13 bullet cases in m/bedroom, yet no follower plate mark found on them...

[scipio_usmc]

"No it's not, the solitary round from the box"

Yes, it is - it was not one of the 29 loose bullets, you are barmy even trying to suggest it is, or it was, none of the loose 29 cartridges had a spot of dripped blood on them, but the solitary cartridge in the box did. What we have here is someone at the lab' deliberately contaminating item 93 with use of another exhibit (part of lab' item no. 51. It was done by somebody so that fletcher could make that reference in one of his witness statements that part of 51, and 93 were ELEY type cartridges. Once you know that the solitary bullet in part of 51, has been presented as 93, it becomes easy to see why Fletcher was able to refer to the other 29 loose cartridges as Eley types, by thrusting item 93, and part of 51 being an unfired ELEY cartridge

This is a perfect example of how you ignore the actual evidence and just make up any crap you want.

As plain as day the document you post purports to provide a diagram and description of one of the unfired cartridges from Exhibit 93 AKA DRH/22.  It expressly states it is from 93.

You allege this document contains a lie and that this was actually the single cartridge from Exhibit 51 AKA DRH/23. 

What evidence do you have to support such an allegation?  None!  What is the genesis of this allegation?  It was simply made up from whole cloth without any evidentiary basis at all.

In the real world that is worthless an it is even more worthless if you want to argue such to a court because a court won't even entertain the suggestion without evidence they are even more demanding that ordinary objective rational people.

You can make up any allegations you want but such allegations are worthless without evidence to substantiate them.

"That cartridge is part of 53. While the photo you took is difficult to read it clearly states it is one of the 29 cartridges from 93."

No, it does not mention anywhere at all on that lab' form, anything at all about that solitary bullet being part of the other 29 loose rounds. You are just making up nonsense for the sake of pretending Fletcher and DS Jones, didn't tamper with the crime scene ammunition, the sound moderator, and that both of the reprobates turn the investigation upside down by presenting false ballistic evidence so that they could turn it into a one gun crime...

You have the document in front of you, you can read it far easier than we can and yet still it is easy to see the upper right corner in the field titled "Identifying Mark" it has the number 93 which indicates it is part of 93.  By indicating it is part of 93 it is indicating it is one of the 29 rounds found on the kitchen counter because Exhibit 93 consists of the 29 rounds found on the kitchen counter. 

Why do you bother trying to fool us?  What till it take for you to realize we are no where near as stupid as you hope we are?

The bottom line is the record you posted purports this cartridge is one of the 29 unfired cartridges from 93 and you have zero evidence to prove the document wrong.  In the mumbo jumbo posted above you claimed it was switched and other babble but you have no actual evidence to support such allegations.

Evidence floats unsupported allegations sink.

"There were no bloody prints on the counter."

Yes, there was, everybody can see it as clear as day. Your argument is a foolish gesture trying to pretend this and that,

People see what appear to be marks in the photos.  There is no way for people to be able to tell if these marks are actually there or just shading from the photo. If there is something there people have no way to know if it is dirt or what and no way to know if it is a fingerprint.  People are just wildly speculating.

The people who took the photos and were actually at the scene with a close up view didn't determine such looked like fingerprints or blood.  Their opinions deserve deference your wild allegations do not.

Saying they are definitely bloody prints is nonsense you have no valid basis upon which to assert such. A The photo provides no basis to assert such the best one can do is wildly speculate and that is all you are doing.

in the same way you and others of your elk have been saying all along that there was no blood on the soles of Sheila's feet, no blood on her hands, no blood on her arms, you say she had no injuries or marks at all on her arms, or her body, but we have all seen the photographic evidence, she had blood on the soles of her feet, she had blood on her hands, and she had blood on her arms, and her nightdress, front and rear. Its about time you lot retired from making up nonsense like this

LMAO I don't have antlers it's ilk not elk. There wasn't any blood found on Sheila's feet as to demosntrate she waled through any blood or sugar int he kitchen and there are no photos which demonstrate otherwise.  Nor was there any damage to her hands, nails or any blood from victims on her only her own blood.  The blood on her wrist that ran down to her elbow was her own. She tried to plug the hole in her neck with her wrist.  If she was holding the gun she could not have done that but since she was shot by Jeremy her hand wasn't on the trigger it was near her body and able to go right to her neck.  I follow the evidence while you ignore it and make up claims to pretend Jeremy was framed though it is clear he wasn't.  Your made up claims are worthless because they have zero support.  Allegations are worthless unless they can be proved by credible evidence.  That you make up ridiculous allegations instead of ones that are even remotely possible just makes it worse.

For instance, If I were going to make up the claim that police found 8 casings in the kitchen but moved 4 to the bedroom then I would claim they doctored the reports that indicated where 4 were found.  Instead you make up a convoluted load of nonsense where you claim only 21 cases were found at WHF and later one they added 4 more and took items that originally had been collected as DRH1-4 and moved them to DRH 51-54 and then inserted the cases in place.  This convoluted tale is ridiculous and not how someone planting evidence would do it.  Worse, there were 25 firearm wounds so they would have found 25 all along not 21.  Last and most importantly DRH51-54 were collected in September and not even collected from WHF so how could they have originally been DRH1-4?  Instead of making up something simple that is at least theoretically possible you make up complex nonsense that is completely impossible.  Trying to get us to believe such outlandish things insults our intelligence.

Making up something theoretically possible but that has no proof to establish actually occurred is useless at helping free Jeremy or convince informed, objective people of his innocence.  You need to start concentrating on evidence not unsupported allegations.

"If blood was dropped there it was dropped by the killer like on the bullet but there is no blood noted on the counter let alone bloody prints."

---

The cat got your tongue you didn't reply to this point.

[mike tesko]

The exhibit consisted of the test fired ammo as well as the cartridges never fired even during testing the number of unfired and test fired added up to 29 which is the exact number that had been left in the kitchen unfired. the number of unfired cartridges differs depending upon how many rounds Fletcher test fired. If he only test fired 23 as he claimed in his witness statement, then obviously the would have been 6 remaining unfired cartridges, as opposed to the 2 if Fletcher test fired 27, as per his hand written report. So, clearly you are wrong to say that the same number of test fired rounds, and unrest fired rounds still existed, no matter how many rounds Fletcher had test fired...

He didn't leave Goldhanger until late afternoon after all the statements were taken You'd be well advised to keep your gob shut, until you find out the true facts regarding this matter, but in the meantime pleas be reassured that DS Jones did return to the scene from Jeremy's cottage, I believe it happed at 11am, or there about. This was the occasion he took possession of 4 exhibits from the scene, marked SBJ/1, SBJ/2, SBJ/3 and SBJ/4... and then went back to the police station for the debriefing.


