A paradox - with rifle at bedroom window, one bullet case too many linked to She

[David1819]

Aside from a wide variety of .22 caliber centerfire cartridges such as:

.22 Winchester
.22 Winchester Magnum
.22 Hornet

there are several varieties of 22 rimfire:

.22 BB
.22 CB
.22 short
.22 long
.22 extra long
.22 long rifle
.22 Winchester Magnum

There is no such thing as just 22 rimfire. When someone uses the term .22 rimfire they mean .22LR because this is the main 22 rimfire round employed today.  .22BB and .22CB are used in special guns that are employed in the same role as airguns.  .22 short, 22 long and .22 extra long are all antiquated rounds. .22 short was altered to create the .22 long which in turn was altered to create the .22LR and at that point they had a winner. .22 LR is the .22 rimfire round that thrived and to this day is still popular.  When people say 22 rimfire they mean 22LR.  The 22 magnum bullet is the same as the 22LR but the case is larger. it thus has much higher velocity and thus does more damage at a longer distance. It is not nearly as popular as the 22LR though.

The only bullet that didn't have its largest fragment recovered was one of the bullets that killed Nicholas.  All the rest were recovered and were determined to be unjacketed 22LR.

The Tactical Firearms Police had 2 rifles in its arsenal:

Parker Hale M82 Sniper rifle (7.62mm) and the Ruger Mini-14. The Sniper rifle was rarely used and when it was used it was employed for long range sniping not in close quarters.  So for sure the officers were either armed with Mini-14 or 9mm handguns.  They only used shotguns against animals.

The rounds acquired for police use in the Mini-14 are not only larger than the 22LR (62 grain SS109 NATO) they are jacketed.  If any such bullets had been fired into the victims the ME would have found the jackets. Moreover, the ME would have recognized the substantial difference in the injuries because the larger size combined with much greater velocity results in much more massive injury.  You play worthless games, your claims are easy to debunk.
 

according to an open university document

In the 1980s additional weapons were issued to the Firearms Support Team: Browning 9mm self loading pistol (SLP); Ruger mini 14 rifles, 223 calibre folding stock and long weapons; Remington 12 bore shotgun, for rifle slug for animal destruction and CS gas cartridges with a Hatton round solid slug to take off door hinges; The Webley was also used for baton rounds. 7.62 Sniper rifle was continued, but very unlikely to be deployed.

[scipio_usmc]

according to an open university document

In the 1980s additional weapons were issued to the Firearms Support Team: Browning 9mm self loading pistol (SLP); Ruger mini 14 rifles, 223 calibre folding stock and long weapons; Remington 12 bore shotgun, for rifle slug for animal destruction and CS gas cartridges with a Hatton round solid slug to take off door hinges; The Webley was also used for baton rounds. 7.62 Sniper rifle was continued, but very unlikely to be deployed.

It's wrong. Many erroneously think that .223 Remington and 5.56mm NATO are the same and that the latter is the metric designation simply. This is wrong 5.56mm is slightly larger and not all weapons chambered for .223 can handle 5.56mm rounds. The British police used 5.56mm ammunition not .223 Remington though in theory they could have fired .223 Remington if they wanted to.  They used military ammo though and their weapons were military versions of the Mini-14, they could fire full auto.   Note that some UK units also used the Mini-30 which was the same weapon essentially but chambered in 7.62mm.  Various 5.56mm weapons replaced the Mini-14s.

The FN Browning Hi Power was indeed the initial 9mm pistol issued but they were soon replaced by Glocks and in some areas the Ruger 85. Glocks are still the primary pistol today.   




 

[mike tesko]

Aside from a wide variety of .22 caliber centerfire cartridges such as:

.22 Winchester
.22 Winchester Magnum
.22 Hornet

there are several varieties of 22 rimfire:

.22 BB
.22 CB
.22 short
.22 long
.22 extra long
.22 long rifle
.22 Winchester Magnum

There is no such thing as just 22 rimfire. When someone uses the term .22 rimfire they mean .22LR because this is the main 22 rimfire round employed today.  .22BB and .22CB are used in special guns that are employed in the same role as airguns.  .22 short, 22 long and .22 extra long are all antiquated rounds. .22 short was altered to create the .22 long which in turn was altered to create the .22LR and at that point they had a winner. .22 LR is the .22 rimfire round that thrived and to this day is still popular.  When people say 22 rimfire they mean 22LR.  The 22 magnum bullet is the same as the 22LR but the case is larger. it thus has much higher velocity and thus does more damage at a longer distance. It is not nearly as popular as the 22LR though.

