Author Topic: 13 bullet cases in m/bedroom, yet no follower plate mark found on them...  (Read 51489 times)

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Offline scipio_usmc

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And the timing of the official test fire (b) where Fletcher test fired 27 of the 29 control rounds, 2 rounds gone missing...

You can't have only 1 test fire (a) and declare you test fired 23 rounds in one breath, and that you test fired 27 rounds in another breath. Quite clearly, there were two separate test fires, one where Fletcher test fired 23 rounds, and another test fire where Fletcher test fired 27 rounds. Now, bearing in mind that if you add 23 to 27 it produces a full box of 50 rounds, how does this sit with the claim that there had been only 29 rounds in lab' item number (93)?

You haven't produced any evidence he claimed 27 were test fired or that any were lost.  The evidence you posted in the past asserted 23 were test fired just liek his statement says.
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Offline scipio_usmc

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In 2003 Keith Mallinson identified a feature of the blood found inside the sound moderator which had previously not been noted, or more significantly, explained away. Mallinson noted that blood had been found as far down as the void between baffles 5 and 6. In particular, that blood had been found on the back of baffle plate 5, but not on the upper surface of baffle plate 6. Mallinson has previously testified as an expert in a local suicide involving someone he knew personally. He had over 30 years experience in the field of firearms and ammunitions. He noted the presence of the last blood contaminated baffle was contaminated on the back face of the 5th baffle, in the void between baffles 5 and 6. This he stated, was a significant feature which helped him to understand how the blood inside the sound moderator, had got into the silencer. It may come as a shock to many of you, but Mallinson contends that the blood in the sound moderator, entered it from the bottom end of the silencer, not the top. He is convinced, nay he is adamant that Malcolm Fletchers backscatter theory was wrongly accepted as the phenomena responsible for Sheila's blood getting into the silencer. Mallinson states that had Fletchers backspatter theory been the correct explanation for how the blood got there, he says, blood would have to have entered the top end of the silencer, and that blood would have been deposited on the top surface of the last blood contaminated baffle plate, not the back surface of the same. According to Mallinson, blood in the sound moderator was forced in via the bottom end of the silencer, or in other words when the silencer had been screwed onto the barrel of a blood contaminated rifle barrel, and a live round fired in the gun with the sound moderator attached. He says that based on the position of blood on the back surface of baffle 5, blood was forced out of the barrel into the sound moderator, not the other way around...

More nonsense you made up.
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Offline mike tesko

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We believe but for Jeremy's decision to dispose of Ewen Smiths services in 2004, that all the good work undertaken by Smith and Mallinson between 2003 and 2004 would have led to his convictions being quashed, and the prosecutions ballistic expert, Fletchers evidence being significantly undermined...