He was neither framed Oh, yes, he was nor is innocent.  He was convicted because he was guilty as sin and that is why he will die in prison. He might not

You can't even keep your story straight. You claimed his notes recorded that he test fired 27 rounds now you claim he test fired all 29.  You are complaining about his claims being inconsistent when yours never are. Fletcher told COLP he fired 27 of the loose 29 cartridges, and that two remaining rounds had got lost. He test fired these 27 cartridges between the 20th September and the 2nd October 1985, which gave rise to our suspicion that the missing 2 rounds had in all probability been used in the unofficial test fire of the gun prior to 12th September 1985.  There were 29 total cartridge cases that were taken into evidence as DRH/22.  The majority of these were test fired. You are wrong, the way I see it, Fletcher did two lots of test firing, he test fired 23 cartridges during what I shall refer to as 'The unreported test fire, and he test fired a further 27 rounds during his official test fire which took place, on 20th, and 25th September,and the 1st and 2'and October 1985. In total Fletcher test fired 50 cartridges, equivalent to a full box of bullets, but hey presto there were only 29 rounds left of the box, after somebody tipped them out of the box, so Fletcher must have had access to a separate supply of .22 ammunition, most of which was used in a substitution process. All they had to do was swap cartridge cases over, and hey presto, they could argue that all the fired bullets fired during the shootings belonged to, and originated from the same batch...  The trial exhibit added up to 29 still No, it did not, there were not 29 unfired bullets by the time the case got to trial... when combining those test fired and those not test fired.  So all were still accounted for.    That is a blatent lie, and you know it, so do most other people

It makes no difference if the court exhibit featured 23 test fired rounds and 6 unfired rounds or 27 test fired rounds and 2 unfired rounds. It does matter   Either way the full 29 are accounted for No, they are not, you can't rely upon two conflicting accounts to say the amount of .22 ammunition is correct, what you are trying to do, is doctor the evidence exactly like the police have and did and your claim they were planted somewhere else falls apart. No, it doesn't fall a part, my version of events stands up to scrutiny, whereas yours is either just wishful thinking or pure fabrication

You failed miserably at establishing the .22 ammunition used for the murders were different varieties (which is what you mean by different batches).  You also failed to establish anything dodgy about the evidence. That's just your opinion which in my book counts for very little

[scipio_usmc]

"The exhibit consisted of the test fired ammo as well as the cartridges never fired even during testing the number of unfired and test fired added up to 29 which is the exact number that had been left in the kitchen unfired."

the number of unfired cartridges differs depending upon how many rounds Fletcher test fired. If he only test fired 23 as he claimed in his witness statement, then obviously the would have been 6 remaining unfired cartridges, as opposed to the 2 if Fletcher test fired 27, as per his hand written report. So, clearly you are wrong to say that the same number of test fired rounds, and unrest fired rounds still existed, no matter how many rounds Fletcher had test fired...

I said the total of rounds comprising 93 was 29 rounds and that the number of fired and unfired combined added up to 29.  You can play all the games you desire the simple fact is this is true- whatever he test fired still remained part and parcel of 93 and were not available to plant somewhere nor did he have any need to plant any cartridges.  The combined number of spent .22LR casings collected on August 7 and 8 totaled 25- the same number of gunshot wounds. 

DS Jones did return to the scene from Jeremy's cottage, I believe it happed at 11am, or there about. This was the occasion he took possession of 4 exhibits from the scene, marked SBJ/1, SBJ/2, SBJ/3 and SBJ/4...

Note how you refused to quote my previous response and just repeated the same mantra.

You have ZERO evidence he collected anything form WHF on August 7 let alone 4 items.  Neither he nor anyone else asserts he took anything from the scene.  If He had taken the items you claim and they were assigned the exhibit references you claim then on 8/13/85 the moderator would have been given designation SBJ/5 instead of SBJ/1.  Your made up claims have zero support and are refuted by the moderator being identified as SBJ/1 on August 13 that proves no exhibits had previously been collected by Jones.  You bear the burden of proof but have none and have no response to my points so keep pretending I didn't make them.

"You can't even keep your story straight. You claimed his notes recorded that he test fired 27 rounds now you claim he test fired all 29.  You are complaining about his claims being inconsistent when yours never are."

Fletcher told COLP he fired 27 of the loose 29 cartridges, and that two remaining rounds had got lost. He test fired these 27 cartridges between the 20th September and the 2nd October 1985, which gave rise to our suspicion that the missing 2 rounds had in all probability been used in the unofficial test fire of the gun prior to 12th September 1985.

1) Post Fletcher's COLP statement because you lie too much to ever be trusted without seeing evidence first hand

2) This doesn't change the fact claimed stated he fired 27 and then changed it to claiming he stated he fired 29.  Your claims are inconsistent and your attempt to reconcile them falls apart because now you are claiming you suspect he fired 29 not that he claims he did whereas you claimed he stated he fired 29.

Here again are your own words:

"he says he test fired 23 cartridges in his only test, yet elsewhere he claims he fired 29 rounds, so which is it?"

You are guilty of the same thing you are attacking him over. In the meantime you have not produced his hand note where you claim he says he test fired 27 of the 29 rounds so have not proven he made the error while it is clear as day you made the error attributed to you.

"There were 29 total cartridge cases that were taken into evidence as DRH/22.  The majority of these were test fired.

You are wrong, the way I see it, Fletcher did two lots of test firing, he test fired 23 cartridges during what I shall refer to as 'The unreported test fire, and he test fired a further 27 rounds during his official test fire which took place, on 20th, and 25th September,and the 1st and 2'and October 1985. In total Fletcher test fired 50 cartridges, equivalent to a full box of bullets, but hey presto there were only 29 rounds left of the box, after somebody tipped them out of the box, so Fletcher must have had access to a separate supply of .22 ammunition, most of which was used in a substitution process. All they had to do was swap cartridge cases over, and hey presto, they could argue that all the fired bullets fired during the shootings belonged to, and originated from the same batch...

All this amounts to is a load of nonsense you made up.  IF your claim regarding his notes are true then it simply establishes he made a mistake on either the notes or in his statement regarding how many rounds from 93 he test fired.  He messed up and either wrote 23 or 27 by accident and it was the other figure.  You decided to just MAKE UP the claim he fired both numbers and to add them up.  On what basis do you do so?  Just because you wanted to make such up not because there is any evidentiary support.

This is just an unsupported allegation that is worthless as are all your unsupported allegations.  Unsupported allegations don't amount to squat.

In the meantime you make up a load of nonsense about how they neede dot plant these extra casings to take away non-Eley casings.  The only ammunition Nevill owned was Eley.  The only 22LR gun at WHF at the time of the murders was the Anschutz. it clearly was the weapon used.  Your made up claims about other guns and calibers being used are not only unsupported but amount to ludicrous nonsense.