The only bullet that didn't have its largest fragment recovered was one of the bullets that killed Nicholas.  All the rest were recovered and were determined to be unjacketed 22LR.

The Tactical Firearms Police had 2 rifles in its arsenal:

Parker Hale M82 Sniper rifle (7.62mm) and the Ruger Mini-14. The Sniper rifle was rarely used and when it was used it was employed for long range sniping not in close quarters.  So for sure the officers were either armed with Mini-14 or 9mm handguns.  They only used shotguns against animals.

The rounds acquired for police use in the Mini-14 are not only larger than the 22LR (62 grain SS109 NATO) they are jacketed.  If any such bullets had been fired into the victims the ME would have found the jackets. Moreover, the ME would have recognized the substantial difference in the injuries because the larger size combined with much greater velocity results in much more massive injury.  You play worthless games, your claims are easy to debunk.
 

The problem for the police who have tampered with the batch of crime scene and bodily ammunition, is that they have sought to pair off the 25 bullets, (which belonged to batches of different types of ammunition), with the same type of .22 LR rimfire (Eley) cartridge cases, to all 25 of the bullets...

It is plain to see, how the police pulled off this deception, in order to make this into a one gun, one batch of ammunition crime, which it most definitely was not, because to my knowledge at least three different types of ammunition was used, and at least three different weapons. Police have test fired the anshuzt rifle using control ammunition after the bodies of the five victims have been disposed of by way of cremation and burial. The .22LR cartridge cases from this unreported test fire were used in the substitution process, and from my understanding 14 of the original cartridge cases are still retained at Huntingdon Lab' under exhibit reference MDF/100. These 14 cartridge cases which have been extracted from the original batch of crime scene ammunition, are understood to have been manufactured by Remington and Winchester, not Eley...

Now, you don't have to be a genious to be able to work out what has been done, so as to present the argument that this was a one gun crime, using bullets from one batch or type of ammunition which was manufactured by Eley - all you have to do, and in fact all that was done, was that any cartridge cases recovered from the scene which were non Eley .22 LR, were removed and subsequently replaced by the same number of test fired Eley .22 LR cartridge cases, and the net result is that you end up with 25 bullets which came from a variety of different type of .22 and .223 ammunition manufactured by different Companies (Eley, Remington, Winchester, and police ammo'), and 25 cartridge cases made solely by Eley (.22 LR cartridge cases), and then the matter can be and was presented as a one gun crime, using 25 rounds from the same batch of Eley type ammunition, without any evidence presented at all, to link the 25 bullets to any of the 25 cartridge cases...

This was how the ballistics evidence was tampered with, to the detriment of Jeremy Bamber..,

[mike tesko]

To my knowledge, nothing has been done by any ballistic expert, involved in this case, to produce any evidence which prevents that which I say did happen, and has happened, from happening. In fact, what we have found out through due  diligence and perseverance, is that police and their ballistic expert, Malcolm Fletcher, carried out what I shall term as 'THE UNREPORTED TEST FIRE', using the anshutz rifle, 14 x Eley .22 LR control rounds, and these cartridge cases were used in a substitution process, where 14 of the original cartridge cases recovered from the scene (non Eley types) were extracted in order to introduce 14 Eley .22 LR cartridge cases, so that the revised batch of crime scene ammunitions contained 25 x Eley .22 LR cartridge cases. The original 14 non Eley type cartridge cases being retained by the Lab' at Huntingdon under an exhibit reference of MDF/100...

[mike tesko]

To my knowledge, nothing has been done by any ballistic expert, involved in this case, to produce any evidence which prevents that which I say did happen, and has happened, from happening. In fact, what we have found out through due  diligence and perseverance, is that police and their ballistic expert, Malcolm Fletcher, carried out what I shall term as 'THE UNREPORTED TEST FIRE', using the anshutz rifle, 14 x Eley .22 LR control rounds, and these cartridge cases were used in a substitution process, where 14 of the original cartridge cases recovered from the scene (non Eley types) were extracted in order to introduce 14 Eley .22 LR cartridge cases, so that the revised batch of crime scene ammunitions contained 25 x Eley .22 LR cartridge cases. The original 14 non Eley type cartridge cases being retained by the Lab' at Huntingdon under an exhibit reference of MDF/100...

It was only by chance that we found out about the existence of exhibit, MDF/100 (the 14 non Eley cartridge cases), through Ballistic expert, Henshaws, visit to Birdwell Armoury (Barnsley, South Yorkshire)...

