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[maggie]

It does seem strange that Neville got such a brutal beating and Sheila was not marked.

If Neville was not fighting back effectively, why did Sheila give him such a brutal beating ?

However if Neville was fighting back effectively why didn't Sheila have any injuries ?

By the time Nevill was battered so cruelly he must have been in a very weak state who ever carried it out. imo

[Adam]

The same cannot be said of Bamber.

Bamber was fully clothed and protected. And was not examined for one month.

Neville being downstairs was a major problem for him. Neville was big and strong and still a big threat although injured.

Bamber was already fired up and half way through his 'now or never' moment. He wouldn't hold back in nullifying a fighting back Neville.

[maggie]

The same cannot be said of Bamber.

Bamber was fully clothed and protected. And was not examined for one month.

Neville being downstairs was a major problem for him. Neville was big and strong and still a big threat although injured.

Bamber was already fired up and half way through his 'now or never' moment. He wouldn't hold back in nullifying a fighting back Neville.

For all that Nevill was a much bigger man than Jeremy, Jeremy simply couldn't have been able to beat him that way unless he was collapsed somewhere, most likely in one of the chairs where he was found.

[David1819]

It does seem strange that Neville got such a brutal beating and Sheila was not marked.

If Neville was not fighting back effectively, why did Sheila give him such a brutal beating ?

However if Neville was fighting back effectively why didn't Sheila have any injuries ?

Jeremy was not marked either. I think it's safe to say a brawl never happend as such.

You could argue this. Jeremy shoots Neville 4 times upstairs, twice to the face/jaw and twice to the arms.
Neville runs downstairs trying to escape the house. Jeremy catches up with him and knocks him unconsouse with blows to the face and head with the rifle end, then reloads them finishes him off with 3 shots to the head.

Neville took 5 shots to the face or head so it could appear to be a brutal beating when in fact it's just the sheer Amount of ballistic trauma that has made the blunt force trauma seem more severe than it is.

[maggie]

Jeremy was not marked either. I think it's safe to say a brawl never happend as such.

You could argue this. Jeremy shoots Neville 4 times upstairs, twice to the face/jaw and twice to the arms.
Neville runs downstairs trying to escape the house. Jeremy catches up with him and knocks him unconsouse with blows to the face and head with the rifle end, then reloads them finishes him off with 3 shots to the head.

Neville took 5 shots to the face or head so it could appear to be a brutal beating when in fact it's just the sheer Amount of ballistic trauma that has made the blunt force trauma seem more severe than it is.

I agree with you, the wounds from bullets would have caused a massive amount of bruising to the face.

[Adam]

Jeremy was not marked either. I think it's safe to say a brawl never happend as such.

You could argue this. Jeremy shoots Neville 4 times upstairs, twice to the face/jaw and twice to the arms.
Neville runs downstairs trying to escape the house. Jeremy catches up with him and knocks him unconsouse with blows to the face and head with the rifle end, then reloads them finishes him off with 3 shots to the head.

Neville took 5 shots to the face or head so it could appear to be a brutal beating when in fact it's just the sheer Amount of ballistic trauma that has made the blunt force trauma seem more severe than it is.

I already said Bamber was not marked in post 511. And said why.

Most of the rest of the post I agree with. However if you look at the description of Neville on the 2002 COA judgement, you will see he took a brutal beating.

The state of the kitchen suggests there was a big struggle. The judge said Neville 'put up a tremendous fight for life'.

Bamber would not know how injured and capable Neville still was. So would have attempted to give a beating until Neville was knocked out. This was no time to hold back.  He eventually succeeded.

[Adam]

42. The examination of Nevill Bamber's body also revealed black eyes and a broken nose, linear bruising to the cheeks, lacerations to the head, linear type bruising to the right forearm, bruising to the left wrist and forearm and three circular burn type marks to the back. The linear marks were consistent with Mr Bamber having been struck with a long blunt object, possibly a gun.