Only irrational, ignorant biased fools will believe any of this ridiculous tripe- if you are going to make up something at least make up something that makes sense.

"The trial exhibit added up to 29 still when combining those test fired and those not test fired.  So all were still accounted for. "

No, it did not, there were not 29 unfired bullets by the time the case got to trial...That is a blatent lie, and you know it, so do most other people

The only blatant lie is from you.  I didn't claim the 29 rounds comprising 93 were all unfired by the time of the trial.  I said the bulk of them were test fired and that the number test fired combined with those that remained unfired added up to 29.   You keep misrepresenting what I write to try to pretend I was wrong.  Your spinning simply demonstrates your dishonesty though.  All someone need do is look at the underscored portion of my quote to see your mischaracterization bears no semblance to reality. 

"It makes no difference if the court exhibit featured 23 test fired rounds and 6 unfired rounds or 27 test fired rounds and 2 unfired rounds. Either way the full 29 are accounted for "

No, they are not, you can't rely upon two conflicting accounts to say the amount of .22 ammunition is correct, what you are trying to do, is doctor the evidence exactly like the police have and did

No what I am doing is facing reality. The reality is that the trial exhibit featured unfired and fired rounds totaling 29. If they didn't total 29 then the defense would have asked Fletcher why not.   The defense didn't have any problems with the exhibit because nothing was missing. 

IF (you still have not produced evidence in his notes that he recorded test firing 27 of them) he test fired 27 but his statement contained a typo that said he test fired 23  all that proves is that his statement had a typo nothing more.  Your wild conspiracy claims are not supported by such typo if it exists.

You intentionally have refused to post Fletcher's full testimony which would actually mention in detail his testing.  You also refused to post the full Dickinson report which again would likely have discussed the test firing.  Nor have you produced Fletcher's COLP testimony.  If you produce all in full there is little doubt it will put an end to many of you allegations which is why you won't post these items in full. 

It's the same reason why supporters won't publish the CCRC's rejection- then everyone would see why the claims made to the CCRC were invalid and supporters are still making some of these invalid claims so don't want such revealed.

You try to fool people by keeping them in ignorance of the true facts.  But that only works with people who are not smart enough to recognize that the burden off proof rests on your shoulders so keeping us in the dark simply supports the status quo.

"You failed miserably at establishing the .22 ammunition used for the murders were different varieties (which is what you mean by different batches).  You also failed to establish anything dodgy about the evidence."

That's just your opinion which in my book counts for very little

No it is a fact that you have failed to establish other brands of 22LR ammunition was used, that other varieties than subsonic hollowpoints were used and that other calibers than 22LR were used.  Your allegation that other guns were used also have no suport.  Even Jeremy said AP took his gun home with him after his last visit. Ignoring reality doesn't prove anything except that you are too biased to face the case rationally.

[mike tesko]

Where did you learn your math? Since when does 23+6 or 27+2 equal 33? They equal 29. 

The COLP interview notes are not in order. They are if you put them in the correct order There are pages talking about Jones in third person and I don't know, I didn't record the interview notes then someone speaking in first person and the person talking was not me, so I can't help you it wasn't entirely clear the first person speaking is DS Jones. Rest assured, DS Jones returned to the scene that morning at around 11am, I believe there is mention of this in his dodgy pocketbook entry dated, 7th August 1985   In any event if he did go to WHF that doesn't establish he took anything. But he did, he seized a sound moderator SBJ/1, and three other exhibits. This silencer had the identifying mark of SJ/1 when handed over to DCI 'Taff' Jones, but in the property register only the other 3 exhibits were recorded, SBJ/2, SBJ/3 and SBJ/4 Indeed he doesn't mention taking any exhibits and the only exhibits with his initials were from other dates including photos. he removed exhibits from the scene that morning whilst the bodies of victims were still laying in with situ   The first exhibit under his name was from the 13th of August and that was later changed to  DB/1. No, he didn't. He had possession of a sound moderator from the first day of the investigation. The one bearing the identifying mark of SJ/1. DS Jones did not receive a sound moderator from Peter Eaton on the 13th August 1985. The relatives only handed over the silencer belonging to the Bambers  Rifle (18) on the 11th September 1985. The other silencer (SJ/1) was the one Cook took to the lab' on the 13th August, this was the one provisionally examined by Glynis Howard on that date. She handed that silencer back to Cook that very same date, and Cook went onto to dismantle and rebuild it in the 29th August. He took photographs of the disturbance he made of the silencer, and it is worth pointing out that on that occasion, with the silencer stripped down, baffles separated, Cook did not see or find any blood on any baffle plate of this silencer on that occasion. In the photographs Cook took of his interference of the silencer, was attached a piece of paper with the mark, SJ/1, upon it... If he already had 4 exhibits yes, he took 4 exhibits from the scene that first morning taken as you claim then the moderator turned over to Cook would have been SBJ/5 instead of 1. he didn't hand it is over to Cook on the 7th August, he handed it (SJ/1) to DCI 'Taff' Jones, who retained it on his desk in his office at Witham police station, until it was sent to the lab' on two occasions, once on 13th and secondly,on the 30th August 1985.

Here are your own words:

"he says he test fired 23 cartridges in his only test, yet elsewhere he claims he fired 29 rounds, so elsewhere he inferred he had fired all 29 rounds, but when COLP pointed out that he had only test fired 27 bullets and they wanted to know the whereabouts of the 2 unfired control bullets, Fleture took on an evasive stance, claiming that these two rounds had been lost which is it?"

I'm not a buffoon you don't even know what you are writing. to my mind you are a baffoon You clearly asserted he claimed he test fired 23 rounds in 1 spot and all 29 rounds in another spot.  Yet previous to this you wrote 23 and 27. You are attacking him for being inconsistent when you are doing the same thing.  Correct interpretation is that there existed 29 control bullets, and Fletcher claims he test fired 23 (see witness statement) and he also test fired 27 (hand written note version) if he fired 23 from the batch of 29, then that leaves 6 unfired rounds. If he test fired 27 of the 29 rounds, then 2 unfired rounds existed...