Henshaw, confirmed to us that these 14 cartridge cases were still retained in storage at Huntingdon, and he volunteered to examine them and produce a report about them for a fee (which Jeremy wasn't prepared to pay, at that time)...

[mike tesko]

Both Jeremy and myself became very interested in these 14 non Eley type cartridge cases (MDF/100), and a cloth pull through (MDF/1), because we believed, and I still do, that originally the 14 non Eley cartridge cases had the exhibit reference MDF/1, not MDF/100. We suspected that Fletcher introduced the cloth pull through of the anshurz rifle barrel, as an afterthought, to support the theory that the sound moderator had been fitted to the gun barrel at the time of the shootings. What we think he had done, was to vacate exhibit MDF/1 (in the form of the 14 non Eley cartridge cases) and slip in the cloth pull of the gun barrel, into that vacated exhibit reference slot, therefore becoming MDF/1, with the resultant 14 non Eley cartridge cases, being now referred to as exhibit MDF/100. What Fletcher did was simple to change the exhibit reference of the 14 non Eley cartridge cases, from MDF/1 to MDF/100, simply by adding two '00's'. But Fletcher made a basic error of leaving the original Lab' item reference number given to the cloth pull through at the Lab' when it became an exhibit in the case. The number given to the cloth pull through MDF/1, could not have come into existence until after the beginning of October 1985, by reference to other exhibits received at the lab at the beginning of October 1985, which were allocated blower lab' reference numbers than the corresponding one issued against the cloth pull through test. We were unable to find any exhibits bearing exhibit references. MDF/2 to MDF/99, which led us to conclude that Fletcher had slipped in the cloth pull through evidence, at the cost of removing the 14 non Eley cartridge cases, and then altering the original exhibit reference of MDF/1 to MDF/100, simply by adding to it two zero's...

I am still trying to find out the lab' item number given to the 14 non Eley cartridge cases when they were originally MDF/1...

[mike tesko]

If anyone can identify to me what exhibits had the identifying marks, of MDF/2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98 and 99, I would be ever so grateful. Also, what lab' item defence numbers were given to each of the missing 98 items...

[mike tesko]

If anyone can identify to me what exhibits had the identifying marks, of MDF/2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98 and 99, I would be ever so grateful. Also, what lab' item defence numbers were given to each of the missing 98 items...

I am left in no doubt whatsoever, that these missing 98 exhibits have an important role to play in helping us to prove that the integrity of the cloth pull through evidence (MDF/1) is no linger tenable, but that it was carried out after two lots of test fire of the anshutz rifle had been fired using control bullets...

[mike tesko]

We have accounted for almost all the lab' item numbers given to exhibits in this case, between the 9th August 1985, when the first items were received at the lab' until any further submissions leading up to the trial in October 1986, and can find no break in the sequence of issued by way of the lab' item number system, where each of the missing 98 Exhibits could have been slipped into, or removed..,

[mike tesko]

It is therefore, essential in my view to discover the lab' item number originally issued to the 14 non Eley cartridge cases, (MDF/1 - MDF/100) because once we find that out, the other missing 98 MDF exhibits should in theory have consecutively issued lab' item numbers allocated to them, either with a greater or as the case may be, a lower lab' item number that the one issued to the 14 non Eley cartridge cases. Depending upon whether the lab' item numbers to these missing 97 exhibits is higher or lower than that issued to the 14 non Eley cartridge cases, will open up a can of worms which should have a devastating impact upon the ballistics evidence in this matter, for reasons which will become clear in due course.,.

[scipio_usmc]

To my knowledge, nothing has been done by any ballistic expert, involved in this case, to produce any evidence which prevents that which I say did happen, and has happened, from happening. In fact, what we have found out through due  diligence and perseverance, is that police and their ballistic expert, Malcolm Fletcher, carried out what I shall term as 'THE UNREPORTED TEST FIRE', using the anshutz rifle, 14 x Eley .22 LR control rounds, and these cartridge cases were used in a substitution process, where 14 of the original cartridge cases recovered from the scene (non Eley types) were extracted in order to introduce 14 Eley .22 LR cartridge cases, so that the revised batch of crime scene ammunitions contained 25 x Eley .22 LR cartridge cases. The original 14 non Eley type cartridge cases being retained by the Lab' at Huntingdon under an exhibit reference of MDF/100...

There is no evidence of any bullets or casings being swapped. There is no evidence of any non-Eley casings.  You made the claim up like so many of your claims are simply made up.  You take made up nonsense that can't be used in court to try to free Jeremy because it is made up nonsense and try to fool us with such nonsense.  By now you should realize no one is falling for this crap so you are wasting your time.