This work was sanctioned by Ewen Smith and with the knowledge of Rivlin QC who had represented Jeremy at the failed 2002 appeal hearing. It was pursued on the basis of what the judges said regarding how they would look favourably upon any argument advanced linked to the ammunition which police had wrongly destroyed in 1996. As I have truthfully stated previously, at the time of the appeal in 2002 the defence did not advance any ballistic argument because no-one by that stage had looked into the matter in the same way that Smith and Mallinson did between 2003 / 2004. There wasn't anything that these two pioneering gun enthusiasts did not look into and consider. One of the issues they dealt with, was the claim that with the sound moderator fitted to the barrel of the gun, the overall length of the weapon would have been too long to enable Sheila to shoot herselfbwith the gun so configured. This was dealt with on the basis that the sound moderator had been fitted to the barrel of the rifle at the time she shot herself, but that the silencer had not been removed by anybody afterwards and taken downstairs to be concealed in the downstairs office gun cupboard. We were aware by this stage that DS Jones had taken possession of a silencer from the scene on the morning of 7th August 1985, thus contradicting the claim that only one silencer had been found at the scene, this being the one found by David Boutflour in the aforementioned gun cupboard on the 10th August 1985. How could Jones have taken possession of a silencer at the scene on the morning of 7th August 1985, and then along came the relatives 3 days later to find the same silencer in the aforementioned gun cupboard? Obviously there were two identical parker game silencers at the scene on the morning of 7th August, but only 1 there by the 10th August 1985. Smith and Mallinson came to that conclusion, based on information that two parker hale sound moderators were normally kept at whf, one belonging to AP, the other to Ralph Bamber. The former being the sole silencer kept at the scene since 1980 when AP purchased it along with his .22 Bruno bolt action rifle, the latter being the second of the two silencers kept at the scene since November 1984, when Ralph Bamber purchased it along with the Anshuzt .22 semi automatic Rifle. Smith and Mallinson set about investigating  these matters vigorously and with painstaking diligence. Smith was the owner of the gun club where most of their research into these ballistics issues took place between 2003 and 2004. He had been a probationary police officer who had performed duties during Princess Diana's visit to South Yorkshire, he had been a member of the territorial army based at Catterick, he was a Registered Firearms Dealer, and ran his own fireworks and pyrotechnics business. He and Keith Mallinson both did a marvelous job of looking into all the ballistics matters on behalf of Jeremy Bamber free of charge, and news of everything they did was filtered back and forth to Ewen Smith in his Birmingham office. Now, as I say they set out to try and prove that with the silencer fitted to the rifle barrel that it would not have prevented Sheila from being able to shoot herself using such a configured weapon. The services of Amy Holland were obtained, and with empty rifle and silencer a series of exercises were performed to demonstrate various positions Sheila could have adopted in order to shoot herself twice in the throat at the corresponding angles matching the actual shots had been administered at the time of her shooting (August 1985). These exercises were filmed and photographed, and prove beyond any doubt that the prosecution argument during the trial, that the weapon would have been too long to enable her to shoot herself even if she had wanted to, was in actual fact not true. Sheila could have shot herself with the rifle and silencer attached, as demonstrated by the exercises described. Smith and Mallinson did say, however, that the anshuzt rifle would have been found with the aforementioned silencer fitted to its barrel afterwards. They said that the photographs they had been given access to showed the barrel of the rifle on the body minus a silencer fitted, and that the external screw thread end of the guns barrel appeared to be free from blood. This led them to suspect that somebody may have removed something from the end of the guns barrel prior to the photographs being taken? When enquired into by myself regarding what could possibly have been fitted onto that external thread, they said it might have been one of the silencers, or as the case may be, it could have been the guns metal end cap which fits onto that external thread of the barrel?  During debates between Smith, Mallinson, and myself, regarding the cleanliness of the thread on the end of the rifles barrel as shown in various crime scene photographs, it became obvious that if any of the shots inflicted upon Sheila's throat had been contact in nature, that the tip if the rifle barrel and its thread should have got some blood upon it, or as the case may be, inside the rifles barrel? But we could find no references in the case file to any such blood being found or detected in those such locations. From that point onward, we set about approaching the matter of trying to find any supporting evidence for the inclusion of (a) the guns metal end cap, and (b) a silencer? Dealing with (a) firstly, we discovered that police had taken into their possession at an early stage the (a) metal gun cap which was normally fitted to the guns barrel. However, we could find no information at that stage, how it (a) had ended up being in the possession of the police? My own theory regarding this, was that it had been this metal (a) end cap that David Boutflour had found in the gun cupboard at the scene on 10th August 1985, not the silencer. Furthermore, it had been this (a) metal end cap, which Peter Eaton had given to DS Jones on the 12th August 1985, who in turn had shown it (a) to DI Miller, and which ultimately ended up in DI Cooks possession on the following day, to enable him to take it (a) to the lab' to be provisionally examined by Glynis Howard. If true, then Cook did not take a sound moderator to the lab  on that date, instead he took along the metal end cap (a), upon which was found human blood. I believe this metal end cap was originally given a lab' item number 22, and that there was some red aga paint ingrained into its knurled pattern around its circumference. I also believe that this is the end of the guns barrel, which prompted DS Davidson to tell the COLP investigators that some paint had been found downstairs on the end of a guns barrel, which had caused Cook to take a paint sample (RC/1) from the kitchen aga on 8th August 1985? This theory was problematic however, because Boutflour did not find (a) the guns metal end cap until 10th August 1985, and thus was not potentially handed over to Jones by Peter Eaton until the evening of 12th August 1985. But it (a) fitted the puzzle of why lab' item numbers 22 and 23 later became interchangeable exhibits...