You are trying to create inconsistencies that don't exist. Inconsistencies do exist   DRH/22 consisted of 29 cartridges total not including the solitary loose round in the box on the kitchen worktop . At the outset all 29 were unfired Correct .  A majority of them were used for test firing so a majority of these 29 were spent casings and bullets by the time of the trial. please supply the court exhibit number for this exhibit? The number of unfired cartridges and those test fired added up to 29 there was no discrepancy like you are trying to pretend.  Hehe got it wrong may have test fired some subsequent to his statement.  He may have been wrong in his statement or wrong in his notes. He could have made the same error you just made. I didn't make an error, I was drawing an inference from what Fletcher said to the COLP interviewers   You meant to say 27 and wrote 29. The only way there would be a problem would be if the court exhibit had less than 29 cartridges total counting the fired and unfired cartridges all together.  But that is not the case there were still 29 total so your efforts fall flat. [color=red None existed of the test fired rounds, and according to what Fletcher told the COLP investigators, non of the unfired cartridges existed either, because Fletchers excuse was that they had been lost ][/color]

The fired cartridges each consist of a spent bullet and casing, the unfired cartridges are still 1 unit each. The number of fired and unfired add up to 29 total.  I didn't claim there were 6 plus 2 unfired cartridges I said EITHER 6 or 2.  You intentionally keep trying to twist because you have zilch to support Jeremy and yet desperately want to pretend he was framed.the two examples I have drawn your attention to, do not both add up together alongside of one another with the balance of loose bullets standing at 29. You can't say that either 23 or 27 rounds were test fired, and either 2 or 6 unfired rounds remained

Post evidence that he claimed two were lost at the time of the trial.  The defense would have noticed 2 cartridges missing and would have questioned him about it. No they wouldn't and didn't. They had no such suspicions during the trial

Clearly math is not your strong suit. There were 29 total sitting on the counter and 1 in the tray.  Of the 29 on the counter the bulk were test fired.  The remainder remained unfired.  The number test fired and that remained unfired combined added up to 29. 27 test fired, and 6 unfired, totals 33. Alternatively, 23 test fired, and 2 unfired rounds totals 25, not 29 as you allege There is no discrepancy except in your mind.   There wasn't 33 depends which way you add things together and thus wasn't 4 extra.  In the meantime seconds ago you claimed 2 were missing now you are claiming 4 extra.  You are all over the place. rather than blame me, because these discrepancies exis

Your claims are contradictory and fell apart. You claimed there were 2 cartridges lost and yet 4 extra cartridges.  You have no clue what you are talking about. On the contrary, I know exactly what I am talking about There were 29 total in the exhibit. Your efforts all fall apart completely including your absurd claim about 1 of the bullets being .223/5.56mm.   

His chart which contained the word whole for some clearly didn't mean whole Whole, means Whole, no excuses are invited in the sense of the full weight of the unfired bullet. If he intended whole to mean such then his chart contains errors because clearly some were not even close. It is possible his statement did contain typos in that regard.  How could a typo be the correct explanation considering he also referred to these same 12 control rounds as Whole in his hand written notes? The burden is on you to prove Fletcher lied I think there were two test fires of the ammunition, one pre 12th September 1985, and secondly another test fire between 20th September and the 2nd October 1985, 23 test fired in the former, 27 test fired in the latter... and that evidence was doctored not for me to disprove it.  You have not proven such except in your wildest dreams.

These are supposedly the weights of the 12 bullet she referred to as whole:

Sheila
1  ) PV/19 2.16g
2  ) PV/20  1.54g

June
3  ) PV/23 2.29g
4  ) PV/24 2.42g
5  ) DRH/35a 2.43g
6  ) DRH/35b 2.44g

Nevill
7  ) DRH/5 2.42g
8  ) PV/2 2.42g
9  ) PV/4 2g

Daniel
10) PV/29 2.13g
11) DRH/36 2.42g
Nicholas
12) PV/31 2.12g

PV/20 and PV/4 are way off the rest. He clearly wasn't using the term to mean the complete weight. He was referring to bullet head weight

I'm not struggling in the least. You are the one making up stupid stories that make no sense or evidentiary support about bullets being switched and casings being switched and police shooting Sheila then moving her body and so much more and struggling to find  away to pretend these ridiculous things could be true. it is all true

[scipio_usmc]

"Where did you learn your math? Since when does 23+6 or 27+2 equal 33? They equal 29. 

The COLP interview notes are not in order. There are pages talking about Jones in third person and speaking in first person"

They are if you put them in the correct order. I don't know, I didn't record the interview notes the person talking was not me, so I can't help you

You posted it.  You mixed a hodgepodge together out of sequence.  Some pages are from those who were interviewing police.  Other pages were clearly in the first person of the police so either were pocketbook entries or were statements given to COLP.  It should be spelled out what the source is not just jumble select pages from a bunch of stuff together. You should not complain about people failing to follow the materials when you do such. It is hard enough reading handwritten print when it is scanned as oppose to a photo taken and out of sequence.

"it wasn't entirely clear the first person speaking is DS Jones."
Rest assured, DS Jones returned to the scene that morning at around 11am, I believe there is mention of this in his dodgy pocketbook entry dated, 7th August 1985

Some of what was posted might be from his pocketbook, it is hard to tell. In a thread where you posted specifically about his pocketbook all you posted was the cover...

In any event  going back to WHF doesn't establish he took any exhibits. If he had taken 4 exhibits then the moderator from the family would have been SBJ/5 instead of SBJ/1.

"In any event if he did go to WHF that doesn't establish he took anything."

But he did, he seized a sound moderator SBJ/1, and three other exhibits. This silencer had the identifying mark of SJ/1 when handed over to DCI 'Taff' Jones, but in the property register only the other 3 exhibits were recorded, SBJ/2, SBJ/3 and SBJ/4

These are allegations you made up from whole cloth you have zero evidentiary support.  There was moderator handed over to Taff Jones. Nor was there anything registered in the property books as being taken at WHF by Stan Jones. There never was any Exhibit marked SJ/1.  The first exhibit taken by Jones was conveyed to him from the family which is why it has the number 1 in it.

Your nonsense is all for nothing, if the moderator had been seized the first day that would have been fine there would be no need for the police to conceal such.  But they didn't take it it was left there and found by the family.  That's the only moderator that was owned by Nevill and only one at WHF there was only 1 moderator to find and it was found by the family and turned over to police on the 12th and sent to the lab on the 13th. That is when Jones turned it over to Cook and Cook assigned SBJ/1 to it.       

You have no evidence to refute any of this just silly allegations.

"Indeed he doesn't mention taking any exhibits and the only exhibits with his initials were from other dates including photos."

he removed exhibits from the scene that morning whilst the bodies of victims were still laying in with situ

You have no evidence at all that this happened you simply made it up.

"The first exhibit under his name was from the 13th of August and that was later changed to  DB/1."
No, he didn't. He had possession of a sound moderator from the first day of the investigation. The one bearing the identifying mark of SJ/1. DS Jones did not receive a sound moderator from Peter Eaton on the 13th August 1985. The relatives only handed over the silencer belonging to the Bambers  Rifle (18) on the 11th September 1985. The other silencer (SJ/1) was the one Cook took to the lab' on the 13th August, this was the one provisionally examined by Glynis Howard on that date. She handed that silencer back to Cook that very same date, and Cook went onto to dismantle and rebuild it in the 29th August. He took photographs of the disturbance he made of the silencer, and it is worth pointing out that on that occasion, with the silencer stripped down, baffles separated, Cook did not see or find any blood on any baffle plate of this silencer on that occasion. In the photographs Cook took of his interference of the silencer, was attached a piece of paper with the mark, SJ/1, upon it...

