A fair trial?

[shonapugs]

Oh, dear God. Of course I'm not Ann Eaton.

[Kaldin]

European Convention on Human Rights: Article 6 - fair trial

"Article 6 provides a detailed right to a fair trial, including:


The right to a public hearing before an independent and impartial tribunal

Within reasonable time

the presumption of innocence

and other minimum rights for those charged with a criminal offence

adequate time and facilities to prepare their defence

access to legal representation
 
The right to examine witnesses against them or have them examined

right to the free assistance of an interpreter."


The right to an impartial tribunal and the presumption of innocence were denied to Jeremy Bamber when the judge referred to Sheila as murdered. In so doing, the judge effectively directed the jury to find Bamber guilty.

The right to adequate facilities to prepare his defence was denied to Jeremy Bamber when thousands of pieces of evidence were placed under a PII gagging order which denied JB's defence access to these, thereby preventing the defence doing their job. JB's defence could not possibly have properly represented their client under such restrictive circumstances.

The right to have witnesses examined was denied to Jeremy Bamber when the prosecution used the PII gagging order to withhold witness statements from the defence: statements such as that of the electricity meter reader who had witnessed one of Sheila's psychotic episodes just hours prior to the murders. Ewen Smith took a witness statement from the employee, and found out that he had made a witness statement to the original investigating officers, only for it not to be disclosed to Jeremy or his legal team, and not listed as being withheld under pii rules.


Jeremy Bamber's defence and any hope of justice or a fair trial for Jeremy Bamber were locked in a PII straight Jacket from which justice and the truth had no hope of escaping.

Had any of my tribunal clients been placed in such a prejudicial situation, they would have had no hope of a fair hearing of their case.


"A fair trial might be impeded by:

Contempt of court (typically by the media or jurors)

Witness intimidation

Non-disclosure of evidence, through malice or through abuse of State Secrets Privilege (in the USA) or Public interest immunity (in the UK)"

In my opinion, contempt of court by media, or the press, includes the press reaching, or suggesting they are interested in agreeing, an arrangement with a trial witness, prior to a trial, for the witness to sell their story to a newspaper. If this happened in JM's case, then it prejudiced this trial and Bamber's right to a fair trial,

In my opinion, this trial was prejudicial to justice.

Thanks Choch. If the judge referred to Sheila as being murdered then I agree that was biased and shouldn't have happened.

Re the electricity meter reader, if witness statements are withheld from the defence, is there anything to stop a witness going straight to the defence and telling them what they know? If I had made a statement and I found out it wasn't going to be used, I would go to the people who I think should know about it.

[lebaleb]

Hmmm. No, you're right. Not exactly from day one. Just when she was backed into a corner. I'm afraid that the solution might just be the simple one. JB did pay, but possibly gave JM the wrong name. Is that called a ringer?

I think Jeremy Bamber would have arranged for a better alibi if he had hired a hitman. I think all people who hire hitmen (not that I personally KNOW any) make sure they have airtight alibis. It seems implausible to me. He wasn´t that stupid.

How would the hitman feel when he heard that JM got 25,000 and he did all the dirty work for only 2000? I think the Judge also said that the struggle in the kitchen 'undoubtably' took place. Or was that in the appeal?

[Kaldin]

Hmmm. No, you're right. Not exactly from day one. Just when she was backed into a corner. I'm afraid that the solution might just be the simple one. JB did pay, but possibly gave JM the wrong name. Is that called a ringer?

I think Jeremy Bamber would have arranged for a better alibi if he had hired a hitman. I think all people who hire hitmen (not that I personally KNOW any) make sure they have airtight alibis. It seems implausible to me. He wasn´t that stupid.

How would the hitman feel when he heard that JM got 25,000 and he did all the dirty work for only 2000?

Pretty fed up I should think. 