Perhaps the metal end cap (a) of the anshuzt had been left at the scene, or placed in the gun cupboard by the police, prior to the keys of whf being handed back at the scene on evening of 9th August 1985 by Jones and Jones? Another possibility, which I took into consideration, was the meaning of Ann Eaton's note, where she mentions her husband Peter returning the gun back to whf on the evening of 9th August? What was Ann Eaton talking about, when she mentioned this gun? What gun? Did she mean, (a) part of the guns barrel? If so,then how coincidental that he should replace it (a) in the gun cupboard in the downstairs office (9th August), and along comes David Boutflour on the following day to find it (a), along with the Bamber owned silencer...

One thing which bothered me, was the interchangeable lab' item numbers, 22 and 23, or vice versa, supposedly of the same silencer? Well, to me none of that made much sense, I couldn't see the police or those at the lab' making a pigs ear of the exhibit references to the silencer, or indeed create even more confusion by sometimes referring to the silencer as lab' item number 22, and or 23? I think the (a) metal end cap was (22), and the silencer which was not handed over by Ann Eaton until 11th September 1985, became item number 23, or vice versa...

One thing I am certain about, is that David Boutfloyr took possession of (a) the gun barrels metal end cap from the gun cupboard on 10th August 1985, because he makes mention of having done so in one of his witness statement versions..,



« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 08:42:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline scipio_usmc

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We believe but for Jeremy's decision to dispose of Ewen Smiths services in 2004, that all the good work undertaken by Smith and Mallinson between 2003 and 2004 would have led to his convictions being quashed, and the prosecutions ballistic expert, Fletchers evidence being significantly undermined...