Everything you just wrote is entirely made up.  There is zero evidence of anything being labeled SJ/1 let alone a moderator.  There was only 1 moderator at WHF it was turned over on the 12th of August.  These wasn't any moderator turned over by the family in September.  You keep making a lot of allegations but have zero proof to support any of them and they are stupid allegations since there was only 1 moderator.  What moderator could the family have found if police took the only moderator on the day of the murders?  It is bad enough you are making things up without any evidentiary basis but worse you are making up things that make no sense.  Making thing sup without any evidentiary basis already makes the claims worthless but to make up ridiculous things makes one seriously wonder about you...

Jack lies and tells people that he previously lived in Hong Kong working for a financial firm.

Mike lies and tells people he just returned from a colony on Mars.

Instead of being like Jack you are being like Mike...

Lying is lying neither lie accomplishes anything but the latter either is lying as a joke or has severe problems.  If you want to be taken seriously stop being absurd.

"If he already had 4 exhibits then the moderator turned over to Cook would have been SBJ/5 instead of 1."

he didn't hand it is over to Cook on the 7th August, he handed it (SJ/1) to DCI 'Taff' Jones, who retained it on his desk in his office at Witham police station, until it was sent to the lab' on two occasions, once on 13th and secondly,on the 30th August 1985.

This demonstrates how you are simply making up stupid crap from whole cloth.

He takes 4 items from WHF and labels 1 SJ/1 while he labels the others SBJ/2-4?  Yeah that makes sense...

What evidence do you have he took anything?  NONE!

What evidence do you have that something had been labeled SJ/1?  NONE!

What evidence do you have that something was handed over to Taff Jones and Jones kept it?  NONE!

Since there is no evidence where did these claims come from?  They were made up from whole cloth.

It doesn't matter how made up these stupid claims they are stupid made up claims totally lacking in evidentiary support and would not be alleged by anyone competent.

The only evidence that ACTUALLY exists demonstrates the items labeled SBJ/1-4 were taken August 12 and later.  Also evidence of only 1 moderators being at WHF at the time of the murders let alone found after. Making up things form whole cloth accomplishes nothing.

"Here are your own words:

"he says he test fired 23 cartridges in his only test, yet elsewhere he claims he fired 29 rounds,"

elsewhere he inferred he had fired all 29 rounds, but when COLP pointed out that he had only test fired 27 bullets and they wanted to know the whereabouts of the 2 unfired control bullets, Fleture took on an evasive stance, claiming that these two rounds had been lost

You have failed to provide evidence of this, post his COLP interview so we can see if you are lying further.

In any event this fails to salvage your claims. you claimed he stated he fired 27 rounds in one spot and 29 shortly thereafter.  You were not referring to some inference of him firing 29 rounds you claimed  he stated it in writing.  You were referencing his notes on both occasions.  You claimed in 1 spot it was 27 yet in another 29 and have not produced any evidence to back up either.  You were being inconsistent just like you are accusing Fletcher of being.  You can't spin your way out of it.

"I'm not a buffoon you don't even know what you are writing.You clearly asserted he claimed he test fired 23 rounds in 1 spot and all 29 rounds in another spot.  Yet previous to this you wrote 23 and 27. You are attacking him for being inconsistent when you are doing the same thing."

to my mind you are a baffoon Correct interpretation is that there existed 29 control bullets, and Fletcher claims he test fired 23 (see witness statement) and he also test fired 27 (hand written note version) if he fired 23 from the batch of 29, then that leaves 6 unfired rounds. If he test fired 27 of the 29 rounds, then 2 unfired rounds existed...

That someone engaging in nonsense is calling me a buffoon means nothing.  Just look at your response to my post, you are not even addressing it.  My point was that you are guilty of the same thing you are attacking Fletcher for.  He wrote he test fired 23 in one spot and you allege he wrote 27 in another. You wrote he test fired 27 in one spot and 29 in another.  So you did the same exact thing you screwed up your own claims by not being consistent.  Your attempt to wiggle out fails miserably.  You don't want ot admit you made the same mistake you accuse him of because then you would be admitting such a mistake is easy to make and doesn't amount to anything.  You tried to construct a giant conspiracy around it. 

"You are trying to create inconsistencies that don't exist."

Inconsistencies do exist

Not regarding to the total number of rounds produced at trial for DRH/22. The number of fired and unfired rounds added up to 29.  There was no discrepancy.  You want to pretend some casings were missing so you could claim they were planted though none needed to be planted. You make up so much nonsense that not only do most of your fellow Jeremy supporters not even know what you are talking about you don't even end up knowing what you are talking about- you get lost in your own web.

"DRH/22 consisted of 29 cartridges total"
not including the solitary loose round in the box on the kitchen worktop

The box and round inside it were a different exhibit- DRH/23

"At the outset all 29 were unfired.  A majority of them were used for test firing so a majority of these 29 were spent casings and bullets by the time of the trial."

please supply the court exhibit number for this exhibit?

Offhand I don't know the number and it serves little purpose in looking it up since you have a hard enough problem dealing with the Lab reference number and police reference number, adding a third to the mix will just confuse you more.  In fact you are having a problem keeping track of the fact the box with the round inside was a different police/lab exhibit from the 29 cartridges next to the box. 

"The number of unfired cartridges and those test fired added up to 29 there was no discrepancy like you are trying to pretend.  He may have test fired some subsequent to his statement.  He may have been wrong in his statement or wrong in his notes. He could have made the same error you just made."

I didn't make an error, I was drawing an inference from what Fletcher said to the COLP interviewers.

Nonsense.  If that were the case you would have claimed he wrote 23 but in his notes wrote 27 and in the COLP interview implied all 29 were fired. Seconds apart you wrote 23 and 27 and 23 and 29.  You screwed up and don't want to admit it because it shows how easy such a mistake is to make and why building a giant conspiracy around the error is absurd. 

"You meant to say 27 and wrote 29. The only way there would be a problem would be if the court exhibit had less than 29 cartridges total counting the fired and unfired cartridges all together.  But that is not the case there were still 29 total so your efforts fall flat."

None existed of the test fired rounds, and according to what Fletcher told the COLP investigators, non of the unfired cartridges existed either, because Fletchers excuse was that they had been lost

More nonsense, the test fired rounds did exist still and were exhibits as were the unfired rounds.  Any lost after the trial are immaterial but again you refuse to post Fletcher's COLP interview and full trial testimony as well as the portion of the Dickinson report concerning these issues because they reveal you are full of crap.