Making up that there were Winchester and Remington 22LR casings is particularly stupid you didn't even bother to make up it was the same ammunition owned by AP though you keep claiming his rifle was used. 

Making things up just harms your credibility it doesn't help you in any way. 

[mike tesko]

There is no evidence of any bullets or casings being swapped. There is no evidence of any non-Eley casings.  You made the claim up like so many of your claims are simply made up.  You take made up nonsense that can't be used in court to try to free Jeremy because it is made up nonsense and try to fool us with such nonsense.  By now you should realize no one is falling for this crap so you are wasting your time.

Making up that there were Winchester and Remington 22LR casings is particularly stupid you didn't even bother to make up it was the same ammunition owned by AP though you keep claiming his rifle was used. 

Making things up just harms your credibility it doesn't help you in any way.

I don't have to make anything up, the police and their ballistic expert Fletcher made it up, I am just drawing attention to what they did, and have done. Just to recap, Fletcher identified bullets that he examined using his expertise as a firearms expert, as .22LR bullets, a .22 bullet, and a bullet. In the terms of his own description of all the bullets, he does not lay claim to the notion that all of these various type of bullet originated from the same batch, simply by reference to any one common  feature that he could find on any one of the 25 bullets in question - and he does not say anywhere that all the 25 x .22 bullets were all the same type of bullet, or as the case may be, the same piece of the same sort of .22 ammunition. He clearly describes some as being .22 LR bullets, others as .22 bullets, and at least one more simply as a bullet. You don't have the expertise or the authority to change the type of bullets which Fletcher examined and described. They were different bullets alright, and some belonged to the Bambers, others belonged to AP, and at least one other bullet, belonged to the police. All they needed to do, which in fact is what they did, was to substitute (academically) non Eley cartridge cases, with test fired Eley .22 LR cartridge cases, so that they had 25 identical matching cartridge cases, which they would rely on to argue therefore that all the differently described types of .22 ammunition all must have been Eley .22 LR subsinic hollow point ammunition...

They used different .22  LR cartridge cases that were obtained after a test fire of the anshutz rifle and Eley .22LR subsonic hollow point bullets, swapped these for the 14 non Eley cartridge cases in the original batch, and 'hey presto', they had a way to suggest that all 25 bullets fired during the killings hadvall been one type of bullet, not several. But, the closer you look into this matter, you can seen why they have had to tamper with and alter exhibit references of key items in the case, and cover up the fact that there had been an unreported test fire of the anshutz rifle on or before 12th September 1985...

So, get your facts right, when you bad mouth me, you are also bad mouthing the ballistic expert, and his own findings - so, go ahead, make my day, your doing a fine job of destroying the credibility of the prosecutions ballistic expert, all by yourself..,

[mike tesko]

I do not agree with the suggestion that Ralph had been shot four times whilst present in the main bedroom and that one of these bullets ended up in the twins bedroom without penetrating any wall or door. The loose bullet found in the twins bedroom was from an exit wound on one of the children...

[scipio_usmc]

I don't have to make anything up, the police and their ballistic expert Fletcher made it up, I am just drawing attention to what they did, and have done. Just to recap, Fletcher identified bullets that he examined using his expertise as a firearms expert, as .22LR bullets, a .22 bullet, and a bullet. In the terms of his own description of all the bullets, he does not lay claim to the notion that all of these various type of bullet originated from the same batch, simply by reference to any one common  feature that he could find on any one of the 25 bullets in question - and he does not say anywhere that all the 25 x .22 bullets were all the same type of bullet, or as the case may be, the same piece of the same sort of .22 ammunition. He clearly describes some as being .22 LR bullets, others as .22 bullets, and at least one more simply as a bullet. You don't the expertise or the authority to change the type of bullets which Fletcher examined and described. They were different bullets alright, and some belonged to the Banners, others belonged to AP, and at least one other bullet, belonged to the police. All they needed to do, which in fact is what they did, was to substitute (academically) non Eley cartridge cases, with test fired Eley .22 LR cartridge cases, so that they had 25 identical matching cartridge cases, which they would rely on to argue therefore that all the differently described types of .22 ammunition all must have been Elet .22 LR subsinic hollow point ammunition...

They used different .22  LR cartridge cases that were obtained after a test fire of the anshutz rifle and Eley .22LR subsonic hollow point bullets, swapped these for the 14 non Eley cartridge cases in the original batch, and 'hey presto', they had a way to suggest that all 25 bullets fired during the killings hadvall been one type of bullet, not several. But, the closer you look into this matter, you can seen why they have had to tamper with and alter exhibit references of key items in the case, and cover up the fact that there had been an unreported test fire of the anshutz rifle on or before 12th September 1985...