This work was sanctioned by Ewen Smith and with the knowledge of Rivlin QC who had represented Jeremy at the failed 2002 appeal hearing. It was pursued on the basis of what the judges said regarding how they would look favourably upon any argument advanced linked to the ammunition which police had wrongly destroyed in 1996. As I have truthfully stated previously, at the time of the appeal in 2002 the defence did not advance any ballistic argument because no-one by that stage had looked into the matter in the same way that Smith and Mallinson did between 2003 / 2004. There wasn't anything that these two pioneering gun enthusiasts did not look into and consider. One of the issues they dealt with, was the claim that with the sound moderator fitted to the barrel of the gun, the overall length of the weapon would have been too long to enable Sheila to shoot herselfbwith the gun so configured. This was dealt with on the basis that the sound moderator had been fitted to the barrel of the rifle at the time she shot herself, but that the silencer had not been removed by anybody afterwards and taken downstairs to be concealed in the downstairs office gun cupboard. We were aware by this stage that DS Jones had taken possession of a silencer from the scene on the morning of 7th August 1985, thus contradicting the claim that only one silencer had been found at the scene, this being the one found by David Boutflour in the aforementioned gun cupboard on the 10th August 1985. How could Jones have taken possession of a silencer at the scene on the morning of 7th August 1985, and then along came the relatives 3 days later to find the same silencer in the aforementioned gun cupboard? Obviously there were two identical parker game silencers at the scene on the morning of 7th August, but only 1 there by the 10th August 1985. Smith and Mallinson came to that conclusion, based on information that two parker hale sound moderators were normally kept at whf, one belonging to AP, the other to Ralph Bamber. The former being the sole silencer kept at the scene since 1980 when AP purchased it along with his .22 Bruno bolt action rifle, the latter being the second of the two silencers kept at the scene since November 1984, when Ralph Bamber purchased it along with the Anshuzt .22 semi automatic Rifle. Smith and Mallinson set about investigating  these matters vigorously and with painstaking diligence. Smith was the owner of the gun club where most of their research into these ballistics issues took place between 2003 and 2004. He had been a probationary police officer who had performed duties during Princess Diana's visit to South Yorkshire, he had been a member of the territorial army based at Catterick, he was a Registered Firearms Dealer, and ran his own fireworks and pyrotechnics business. He and Keith Mallinson both did a marvelous job of looking into all the ballistics matters on behalf of Jeremy Bamber free of charge, and news of everything they did was filtered back and forth to Ewen Smith in his Birmingham office. Now, as I say they set out to try and prove that with the silencer fitted to the rifle barrel that it would not have prevented Sheila from being able to shoot herself using such a configured weapon. The services of Amy Holland were obtained, and with empty rifle and silencer a series of exercises were performed to demonstrate various positions Sheila could have adopted in order to shoot herself twice in the throat at the corresponding angles matching the actual shots had been administered at the time of her shooting (August 1985). These exercises were filmed and photographed, and prove beyond any doubt that the prosecution argument during the trial, that the weapon would have been too long to enable her to shoot herself even if she had wanted to, was in actual fact not true. Sheila could have shot herself with the rifle and silencer attached, as demonstrated by the exercises described. Smith and Mallinson did say, however, that the anshuzt rifle would have been found with the aforementioned silencer fitted to its barrel afterwards. They said that the photographs they had been given access to showed the barrel of the rifle on the body minus a silencer fitted, and that the external screw thread end of the guns barrel appeared to be free from blood. This led them to suspect that somebody may have removed something from the end of the guns barrel prior to the photographs being taken? When enquired into by myself regarding what could possibly have been fitted onto that external thread, they said it might have been one of the silencers, or as the case may be, it could have been the guns metal end cap which fits onto that external thread of the barrel?  During debates between Smith, Mallinson, and myself, regarding the cleanliness of the thread on the end of the rifles barrel as shown in various crime scene photographs, it became obvious that if any of the shots inflicted upon Sheila's throat had been contact in nature, that the tip if the rifle barrel and its thread should have got some blood upon it, or as the case may be, inside the rifles barrel? But we could find no references in the case file to any such blood being found or detected in those such locations. From that point onward, we set about approaching the matter of trying to find any supporting evidence for the inclusion of (a) the guns metal end cap, and (b) a silencer? Dealing with (a) firstly, we discovered that police had taken into their possession at an early stage the (a) metal gun cap which was normally fitted to the guns barrel. However, we could find no information at that stage, how it (a) had ended up being in the possession of the police? My own theory regarding this, was that it had been this metal (a) end cap that David Boutflour had found in the gun cupboard at the scene on 10th August 1985, not the silencer. Furthermore, it had been this (a) metal end cap, which Peter Eaton had given to DS Jones on the 12th August 1985, who in turn had shown it (a) to DI Miller, and which ultimately ended up in DI Cooks possession on the following day, to enable him to take it (a) to the lab' to be provisionally examined by Glynis Howard. If true, then Cook did not take a sound moderator to the lab  on that date, instead he took along the metal end cap (a), upon which was found human blood. I believe this metal end cap was originally given a lab' item number 22, and that there was some red aga paint ingrained into its knurled pattern around its circumference. I also believe that this is the end of the guns barrel, which prompted DS Davidson to tell the COLP investigators that some paint had been found downstairs on the end of a guns barrel, which had caused Cook to take a paint sample (RC/1) from the kitchen aga on 8th August 1985? This theory was problematic however, because Boutflour did not find (a) the guns metal end cap until 10th August 1985, and thus was not potentially handed over to Jones by Peter Eaton until the evening of 12th August 1985. But it (a) fitted the puzzle of why lab' item numbers 22 and 23 later became interchangeable exhibits...

Perhaps the metal end cap (a) of the anshuzt had been left at the scene, or placed in the gun cupboard by the police, prior to the keys of whf being handed back at the scene on evening of 9th August 1985 by Jones and Jones? Another possibility, which I took into consideration, was the meaning of Ann Eaton's note, where she mentions her husband Peter returning the gun back to whf on the evening of 9th August? What was Ann Eaton talking about, when she mentioned this gun? What gun? Did she mean, (a) part of the guns barrel? If so,then how coincidental that he should replace it (a) in the gun cupboard in the downstairs office (9th August), and along comes David Boutflour on the following day to find it (a), along with the Bamber owned silencer...