"The fired cartridges each consist of a spent bullet and casing, the unfired cartridges are still 1 unit each. The number of fired and unfired add up to 29 total.  I didn't claim there were 6 plus 2 unfired cartridges I said EITHER 6 or 2.  You intentionally keep trying to twist because you have zilch to support Jeremy and yet desperately want to pretend he was framed."

the two examples I have drawn your attention to, do not both add up together alongside of one another with the balance of loose bullets standing at 29. You can't say that either 23 or 27 rounds were test fired, and either 2 or 6 unfired rounds remained

You haven't produced evidence that establishes whether 23 were test fired or 27 thus we can't know which is the case and thus don't know whether 23 were test fired with 6 remaining unfired or 27 with only 2 remaining unfired.  You won't post his full testimony which would speak to such the portions of the Dickinson report that would speak to such or his COLP interview.  Sop all we know is that it was one or the other.  What we do know is that if the total fired and unfired combined didn't add up to 29 the defense would have questioned why.   So all your nonsense is for nothing.

"Post evidence that he claimed two were lost at the time of the trial.  The defense would have noticed 2 cartridges missing and would have questioned him about it."
No they wouldn't and didn't. They had no such suspicions during the trial

They had no suspicions because nothing was missing, your allegations are an illogical mess and there  is zero evidence to support the allegations you keep making so wasn't any evidence at the time of trial either.

"Clearly math is not your strong suit. There were 29 total sitting on the counter and 1 in the tray.  Of the 29 on the counter the bulk were test fired.  The remainder remained unfired.  The number test fired and that remained unfired combined added up to 29."

27 test fired, and 6 unfired, totals 33. Alternatively, 23 test fired, and 2 unfired rounds totals 25, not 29 as you allege

This is a perfect example of how you lie through your teeth about everything.  I states 27+ 2 not 27 + 6 or 23 + 6 not 23 + 2.  You just ignore reality and make up nonsense like your nonsense about a moderator being collected on August 7 and assigned SJ/1 and it sitting in DCI Jones possess for a long period.  You just make up any crap you feel like and expect such nonsense to be believed without question.  Lying just makes you a joke, maybe at some point you will face that but I doubt it you seem to be beyond help.

"There is no discrepancy except in your mind.   There wasn't 33 and thus wasn't 4 extra."
depends which way you add things together

The sum is the same- 27+2=23+6   The sum in both cases is 29. 

"In the meantime seconds ago you claimed 2 were missing now you are claiming 4 extra.  You are all over the place.
rather than blame me, because these discrepancies exis

The discrepancy is in your allegations- you have not established any genuine discrepancy yet.  You claimed in your allegations there were 4 too many and yet 2 too few, you can't make up your mind.  Earlier today you were even more off the wall and claimed he test fired 50.  You just make up anything you feel like without any regard to evidence and logic. You are as phoney as the Keebler Elves.

"Your claims are contradictory and fell apart. You claimed there were 2 cartridges lost and yet 4 extra cartridges.  You have no clue what you are talking about. There were 29 total in the exhibit. Your efforts all fall apart completely including your absurd claim about 1 of the bullets being .223/5.56mm." 

On the contrary, I know exactly what I am talking about

Evidence and logic demonstrate otherwise.

"His chart which contained the word whole for some clearly didn't mean whole  in the sense of the full weight of the unfired bullet. If he intended whole to mean such then his chart contains errors because clearly some were not even close. It is possible his statement did contain typos in that regard.

Whole, means Whole, no excuses are invited. How could a typo be the correct explanation considering he also referred to these same 12 control rounds as Whole in his hand written notes?[/quote]

Whole has to be defined to know his meaning it doesn't necessarily mean the entire bullet was present not missing any fragments.  In the meantime the 12 bullets are not control bullets they were used in the murders. Control bullets are those he fired during testing.  You mix up everything.  In the meantime you have yet to produce evidence that in his notes he asserted he fired 27.  You previously posted notes that stated he fired 23 like he wrote in his statement.

You posted evidence and summarized it as follows:

"8 of these 29 control bullets were test fired by Fletcher on 20th September 1985
2 of these 29 control bullets were test fired by Fletcher on 25th September 1985
12 of these 29 control bullets were test fired by Fletcher on 1st October 1985
1 of these 29 control bullets was test fired by Fletcher on 2nd October 1985"

You constantly contradict yourself. What this demonstrates is that you end up deciding to lie and make up things forgetting you already posted the truth prior. 

 

"The burden is on you to prove Fletcher lied and that evidence was doctored not for me to disprove it."
I think there were two test fires of the ammunition, one pre 12th September 1985, and secondly another test fire between 20th September and the 2nd October 1985, 23 test fired in the former, 27 test fired in the latter...

All you are doing is making allegations- different allegations than you made in the past.  What you decide to "think" at any given moment is not proof.

You posted proof in the past that he claimed the following test firings:
"8 of these 29 control bullets were test fired by Fletcher on 20th September 1985
2 of these 29 control bullets were test fired by Fletcher on 25th September 1985
12 of these 29 control bullets were test fired by Fletcher on 1st October 1985
1 of these 29 control bullets was test fired by Fletcher on 2nd October 1985"

You have not produced anything to challenge this let alone support your wild claims of 50 fired total from a batch of 29 cartridges.

"These are supposedly the weights of the 12 bullet she referred to as whole:

Sheila
1  ) PV/19 2.16g
2  ) PV/20  1.54g

June
3  ) PV/23 2.29g
4  ) PV/24 2.42g
5  ) DRH/35a 2.43g
6  ) DRH/35b 2.44g

Nevill
7  ) DRH/5 2.42g
8  ) PV/2 2.42g
9  ) PV/4 2g

Daniel
10) PV/29 2.13g
11) DRH/36 2.42g
Nicholas
12) PV/31 2.12g

PV/20 and PV/4 are way off the rest. He clearly wasn't using the term to mean the complete weight."

He was referring to bullet head weight

Nonsense they are all different weights and some considerably so, clearly he didn't mean they were all the original weight they were at the time fired.

[mike tesko]

You posted it.  You mixed a hodgepodge together out of sequence.  Some pages are from those who were interviewing police.  Other pages were clearly in the first person of the police so either were pocketbook entries or were statements given to COLP.  It should be spelled out what the source is not just jumble select pages from a bunch of stuff together. You should not complain about people failing to follow the materials when you do such. It is hard enough reading handwritten print when it is scanned as oppose to a photo taken and out of sequence.

Some of what was posted might be from his pocketbook, it is hard to tell. In a thread where you posted specifically about his pocketbook all you posted was the cover...

In any event  going back to WHF doesn't establish he took any exhibits. If he had taken 4 exhibits then the moderator from the family would have been SBJ/5 instead of SBJ/1.

These are allegations you made up from whole cloth you have zero evidentiary support.  There was moderator handed over to Taff Jones. Nor was there anything registered in the property books as being taken at WHF by Stan Jones. There never was any Exhibit marked SJ/1.  The first exhibit taken by Jones was conveyed to him from the family which is why it has the number 1 in it.