[grahameb]

I suspect that juries often are guided by what the judge says, especially if they are not mentally capable of thinking around the case themselves. Others tend to just go along with those jury members who are the stronger characters among them. That was my experience anyway. I remember one case where this man was accused of stealing a car. The judge didn't want it in his court as it was a Crown Court. And so he asked defence counsel in no uncertain terms what is this case doing here? and then instructed the jury to find him not guilty and they listened.

[lebaleb]

I suspect that juries often are guided by what the judge says, especially if they are not mentally capable of thinking around the case themselves. Others tend to just go along with those jury members who are the stronger characters among them. That was my experience anyway. I remember one case where this man was accused of stealing a car. The judge didn't want it in his court as it was a Crown Court. And so he asked defence counsel in no uncertain terms what is this case doing here? and then instructed the jury to find him not guilty and they listened.

Also a lot of sexual politics involved in decisions of guilt and powers to persuade.

[chochokeira]

European Convention on Human Rights: Article 6 - fair trial

"Article 6 provides a detailed right to a fair trial, including:


The right to a public hearing before an independent and impartial tribunal

Within reasonable time

the presumption of innocence

and other minimum rights for those charged with a criminal offence

adequate time and facilities to prepare their defence

access to legal representation
 
The right to examine witnesses against them or have them examined

right to the free assistance of an interpreter."


The right to an impartial tribunal and the presumption of innocence were denied to Jeremy Bamber when the judge referred to Sheila as murdered. In so doing, the judge effectively directed the jury to find Bamber guilty.

The right to adequate facilities to prepare his defence was denied to Jeremy Bamber when thousands of pieces of evidence were placed under a PII gagging order which denied JB's defence access to these, thereby preventing the defence doing their job. JB's defence could not possibly have properly represented their client under such restrictive circumstances.

The right to have witnesses examined was denied to Jeremy Bamber when the prosecution used the PII gagging order to withhold witness statements from the defence: statements such as that of the electricity meter reader who had witnessed one of Sheila's psychotic episodes just hours prior to the murders. Ewen Smith took a witness statement from the employee, and found out that he had made a witness statement to the original investigating officers, only for it not to be disclosed to Jeremy or his legal team, and not listed as being withheld under pii rules.


Jeremy Bamber's defence and any hope of justice or a fair trial for Jeremy Bamber were locked in a PII straight Jacket from which justice and the truth had no hope of escaping.

Had any of my tribunal clients been placed in such a prejudicial situation, they would have had no hope of a fair hearing of their case.


"A fair trial might be impeded by:

Contempt of court (typically by the media or jurors)

Witness intimidation

Non-disclosure of evidence, through malice or through abuse of State Secrets Privilege (in the USA) or Public interest immunity (in the UK)"

In my opinion, contempt of court by media, or the press, includes the press reaching, or suggesting they are interested in agreeing, an arrangement with a trial witness, prior to a trial, for the witness to sell their story to a newspaper. If this happened in JM's case, then it prejudiced this trial and Bamber's right to a fair trial,

In my opinion, this trial was prejudicial to justice.

Thanks Choch. If the judge referred to Sheila as being murdered then I agree that was biased and shouldn't have happened.

Re the electricity meter reader, if witness statements are withheld from the defence, is there anything to stop a witness going straight to the defence and telling them what they know? If I had made a statement and I found out it wasn't going to be used, I would go to the people who I think should know about it.

I'm sure you and I might contact the defence, Kaldin - if we became aware of this issue - yet many people would lack the confidence or even the inclination to do so.

I've worked with the public all my life and - with great respect to all of them, for there are many good reasons for the following - I still have to constantly remind myself that a large proportion of the public struggle to either express themselves clearly or to write a simple letter.

I'm currently part of a local campaign against proposed, huge development near here and am collecting a petition and letters of objection to this. The other day a local man who is strongly opposed to the planned estate told me he cannot read or write so cannot produce a letter. Yet with encouragement he managed to write a stunning letter about his belief that the development would damage the habitat of the protected wildlife he loves, including our wonderful kingfishers, by polluting our stream via a SUDs system. His letter was all the more lovely for his rather unique spelling and his use of the old Essex dialect.