One thing which bothered me, was the interchangeable lab' item numbers, 22 and 23, or vice versa, supposedly of the same silencer? Well, to me none of that made much sense, I couldn't see the police or those at the lab' making a pigs ear of the exhibit references to the silencer, or indeed create even more confusion by sometimes referring to the silencer as lab' item number 22, and or 23? I think the (a) metal end cap was (22), and the silencer which was not handed over by Ann Eaton until 11th September 1985, became item number 23, or vice versa...

One thing I am certain about, is that David Boutfloyr took possession of (a) the gun barrels metal end cap from the gun cupboard on 10th August 1985, because he makes mention of having done so in one of his witness statement versions..,

You make up nonsense after nonsense after nonsense.

If anything had actually been able to be proved by Mallinson et al then the current attorneys would have used it.  They found zilch.  You just make up one BS thing after the next including making up that blood was found on the thread protector but such finding was concealed.  What evidence do you have?  None because you claim they lied.  How do you know it was found and they lied?  What evidence establishes such was found but they lied?  There is none the claim was simply made up from whole cloth.

"Smith and Mallinson came to that conclusion, based on information that two parker hale sound moderators were normally kept at whf, one belonging to AP, the other to Ralph Bamber. The former being the sole silencer kept at the scene since 1980 when AP purchased it along with his .22 Bruno bolt action rifle, the latter being the second of the two silencers kept at the scene since November 1984, when Ralph Bamber purchased it along with the Anshuzt .22 semi automatic Rifle."

This is just another made up lie.  AP's moderator was purchased shortly before the murders and was brought to WHF on his last stay and was taken home with him he didn't leave it there.  Even Jeremy said he didn't leave the rifle there he took it with him after his last stay.  You make up your own fake facts.  Jeremy's current lawyers can't use this garbage because it is all base don fake made up crap.  It has nothing to do with Smith or Mallinson refusing to provide their information to Jeremy's current lawyers. 

Your lies only serve to demonstrate why you can't be trusted nothing more. 
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Offline Jan

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"AP's moderator was purchased shortly before the murders and was brought to WHF on his last stay and was taken home with him he didn't leave it there.  Even Jeremy said he didn't leave the rifle there he took it with him after his last stay."


Now that's the only new bit of information I have seen on here for a while - that's strange because when we investigated all the original statements from AP he does not say he took his rifle home . And I have never seen Jeremy say that he did.

I remember this because there was a whole thread about how he got awarded compensation from the newspaper when there appeared to be no evidence showing he had removed his rifle

Offline maggie

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"AP's moderator was purchased shortly before the murders and was brought to WHF on his last stay and was taken home with him he didn't leave it there.  Even Jeremy said he didn't leave the rifle there he took it with him after his last stay."


Now that's the only new bit of information I have seen on here for a while - that's strange because when we investigated all the original statements from AP he does not say he took his rifle home . And I have never seen Jeremy say that he did.

I remember this because there was a whole thread about how he got awarded compensation from the newspaper when there appeared to be no evidence showing he had removed his rifle
Very true, Jan.

Offline Jan

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perhaps Scipio could give us the source for Jeremys comment about Anthonys rifle

Offline mike tesko

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Anthony's rifle was at the scene at the time of the shootings, so was his parker hale silencer, and plenty of his .22 ammunition, manufactured by Eley, Winchester and Remington...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline scipio_usmc

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"AP's moderator was purchased shortly before the murders and was brought to WHF on his last stay and was taken home with him he didn't leave it there.  Even Jeremy said he didn't leave the rifle there he took it with him after his last stay."


Now that's the only new bit of information I have seen on here for a while - that's strange because when we investigated all the original statements from AP he does not say he took his rifle home . And I have never seen Jeremy say that he did.

I remember this because there was a whole thread about how he got awarded compensation from the newspaper when there appeared to be no evidence showing he had removed his rifle

Nothing I post is new I am just pointing out things that Mike ignores during the course of his lies.

During Jeremy's interrogation he said AP sometimes leaves his rifle there but he didn't see it after AP's last visit supporting his claim he took it home.

No one asked him to put in his statement that he took it home his weapon was not found at WHF so there was no reason to bother mentioning he took it home it was considered a given that he did after his last visit.  We don't have all his statements so he could at some point have been asked to put it in and naturally Mike is not going to post such statement if it exists.