Your nonsense is all for nothing, if the moderator had been seized the first day that would have been fine there would be no need for the police to conceal such.  But they didn't take it it was left there and found by the family.  That's the only moderator that was owned by Nevill and only one at WHF there was only 1 moderator to find and it was found by the family and turned over to police on the 12th and sent to the lab on the 13th. That is when Jones turned it over to Cook and Cook assigned SBJ/1 to it.       

You have no evidence to refute any of this just silly allegations.


You have no evidence at all that this happened you simply made it up.

Everything you just wrote is entirely made up.  There is zero evidence of anything being labeled SJ/1 let alone a moderator.  There was only 1 moderator at WHF it was turned over on the 12th of August.  These wasn't any moderator turned over by the family in September.  You keep making a lot of allegations but have zero proof to support any of them and they are stupid allegations since there was only 1 moderator.  What moderator could the family have found if police took the only moderator on the day of the murders?  It is bad enough you are making things up without any evidentiary basis but worse you are making up things that make no sense.  Making thing sup without any evidentiary basis already makes the claims worthless but to make up ridiculous things makes one seriously wonder about you...

Jack lies and tells people that he previously lived in Hong Kong working for a financial firm.

Mike lies and tells people he just returned from a colony on Mars.

Instead of being like Jack you are being like Mike...

Lying is lying neither lie accomplishes anything but the latter either is lying as a joke or has severe problems.  If you want to be taken seriously stop being absurd.

This demonstrates how you are simply making up stupid crap from whole cloth.

He takes 4 items from WHF and labels 1 SJ/1 while he labels the others SBJ/2-4?  Yeah that makes sense...

What evidence do you have he took anything?  NONE!

What evidence do you have that something had been labeled SJ/1?  NONE!

What evidence do you have that something was handed over to Taff Jones and Jones kept it?  NONE!

Since there is no evidence where did these claims come from?  They were made up from whole cloth.

It doesn't matter how made up these stupid claims they are stupid made up claims totally lacking in evidentiary support and would not be alleged by anyone competent.

The only evidence that ACTUALLY exists demonstrates the items labeled SBJ/1-4 were taken August 12 and later.  Also evidence of only 1 moderators being at WHF at the time of the murders let alone found after. Making up things form whole cloth accomplishes nothing.

You have failed to provide evidence of this, post his COLP interview so we can see if you are lying further.

In any event this fails to salvage your claims. you claimed he stated he fired 27 rounds in one spot and 29 shortly thereafter.  You were not referring to some inference of him firing 29 rounds you claimed  he stated it in writing.  You were referencing his notes on both occasions.  You claimed in 1 spot it was 27 yet in another 29 and have not produced any evidence to back up either.  You were being inconsistent just like you are accusing Fletcher of being.  You can't spin your way out of it.

That someone engaging in nonsense is calling me a buffoon means nothing.  Just look at your response to my post, you are not even addressing it.  My point was that you are guilty of the same thing you are attacking Fletcher for.  He wrote he test fired 23 in one spot and you allege he wrote 27 in another. You wrote he test fired 27 in one spot and 29 in another.  So you did the same exact thing you screwed up your own claims by not being consistent.  Your attempt to wiggle out fails miserably.  You don't want ot admit you made the same mistake you accuse him of because then you would be admitting such a mistake is easy to make and doesn't amount to anything.  You tried to construct a giant conspiracy around it. 

Not regarding to the total number of rounds produced at trial for DRH/22. The number of fired and unfired rounds added up to 29.  There was no discrepancy.  You want to pretend some casings were missing so you could claim they were planted though none needed to be planted. You make up so much nonsense that not only do most of your fellow Jeremy supporters not even know what you are talking about you don't even end up knowing what you are talking about- you get lost in your own web.


The box and round inside it were a different exhibit- DRH/23

Offhand I don't know the number and it serves little purpose in looking it up since you have a hard enough problem dealing with the Lab reference number and police reference number, adding a third to the mix will just confuse you more.  In fact you are having a problem keeping track of the fact the box with the round inside was a different police/lab exhibit from the 29 cartridges next to the box. 

Nonsense.  If that were the case you would have claimed he wrote 23 but in his notes wrote 27 and in the COLP interview implied all 29 were fired. Seconds apart you wrote 23 and 27 and 23 and 29.  You screwed up and don't want to admit it because it shows how easy such a mistake is to make and why building a giant conspiracy around the error is absurd. 

More nonsense, the test fired rounds did exist still and were exhibits as were the unfired rounds.  Any lost after the trial are immaterial but again you refuse to post Fletcher's COLP interview and full trial testimony as well as the portion of the Dickinson report concerning these issues because they reveal you are full of crap.

You haven't produced evidence that establishes whether 23 were test fired or 27 thus we can't know which is the case and thus don't know whether 23 were test fired with 6 remaining unfired or 27 with only 2 remaining unfired.  You won't post his full testimony which would speak to such the portions of the Dickinson report that would speak to such or his COLP interview.  Sop all we know is that it was one or the other.  What we do know is that if the total fired and unfired combined didn't add up to 29 the defense would have questioned why.   So all your nonsense is for nothing.



They had no suspicions because nothing was missing, your allegations are an illogical mess and there  is zero evidence to support the allegations you keep making so wasn't any evidence at the time of trial either.


This is a perfect example of how you lie through your teeth about everything.  I states 27+ 2 not 27 + 6 or 23 + 6 not 23 + 2.  You just ignore reality and make up nonsense like your nonsense about a moderator being collected on August 7 and assigned SJ/1 and it sitting in DCI Jones possess for a long period.  You just make up any crap you feel like and expect such nonsense to be believed without question.  Lying just makes you a joke, maybe at some point you will face that but I doubt it you seem to be beyond help.


The sum is the same- 27+2=23+6   The sum in both cases is 29. 

The discrepancy is in your allegations- you have not established any genuine discrepancy yet.  You claimed in your allegations there were 4 too many and yet 2 too few, you can't make up your mind.  Earlier today you were even more off the wall and claimed he test fired 50.  You just make up anything you feel like without any regard to evidence and logic. You are as phoney as the Keebler Elves.

Evidence and logic demonstrate otherwise.

Whole, means Whole, no excuses are invited. How could a typo be the correct explanation considering he also referred to these same 12 control rounds as Whole in his hand written notes?

Whole has to be defined to know his meaning it doesn't necessarily mean the entire bullet was present not missing any fragments.  In the meantime the 12 bullets are not control bullets they were used in the murders. Control bullets are those he fired during testing.  You mix up everything.  In the meantime you have yet to produce evidence that in his notes he asserted he fired 27.  You previously posted notes that stated he fired 23 like he wrote in his statement.