This lovely man told me that he'd had to leave school at 12 or 13 and had taken a lot of time out of his schooling prior to that in order to contribute income to his family. Without encouragement he would never have had the confidence to write that letter. I would estimate that around a third of those I approach struggle to express themselves and need help and encouragement to do so.

It takes confidence and courage to challenge a lawyer.

[chochokeira]

I suspect that juries often are guided by what the judge says, especially if they are not mentally capable of thinking around the case themselves. Others tend to just go along with those jury members who are the stronger characters among them. That was my experience anyway. I remember one case where this man was accused of stealing a car. The judge didn't want it in his court as it was a Crown Court. And so he asked defence counsel in no uncertain terms what is this case doing here? and then instructed the jury to find him not guilty and they listened.

Good point. That's very true, Grahame.

[chochokeira]

I suspect that juries often are guided by what the judge says, especially if they are not mentally capable of thinking around the case themselves. Others tend to just go along with those jury members who are the stronger characters among them. That was my experience anyway. I remember one case where this man was accused of stealing a car. The judge didn't want it in his court as it was a Crown Court. And so he asked defence counsel in no uncertain terms what is this case doing here? and then instructed the jury to find him not guilty and they listened.

Also a lot of sexual politics involved in decisions of guilt and powers to persuade.

You may have hit the nail on the head there, lebaleb. The impact of hormonal drives on all areas of life does extend to the courtroom too. To paraphrase my former MP, he says that male politicians are driven by the irrational desire to improve the size of their manhood and that female politicians are driven by the desire to cut that manhood down to size. Of course, my former MP is a dreadful sexist. 

[Jackiepreece]

Brilliant brilliant posts as usual Chochokeira imagine if JB is innocent sitting in prison I wish he could read some of your words they would keep him going if he was ever thinking of giving up his fight

[chochokeira]

I suspect that juries often are guided by what the judge says, especially if they are not mentally capable of thinking around the case themselves. Others tend to just go along with those jury members who are the stronger characters among them. That was my experience anyway. I remember one case where this man was accused of stealing a car. The judge didn't want it in his court as it was a Crown Court. And so he asked defence counsel in no uncertain terms what is this case doing here? and then instructed the jury to find him not guilty and they listened.

Also a lot of sexual politics involved in decisions of guilt and powers to persuade.

You may have hit the nail on the head there, lebaleb. The impact of hormonal drives on all areas of life does extend to the courtroom too. To paraphrase my former MP, he says that male politicians are driven by the irrational desire to improve the size of their manhood and that female politicians are driven by the desire to cut that manhood down to size. Of course, my former MP is a dreadful sexist. 

That's an unfair comment about my former MP. He's a great bloke and not at all sexist, he simply enjoys telling jokes and tends to be over the top in the telling. 

[chochokeira]

Brilliant brilliant posts as usual Chochokeira imagine if JB is innocent sitting in prison I wish he could read some of your words they would keep him going if he was ever thinking of giving up his fight

Thank you, Jackie, but they won't be so brilliant once Kaldin cuts them down to size 

[Jackiepreece]

Chochokeira

Famous quote from Julie Roberts in the film Erin Brockovich

Look I don't know shit about shit but I know what's right and what's wrong



That's all you need

[Hartley]

Brilliant brilliant posts as usual Chochokeira imagine if JB is innocent sitting in prison I wish he could read some of your words they would keep him going if he was ever thinking of giving up his fight

Okay, this sitting on a convicted murderers knee stroking his hair and whispering sweet nothings into his ear, type comments is really quite bizarre. 

[grahameb]

Brilliant brilliant posts as usual Chochokeira imagine if JB is innocent sitting in prison I wish he could read some of your words they would keep him going if he was ever thinking of giving up his fight

Okay, this sitting on a convicted murderers knee stroking his hair and whispering sweet nothings into his ear, type comments is really quite bizarre. 

Please keep your fantasies to yourself Hartley.