if the jury had known that julie mugford had committed criminal acts would they

[Adam]

There were only three released WS 's released pre trial as far as I know.

The first on was the day after the massacre. The second one weeks later after Julie approached the police. The third was about the 1984 bank fraud.

All of these WS's may have had rough drafts. Which is common practice. People that write books, send emails or write letters may do several drafts.

It was a murder trial so her WS's were not going to be ready for cross examination at the first attempt.

[ngb1066]

 There must be if 32 statements had been made and only 1 presented at the trial. Where's the rest ?

They were interviews, recorded in writing.

[lookout]

They were interviews, recorded in writing.

Thankyou for that,ngb.

[ngb1066]

Thankyou for that,ngb.

These notes of interview have all been withheld under PII.

 

[lookout]

These notes of interview have all been withheld under PII.

 More's the pity.

[scipio_usmc]

They were interviews, recorded in writing.

That's not what I got from reading the defense fight with the courts and this:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,374.0.html

Only some of the meetings resulted in written statements and those statements were provided to the defense.  They didn't interrogate her and thus didn't keep any transcripts of her interviews like they did with Jeremy.  She was treated like the other witnesses without a formal interrogation where a transcript was made.

What I read suggests the defense wanted all hand written notes any police who spoke to her made so they could see the impressions of the police in response to the interviews but the courts have said there is no duty to turn these over even if they do exist (supposedly a bunch of brianstorming notes made by police that were saved are uncollated and it is not known what exactly in in them beyond they are not materials that were subject to disclosure.



 

[Caroline]

That's not what I got from reading the defense fight with the courts and this:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,374.0.html

Only some of the meetings resulted in written statements and those statements were provided to the defense.  They didn't interrogate her and thus didn't keep any transcripts of her interviews like they did with Jeremy.  She was treated like the other witnesses without a formal interrogation where a transcript was made.

What I read suggests the defense wanted all hand written notes any police who spoke to her made so they could see the impressions of the police in response to the interviews but the courts have said there is no duty to turn these over even if they do exist (supposedly a bunch of brianstorming notes made by police that were saved are uncollated and it is not known what exactly in in them beyond they are not materials that were subject to disclosure.

It looks like most of the meetings were for 'additional information' and not full statements.

[Adam]

32 witness statements.

Surely at the end, there would be just one. Any other rough drafts binned when no longer needed.

Has anyone got a source about these 32 statements ?

[scipio_usmc]

It looks like most of the meetings were for 'additional information' and not full statements.

Here is what I get from the notes by transcribing- 8 statements:

1) Interview day of the murders
2) 1st statement (Aug
3) There while they spoke to Jeremy so spoke to her too (Aug 9)
2nd Statement done over the course of 4 days Sept 7-10
4) day one 2nd statement
5) day two 2nd statement
6) day three 2nd statement
7) day four second statement
Third statement (Sept 23)
9) Fourth statement and fingerprinted (Oct 14)
10) Go to her home to speak to her and her roommates for clarification of issues (Oct 25)
11) Fifth statement (Nov 18)
12) Speak to Richard and clarify things with her (Nov 25)
13) Spoke to her and Susan to clarify things (Dec 2)
14) Spoke to her and Liz to clarify things (Dec 9)
15) Saw her while visiting other witness (Dec 12)
16) Saw her while visiting other witnesses (Dec 13)
17) Reviewed and signed her statements as did her roommates (Dec 17)
18) Speak to her to clarify things (Jan 16)
19) Speak to her to clarify things (Feb 3)
20) Saw her while visiting other witnesses (Feb 17)
21)  Sixth Statement (March 10)
22) Speak to her to clarify things (Apr 15)
23) Speak to her and roommates to clarify things (Apr 23)
24) Seventh statement (May
25) Speak to her to clarify things (May 16)
26) Eighth statement (June 5)
27) Speak to her to clarify things (July 9)
28) Speak to her regarding information requested by Defense (Aug 6)
29) Speak to her regarding information requested by Defense (Aug 20)
30) Speak to her to clarify things while speaking to Richards (Aug 28)
31) Speak to her to clarify things (Sept 10)
32) Speak to her while seeing other witnesses (Sept 15)
33) Discuss trial arrangements (Sept 30)

[guest154]

Here is what I get from the notes by transcribing- 8 statements:

1) Interview day of the murders
2) 1st statement (Aug
3) There while they spoke to Jeremy so spoke to her too (Aug 9)
2nd Statement done over the course of 4 days Sept 7-10
4) day one 2nd statement
5) day two 2nd statement
6) day three 2nd statement
7) day four second statement
Third statement (Sept 23)
9) Fourth statement and fingerprinted (Oct 14)
10) Go to her home to speak to her and her roommates for clarification of issues (Oct 25)
11) Fifth statement (Nov 18)
12) Speak to Richard and clarify things with her (Nov 25)
13) Spoke to her and Susan to clarify things (Dec 2)
14) Spoke to her and Liz to clarify things (Dec 9)
15) Saw her while visiting other witness (Dec 12)
16) Saw her while visiting other witnesses (Dec 13)
17) Reviewed and signed her statements as did her roommates (Dec 17)
18) Speak to her to clarify things (Jan 16)
19) Speak to her to clarify things (Feb 3)
20) Saw her while visiting other witnesses (Feb 17)
21)  Sixth Statement (March 10)
22) Speak to her to clarify things (Apr 15)
23) Speak to her and roommates to clarify things (Apr 23)
24) Seventh statement (May
25) Speak to her to clarify things (May 16)
26) Eighth statement (June 5)
27) Speak to her to clarify things (July 9)
28) Speak to her regarding information requested by Defense (Aug 6)
29) Speak to her regarding information requested by Defense (Aug 20)
30) Speak to her to clarify things while speaking to Richards (Aug 28)
31) Speak to her to clarify things (Sept 10)
32) Speak to her while seeing other witnesses (Sept 15)
33) Discuss trial arrangements (Sept 30)

Scip, that's a great list and actually really helpful. Also shows that there is nothing strange about the situation at all.

[Caroline]

Here is what I get from the notes by transcribing- 8 statements:

1) Interview day of the murders
2) 1st statement (Aug
3) There while they spoke to Jeremy so spoke to her too (Aug 9)
2nd Statement done over the course of 4 days Sept 7-10
4) day one 2nd statement
5) day two 2nd statement
6) day three 2nd statement
7) day four second statement
Third statement (Sept 23)
9) Fourth statement and fingerprinted (Oct 14)
10) Go to her home to speak to her and her roommates for clarification of issues (Oct 25)
11) Fifth statement (Nov 18)
12) Speak to Richard and clarify things with her (Nov 25)
13) Spoke to her and Susan to clarify things (Dec 2)
14) Spoke to her and Liz to clarify things (Dec 9)
15) Saw her while visiting other witness (Dec 12)
16) Saw her while visiting other witnesses (Dec 13)
17) Reviewed and signed her statements as did her roommates (Dec 17)
18) Speak to her to clarify things (Jan 16)
19) Speak to her to clarify things (Feb 3)
20) Saw her while visiting other witnesses (Feb 17)
21)  Sixth Statement (March 10)
22) Speak to her to clarify things (Apr 15)
23) Speak to her and roommates to clarify things (Apr 23)
24) Seventh statement (May
25) Speak to her to clarify things (May 16)
26) Eighth statement (June 5)
27) Speak to her to clarify things (July 9)
28) Speak to her regarding information requested by Defense (Aug 6)
29) Speak to her regarding information requested by Defense (Aug 20)
30) Speak to her to clarify things while speaking to Richards (Aug 28)
31) Speak to her to clarify things (Sept 10)
32) Speak to her while seeing other witnesses (Sept 15)
33) Discuss trial arrangements (Sept 30)

That's pretty much how I read it.

[scipio_usmc]

Scip, that's a great list and actually really helpful. Also shows that there is nothing strange about the situation at all.

All I did was reduce the handwriting to print to make it easier to read, actually numbered the instances which total 33 not 32 and numbered the statements- they simply stated "took further statement".  In counting them up I get 8.

[mike tesko]

Bambers convictions are unsafe, because the victims were shot and killed by use of a different type of ELEY .22LR ammunition, than that purchased by RAlph Bamber in November 1984, and readily available at the scene (ELEY .22 Subsonic ammunition). The prosecutions case against Bamber is exposed as a dodgy frame up...

[mike tesko]

At trial, Judge Drake in his summing up speech to the jury, told them that they should not concern themselves with involvement of any third party in the killings, but that they had to decide who the killer was between Sheila, or Jeremy. He reminded them that the killer could only be either one of them. But this recent discovery regarding use of a different type of ELEY .22LR ammunition in the shootings, significantly contradict those directions given to the jury by the judge. We can now for the very first time say with absolute confidence that there was a third party involvement in the shootings, a fact which serves to affect the aforementioned direction given to the jury at such a critical point in the trial...

[Caroline]

All I did was reduce the handwriting to print to make it easier to read, actually numbered the instances which total 33 not 32 and numbered the statements- they simply stated "took further statement".  In counting them up I get 8.

I didn't count the number of separate statements but the document is pretty clear - most of the instances are just for additional info.