Sheila's hands

[sc82]

Hi everyone, I've only recently joined the forum although i've been interested in Jeremy's case for a while. I've been reading a lot of different articles over the last few weeks and came across one which mentioned a theory that Sheila must have eaten after the others as she had food in her stomach and this could help explain why there was no traces of residue etc on her hands as she'd have washed her hands before eating.

What do you all make of that? It sounds plausable enough to me but i'm no expert. Apologies if this is going over old ground but what WAS found on Sheila's clothes/hands in the way of residue from the guns?

[bob]

Hi everyone, I've only recently joined the forum although i've been interested in Jeremy's case for a while. I've been reading a lot of different articles over the last few weeks and came across one which mentioned a theory that Sheila must have eaten after the others as she had food in her stomach and this could help explain why there was no traces of residue etc on her hands as she'd have washed her hands before eating.

What do you all make of that? It sounds plausable enough to me but i'm no expert lol. Apologies if this is going over old ground but what WAS found on Sheila's clothes/hands in the way of residue from the guns?

As I understand it, no gun-related residue was found on Sheila's hands which is a big issue for me in terms of the idea that she fired the weapons. Also, her feet were clean which suggests she didn't walk around on blood-splattered carpet.

But as you say, these points have been debated a lot so worth looking through old posts.

P.S. don't mean to be rude but please don't use "lol" - this isn't Facebook! 

[Kaldin]

Low levels of lead were found on her hands, but nothing like the amount that would have been there if she'd handled all those bullets and the gun.

There's a huge amount of information about it in the 2002 appeal because the handling (or mishandling) of the swabs were one of the grounds for appeal.

Here it is - good luck. 

Paras 175 - 232

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2002/2912.htm

[darran lambe]

Low levels of lead were found on her hands, but nothing like the amount that would have been there if she'd handled all those bullets and the gun.

There's a huge amount of information about it in the 2002 appeal because the handling (or mishandling) of the swabs were one of the grounds for appeal.

Here it is - good luck. 

Paras 175 - 232

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2002/2912.htm
[/quoteThis is one of the problems JB has, it's ok to say well the photos prove no marks on the wall but other evidence still proves he was the killer and i'm afraid this has never been disputed. Just because he over turns one point doesn't mean he gets a new appeal.

[grahameb]

Low levels of lead were found on her hands, but nothing like the amount that would have been there if she'd handled all those bullets and the gun.

There's a huge amount of information about it in the 2002 appeal because the handling (or mishandling) of the swabs were one of the grounds for appeal.

Here it is - good luck. 

Paras 175 - 232

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2002/2912.htm

Well in actual fact traces of gun residues are very fragile and can easily be washed off with general washing of hands. Avery good point to bring up if you ask me. Which points to if nothing else that Sheila Caffell was the last person to die? No blood on feet? Well she must have gone somewhere. What is remarkable though is that there are no bloodied footprints of ANYONE let alone Sheila Caffell's.

ps: has anyone thought that perhaps she stepped over any blood?

[Alias]

Low levels of lead were found on her hands, but nothing like the amount that would have been there if she'd handled all those bullets and the gun.

There's a huge amount of information about it in the 2002 appeal because the handling (or mishandling) of the swabs were one of the grounds for appeal.

Here it is - good luck. 

Paras 175 - 232

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2002/2912.htm

Well in actual fact traces of gun residues are very fragile and can easily be washed off with general washing of hands. Avery good point to bring up if you ask me. Which points to if nothing else that Sheila Caffell was the last person to die? No blood on feet? Well she must have gone somewhere. What is remarkable though is that there are no bloodied footprints of ANYONE let alone Sheila Caffell's.

Then aliens must have done it. Or the little dog. Were ther bloodied paw-prints?
No, seriously, there MUST have been bloodied footprints - I am afraid this must have something to do with the botched police investigation.

[Jackiepreece]

I think if the file which has all the details of when the police thought it was suicide was released and not held under pii a lot more questions might be answered

The police must have thought for sometime that sheila was physically capable of the murders or the police would have started a murder enquiry right away

[grahameb]

I think if the file which has all the details of when the police thought it was suicide was released and not held under pii a lot more questions might be answered

The police must have thought for sometime that sheila was physically capable of the murders or the police would have started a murder enquiry right away

I think it was some of the younger officers who began to think otherwise because of the continual pestering by Mr and Mrs Marple when they got no joy from Taff Jones?

[lebaleb]

If Sheila's right hand palm made the bloody hand print on her nightdress and they found no blood on her hands then she must have washed.

[darran lambe]

I think if the file which has all the details of when the police thought it was suicide was released and not held under pii a lot more questions might be answered

The police must have thought for sometime that sheila was physically capable of the murders or the police would have started a murder enquiry right away

They only thought see did it because JB said all along it was her but junior police suspected from day one something wasn't right.

[darran lambe]

If Sheila's right hand palm made the bloody hand print on her nightdress and they found no blood on her hands then she must have washed.

How could she have washed herself half dead lying in the kitchen and then running up stairs afterwards. She can't once she had died. Plus if she had her fingerprints would have been all over the gun and bible but they weren't.

[grahameb]

I think if the file which has all the details of when the police thought it was suicide was released and not held under pii a lot more questions might be answered

The police must have thought for sometime that sheila was physically capable of the murders or the police would have started a murder enquiry right away

They only thought see did it because JB said all along it was her but junior police suspected from day one something wasn't right.

So Taff Jones only thought she did it because JB told him? So he didn't gather that knowledge by reading the crime scene then?

[clifford]

Shiela could have washed her hands before the first.
As for the lack off fingerprints the police could have wiped the gun after they had moved it about, and realising they can cocked up.
Remember they thought at the time it was suicide, so were unconcerned with prints.

[lebaleb]

If Sheila's right hand palm made the bloody hand print on her nightdress and they found no blood on her hands then she must have washed.

How could she have washed herself half dead lying in the kitchen and then running up stairs afterwards. She can't once she had died. Plus if she had her fingerprints would have been all over the gun and bible but they weren't.

I don't think she was half dead in the kitchen, I think that was a misunderstanding between the police.

[smiffy]

sorry as people mentioned footprints....
We mainly have spots of blood all over the bedroom carpet. The pictures are not of the best quality for checking bloodspots on the carpet but in some pictures there appears the odd spot or two of what I think is blood on the carpet between Sheila's legs and between her left leg and the bed.
We obviously cannot tell what bloodspots may be concealed by her body, the socks on the floor or the bible.

I very much expect someone did tread on bloodspots. The main pictures are poor but there appear strong patterns of blood spots that do seem to tie in with some of the fainter harder to see blood spots.
We do not have prints as such but some wet spots trod on will go onto the bottom of footwear in patterns that can be spread as the person steps around. The resultant fainter stains having less blood in them not showing up as well in the pictures.   I do beleive I have seen some of this happening but it is very hard to tell and be definitve on the issue.
Who transferred the spots...someone able to step on them when they were still wet enough to cause some transfer.

The police soon got rid of bits of the  carpet it seems...why?..it does seem suspicious? Or was there footwear or socks about were responsible for clean feet while bloodspot transfer too place and these items have been erm neglected or not disclosed or lied about by those who should know better?