My own brother was treated just the same by our mum,she did everything for him and he felt stifled.Something that mum could never understand " after all she'd done for him,etc etc ",to which I'd told her " serves you right ". Needless to say mum never got on with brother's wife,much the same as June was toward both Colin and JM.
Anyhow,my own personal view of the other spectrum of mothers and sons,I remember talking to a cop a few years ago about " this breed of men ",they either end up gay or criminals.That's my version of " men who live with their mums ". Strange as it may seem,I've been proved right many a time,as when you have the criminal element in some,you'll find that the mother invariably states that " her son wouldn't do anything like that ".I've known a few in my time,and even the police can bear me out on that one too.
Indeed,my brother like Jeremy escaped the apron strings of " mother " and broke away from the fetch me-carry me situation.

Lookout, firstly, your family dynamic was VASTLY different from that of the Bambers and that's leaving aside that Sheila and Jeremy were adopted. You paint a very telling  picture of the strong woman you'd later become.I'd also like to point out that in certain mother/son relationships, the mother goes on living with the son YEARS after the son has moved out from the family home. Distance doesn't cut the umbilical cord.

[lookout]

Lookout, firstly, your family dynamic was VASTLY different from that of the Bambers and that's leaving aside that Sheila and Jeremy were adopted. You paint a very telling  picture of the strong woman you'd later become.I'd also like to point out that in certain mother/son relationships, the mother goes on living with the son YEARS after the son has moved out from the family home. Distance doesn't cut the umbilical cord.

" Distance doesn't cut the umbilical cord "--------oh yes it does,in lots of cases. Certainly in my brother's case,probably because of the wife,and also Jeremy because of JM. If Jeremy hadn't worked on the farm,I wonder how often the visits would have been ? JB's desire to work away from the farm at bars and restaurants was a possible clue to him wanting to " break-free ".

[Adam]

How did he know it was the murder weapon ?
Because he knew he was" probably" the last one to have used it and at the time of his leaving for home,it was assumed as the only one which had been visible at that time.

What kind of a miraculous breakthrough was everyone trying to create ?
It still doesn't answer the question-----Did Neville put the " guns " away before he retired for bed ? I say " guns " because a shotgun was found by AE in the upstairs office,was it ? With Sheila's prints on it ?

It's a bit late in the day to be fishing for clues now don't you think ? 31 years on ? Shades of RWB 

It is all very unlikely -

Bamber heard/saw rabbits.

Bamber would bother fully loading a rifle to go out to shoot rabbits he had seen/heard. He said he had gone there for supper after a long day at work. Not to do more work.

The rifle which nearly always had the silencer on, didn't.

Bamber didn't put a silencer on, which it needs for shooting vermin.

Bamber didn't fire any shots at the rabbits. Who must have all disappeared within a few seconds for some reason. Or he saw them but didn't fire any shots.

Bamber, Neville or June did not put the rifle back where it came from - the cupboard.

[Jane]

" Distance doesn't cut the umbilical cord "--------oh yes it does,in lots of cases. Certainly in my brother's case,probably because of the wife,and also Jeremy because of JM. If Jeremy hadn't worked on the farm,I wonder how often the visits would have been ? JB's desire to work away from the farm at bars and restaurants was a possible clue to him wanting to " break-free ".

I should have paragraphed that part of my post and more correctly said that distance doesn't NECESSARILY cut the umbilical cord. One can always find exceptions to rules.

 I wasn't suggesting that Jeremy was tied to June's apron strings.........................however -generally- WANTING to break free doesn't mean it's possible to do, neither, incidentally, does simply not visiting. Mothers can reside in much deeper places.