So, get your facts right, when you bad mouth me, you are also bad mouthing the ballistic expert, and his own findings - so, go ahead, make my day, your doing a fine job of destroying the credibility of the prosecutions ballistic expert, all by yourself..,

I have my facts straight- you are making up allegations from thin air that make no sense and have been unable to find any evidence to establish your claims you just made up the claim that 14 casings were Winchester and Remington casings.  Your allegations about casing and bullets being swapped are all entirely made up you have no evidentiary foundation for these claims at all. 

You want to pretend that some of the bullets were not 22LR but rather a different 22 rimfire caliber. No one owned any rifles chambered in other 22 varieties such as 22 Magnum or 22 long.  The other family owned rifle you assert was used was chambered in 22LR like the Anschutz. This weapon was not at WHF during the murders though and even when it had been stored at WHF it had the bolt removed so could not be used anyway.  You ignore this and just make up nonsense about Sheila walking around with 2 rifles and shooting each victim with both rifles- it is absurd. 

The ammunition used by police was vastly larger and of a much different composition than the 22LR rounds, and their carbines fired these bullets at nearly 3 times the velocity.  If Sheila had been shot in the neck by a Mini-14 the bullet would have exited not broken apart and been lodged in her neck.  The bullet removed was nothing at all like a 62 grain 5.56m round which had a steel penetrator surrounded by copper alloy.

It is bad enough your allegations are not supported by any evidence and that you are just making them up but even worse the things you make up are absurd.  At least give us some credit and make up something that makes a lick of sense and could be possible in a theoretical sense. 

Instead you insult our intelligence telling us such things as that Sheila wasn't really dead when Dr Craig declared her dead- he made a mistake- and at that at that point she just had 1 gunshot wound because he noted only 1 wound in his statement though he only noted 1 wound to each victim because he simply was noting 1 to establish his suggestion they appeared to all die by being shot.

You twist and spin beyond all reason and in the process all you do is insult our intelligence.
 

[scipio_usmc]

I do not agree with the suggestion that Ralph had been shot four times whilst present in the main bedroom and that one of these bullets ended up in the twins bedroom without penetrating any wall or door. The loose bullet found in the twins bedroom was from an exit wound on one of the children...

How many times are you going to post the same bogus strawman?

I never suggested a bullet found in the room the boys were in was connected to the shooting of Nevill, you made the claim up.

I have repeatedly noted that DRH/5 is the bullet which grazed Nevill and was found in the master bedroom.

DRH/12 EXITED Daniel and thus was found in the room Daniel was killed in.

You made up the claim that DRH/36 grazed Nevill I never asserted such. 

I have repeatedly posted the wounds of each victim and largest bullet fragment associated with each wound.  I am going to do something different this time I am going to take the wounds as numbered or otherwise identified in the autopsy report and detail the largest bullet fragment associated with each.

Sheila
upper wound (chin) PV/19
lower wound (neck) PV/20

Nevill
1) PV/8 front of right ear/exit left ear but still in the body
2) PV/9 slightly above wound 1
3) PV/3 top of skull
4) PV/4 top of skull
5) PV/10 (lip)         
6) PV/11 (jaw)
7)PV/2  (Shoulder)
8)DRH/5 (Arm/chest Graze wound)

Wounds 1-4 were received in the kitchen, wounds 5-8 in the master bedroom. DRH/5 was recovered in the master bedroom.

June
1) PV/25 between eyes
2) PV/26 above right ear
3) DRH/35a lower neck (bullet exited into pillow)
4) DRH/35b forearm (bullet exited into pillow)
5) PV/24 right upper chest
6) PV/23 lower chest
7) DRH/9 knee (bullet exited into bed)

Daniel

There were 5 entrance wounds, the largest fragment from 4 bullets were recovered from his body, the bulk of the 5th bullet exited his body and was found in the room.  There was insufficient detail in the autopsy report to match the 5 bullet fragments to specific entry wounds. 

PV/34
PV/35
PV/36
PV/29
DRH/36 (bullet exited and landed in bedroom)

Nicholas
Left cheek bone
Left of bridge of the nose
Outer aspect of right eyebrow

Vanezis recovered the largest fragment from 2 of the 3 wounds PV/30 and PV/31 but he didn't detail which entrance wound each bullet fragment was associated with. The third bullet fragmented into small parts in the head and none of the fragments were removed during the autopsy.

---------------------

Lying about what I assert just further diminishes your already lacking credibility.