No one asked him at trial if he left it there during the murders. That is why he didn't mention it he only answers questions actually asked of him.  He was asked about when he does leave it there whether he leaves the bolt and he said no he takes the bolt home with his rifle could not be used in his absence.  He also discussed leaving his shotguns there at the time of the murders which other testimony established was found at WHF. Since his rifle was not found by anyone and not a police exhibit collected at any point that is why there was no occasion to bother specifying his rifle was not there had it been there it would have been expressly stated.   

Because of the COLP allegations they specifically asked him whether he took it home or not and he said he took it home.  There is nothing sinister.

I did mistype above it was the scope not moderator which he purchased recently and was fitting to his rifle.



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Offline Caroline

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Nothing I post is new I am just pointing out things that Mike ignores during the course of his lies.

During Jeremy's interrogation he said AP sometimes leaves his rifle there but he didn't see it after AP's last visit supporting his claim he took it home.

No one asked him to put in his statement that he took it home his weapon was not found at WHF so there was no reason to bother mentioning he took it home it was considered a given that he did after his last visit.  We don't have all his statements so he could at some point have been asked to put it in and naturally Mike is not going to post such statement if it exists.

No one asked him at trial if he left it there during the murders. That is why he didn't mention it he only answers questions actually asked of him.  He was asked about when he does leave it there whether he leaves the bolt and he said no he takes the bolt home with his rifle could not be used in his absence.  He also discussed leaving his shotguns there at the time of the murders which other testimony established was found at WHF. Since his rifle was not found by anyone and not a police exhibit collected at any point that is why there was no occasion to bother specifying his rifle was not there had it been there it would have been expressly stated.   

Because of the COLP allegations they specifically asked him whether he took it home or not and he said he took it home.  There is nothing sinister.

I did mistype above it was the scope not moderator which he purchased recently and was fitting to his rifle.

I was just going to say that!  ;D
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Offline scipio_usmc

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Anthony's rifle was at the scene at the time of the shootings, so was his parker hale silencer, and plenty of his .22 ammunition, manufactured by Eley, Winchester and Remington...

The trial defense didn't think so. The trial defense failed to find any evidence that he left it there after his last visit.  He didn't claim he left it there, Jeremy didn't claim he saw it after AP's last visit, nor was it found at WHF by the police, Eatons or Boutflours.  You have zero basis to say it was at WHF at the time of the murders you have no evidence of any kind to establish such.  You simply made the claim up like so much of what you post is simply made up. These same made up allegations were made to COLP and were disproved by them. AP even got money from someone who falsely reported his rifle was there at the time of the murders.  A court ruled there was no evidentiary basis to make the claim so it was made with a reckless disregard for the truth.  Your statement is thus likewise made with a reckless disregard for the truth because you have zilch to actually support the claim.

We are still waiting for you to post the note you claim you have where Fletcher wrote he test fired 27 bullets.  You previously posted documents that added up to 23 tested and highlighted he tested 23.  You are now contradicting yourself which means either you recently found a document that says 27 and were unaware of it at the time you posted he test fired 23 or you are simply lying and there is no hand written note indicating he test fired 27.


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Offline scipio_usmc

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I was just going to say that!  ;D

I should really proofread before I hit post but I don't and that is not going to change anymore than Mike is going to change his ways so...


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Offline Jan

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He did get confused though- in the trial twice he mentions that the rifle was usually left at WHF - and does not mention removing it until 1991 where he contradicts what he says at trial . BTW I found the post that look out was referring to where NGB said you were getting confused about military and civilian rifles - I think she misunderstood it but she was not deliberately telling lies as you said  :)

« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 10:26:PM by Jan »

Offline Jane

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I should really proofread before I hit post but I don't and that is not going to change anymore than Mike is going to change his ways so...



Guess none of us can change the habits of a life time, Scipio ;) ;D

Offline lookout

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He did get confused though- in the trial twice he mentions that the rifle was usually left at WHF - and does not mention removing it until 1991 where he contradicts what he says at trial . BTW I found the post that look out was referring to where NGB said you were getting confused about military and civilian rifles - I think she misunderstood it but she was not deliberately telling lies as you said  :)






I remember that now.