[Jan]

42. The examination of Nevill Bamber's body also revealed black eyes and a broken nose, linear bruising to the cheeks, lacerations to the head, linear type bruising to the right forearm, bruising to the left wrist and forearm and three circular burn type marks to the back. The linear marks were consistent with Mr Bamber having been struck with a long blunt object, possibly a gun.

no body was denying that - they were questioning the sequence of events

[maggie]

42. The examination of Nevill Bamber's body also revealed black eyes and a broken nose, linear bruising to the cheeks, lacerations to the head, linear type bruising to the right forearm, bruising to the left wrist and forearm and three circular burn type marks to the back. The linear marks were consistent with Mr Bamber having been struck with a long blunt object, possibly a gun.

I don't think anyone denies poor Nevill took a deadful beating but at the same time bullets fired into the body will produce local bruising and trauma including broken bones.

[Adam]

no body was denying that - they were questioning the sequence of events

I wasn't questioning the events.

Just stating that if Neville could hardly move after his upstairs shots, why did Sheila give him such a brutal beating ?

However if Neville 'put up a tremendous fight for life' as the judge said and as the state of the kitchen suggests,  why did Sheila have no injuries.

[Jane]

I wasn't questioning the events.

Just stating that if Neville could hardly move after his upstairs shots, why did Sheila give him such a brutal beating ?

However if Neville 'put up a tremendous fight for life' as the judge said and as the state of the kitchen suggests,  why did Sheila have no injuries.

I wonder, given that he'd only seen pictures of Sheila's comparatively unmarked body. and no one -not even Julie- had come forward to say that Jeremy was marked in any way, how the judge was able to ascertain that Neville had "put up a tremendous struggle for life." Certainly, he'd been horrifically beaten but how would we know if he'd have looked any different whether he'd fought back or just given in. Both bullets and blunt instruments can result in broken bones, bleeding and bruising.

[Jan]

I wasn't questioning the events.

Just stating that if Neville could hardly move after his upstairs shots, why did Sheila give him such a brutal beating ?

However if Neville 'put up a tremendous fight for life' as the judge said and as the state of the kitchen suggests,  why did Sheila have no injuries.

why are you trying to apply logic to someone who may have been in the middle of a psychotic episode ?

I think it is very sad after all the information posted on here - even if Jeremy is the murderer- that you appear not to have any understanding for her illness whatsoever .

Do you just chose to ignore the reports from her own doctor when she felt she was a threat to her own sons? The statement that showed she thought one of her friends had appeared to her as the devil ? She thought the CIA were after her , She was not looking after her children full time?


Its like in a way that you are so determined to make Jeremy guilty ( which he already is in the eyes of the law and in jail in case you have forgotten) that you have some vision of Sheila being the perfect mum and having no problems?

But whatever the truth that is very far from the realities of her life.

[maggie]

why are you trying to apply logic to someone who may have been in the middle of a psychotic episode ?

I think it is very sad after all the information posted on here - even if Jeremy is the murderer- that you appear not to have any understanding for her illness whatsoever .

Do you just chose to ignore the reports from her own doctor when she felt she was a threat to her own sons? The statement that showed she thought one of her friends had appeared to her as the devil ? She thought the CIA were after her , She was not looking after her children full time?


Its like in a way that you are so determined to make Jeremy guilty ( which he already is in the eyes of the law and in jail in case you have forgotten) that you have some vision of Sheila being the perfect mum and having no problems?

But whatever the truth that is very far from the realities of her life.

Well said Jan, Sheila deserves more respect in my opinion, her life was a struggle and must have been so difficult. Whether innocent or guilty she was a victim of her illness however hard she may have fought against it.

[Adam]

It seems Bamber knocked Neville out downstairs. Before firing his final head shots into him.

It can take  a lot to knock someone out. Professional boxers spend 36 minutes trying to do this, and often don't succeed.

Bamber's blows eventually knocked Neville out. Sheila would not have had the power.

[maggie]

It seems Bamber knocked Neville out downstairs. Before firing his final head shots into him.

It can take  a lot to knock someone out. Professional boxers spend 36 minutes trying to do this, and often don't succeed.

Bamber's blows eventually knocked Neville out. Sheila would not have had the power.

Most boxers don't already have bullets in their face and body before being knocked out.
If Sheila was in a psychotic state she could have had what is referred to as 'super human strength'.