You posted evidence and summarized it as follows:

"8 of these 29 control bullets were test fired by Fletcher on 20th September 1985
2 of these 29 control bullets were test fired by Fletcher on 25th September 1985
12 of these 29 control bullets were test fired by Fletcher on 1st October 1985
1 of these 29 control bullets was test fired by Fletcher on 2nd October 1985"

You constantly contradict yourself. What this demonstrates is that you end up deciding to lie and make up things forgetting you already posted the truth prior. 

 
All you are doing is making allegations- different allegations than you made in the past.  What you decide to "think" at any given moment is not proof.

You posted proof in the past that he claimed the following test firings:
"8 of these 29 control bullets were test fired by Fletcher on 20th September 1985
2 of these 29 control bullets were test fired by Fletcher on 25th September 1985
12 of these 29 control bullets were test fired by Fletcher on 1st October 1985
1 of these 29 control bullets was test fired by Fletcher on 2nd October 1985"

You have not produced anything to challenge this let alone support your wild claims of 50 fired total from a batch of 29 cartridges.

Nonsense they are all different weights and some considerably so, clearly he didn't mean they were all the original weight they were at the time fired.

You keep posting up comments as though I made them by including your own comments, and then making further comments as though you are responding to what I said, when all you are doing is responding to what you said yourself. You have a habit of attributing things you have said, as though somebody else said it, when they didn't...

This is one of a few dishonest tactics that you adopt frequently, where you seek to agree with yourself by attributing what you yourself said, as though others said it. Unless you make it clear, who said what I will not be responding to anything else you post up, I can't stand dishonest people who adopt these kinds of tactic, you are worse that a corrupt policeman, or public official...

[mike tesko]

Members and visitors should be wary of what 'Skippy' posts up, because he has a habit of including what he said himself, as though somebody else said it, then answering himself, on the pretense that he is only responding to what others have said. This approach can be very misleading, so be on your guard against this sort of dishonesty...

[scipio_usmc]

Members and visitors should be wary of what 'Skippy' posts up, because he has a habit of including what he said himself, as though somebody else said it, then answering himself, on the pretense that he is only responding to what others have said. This approach can be very misleading, so be on your guard against this sort of dishonesty...

You are projecting.  You distort to no end. By way of example here is what I wrote followed by your mischaracterization:

Scipio:"It makes no difference if the court exhibit featured 23 test fired rounds and 6 unfired rounds or 27 test fired rounds and 2 unfired rounds.  Either way the full 29 are accounted for and your claim they were planted somewhere else falls apart."

Mike: 27 test fired, and 6 unfired, totals 33. Alternatively, 23 test fired, and 2 unfired rounds totals 25, not 29 as you allege.

That is just one small example of how you distort everything.

I can provide countless examples of you making contradictory allegations and constantly changing your allegations and NONE of the allegation being base don any evidence.  For instance making up that there were 2 moderators taken from WHF one of which was SBJ/1 and the other SJ/1 even though there was never anything labeled SJ/1 and you keep changing whether the first one allegedly found was SJ/1 or the one handed over by the family.

Since you know the evidence Sheila didn't kill herself is unassailable you conjure up a ridiculous tale of police shooting her and moving her body around though they would have had no need to conceal shooting her.  In the meantime not only do you have zero evidence of your claims and simply made them up from whole cloth a great number of things proves your claims impossible.

For starters Vanezis pulled out a 22LR round and said the wound was consistent with a 22LR not a police round which is substantially larger and travels at 3 times the speed thus would have exited her neck.  Such police rounds are jacketed but no jacket was on the bullet recovered by Vanezis.  The xray matched the shape of the 22LR round produced at trial perfectly.  Posting a ridiculous made up story just makes you look pathetic.  It doesn't help your reputation or in any way help Jeremy.

Maybe one day you will wake up in the real World and stop with the wasted nonsense.   

Evidence talks unsupported claims like BS walks. 

[mike tesko]

I repeat the warning to all members that 'Skippy', is attributing what he himself has said, to other people as though they said what he said. If he himself does not remove the offendung qupte references, I will personally delete each of his posts which contain reference to his own misquoted comments. Please be awate that when membets quote something un another members name that what the other person said is clear and accurate. If this kind of deception continues I may have to impose a life time ban. We can't be seen to be condoning the use of fabricated information by these morons...

[mike tesko]

Fletcher Took part in two general test fires of the anshuzt rifle, where each test fire (a) and (b) was undertaken with a different purpose in mind. The former (a) was undertaken chiefly so as to produce sufficient ELEY cartridge cases (as many as 23) to manage the switch of the other manufacturers cartridge cases in the original batch of crime scene ammunition. What they did after Fletcher test fired the anshuzt 23 times, is that they used 14 of these, and did a dramatic swap. Once this was done, the reconfigured batch of 25 cartridge cases, were presented on the footing that all 25 bullets had been Eley manufactured rounds. In other words, it was presented as a one gun crime, with use of bullets from one batch of Eley ammunition....

But that proposition was / a false one...

Fletcher was aided in the cartridge case scam, by DS 'Stan' Jones, who countersigned the GENERAL EXAMINATION RECORDS, of all the dodgy substituted original cartridge cases, with the (a) earlier test fired ones. The 14 cartridge cases which were replaced were retained at the lab' under exhibit reference MDF/100....

[mike tesko]

Test fire (b) was commenced on the 20th September 1985, 25th September 1985, 1st October 1985, and the 2nd October 1985, with the specific intention of establishing that the reconfigured batch of crime scene ammunition and the later test fired (b) rounds had been fired from the same gun...

Once the comparison tests were completed, the scam had been completed, and everyone was left in no doubt, that the same gun fired all of the 25 shots...

[mike tesko]

In 2003 Keith Mallinson identified a feature of the blood found inside the sound moderator which had previously not been noted, or more significantly, explained away. Mallinson noted that blood had been found as far down as the void between baffles 5 and 6. In particular, that blood had been found on the back of baffle plate 5, but not on the upper surface of baffle plate 6. Mallinson has previously testified as an expert in a local suicide involving someone he knew personally. He had over 30 years experience in the field of firearms and ammunitions. He noted the presence of the last blood contaminated baffle was contaminated on the back face of the 5th baffle, in the void between baffles 5 and 6. This he stated, was a significant feature which helped him to understand how the blood inside the sound moderator, had got into the silencer. It may come as a shock to many of you, but Mallinson contends that the blood in the sound moderator, entered it from the bottom end of the silencer, not the top. He is convinced, nay he is adamant that Malcolm Fletchers backscatter theory was wrongly accepted as the phenomena responsible for Sheila's blood getting into the silencer. Mallinson states that had Fletchers backspatter theory been the correct explanation for how the blood got there, he says, blood would have to have entered the top end of the silencer, and that blood would have been deposited on the top surface of the last blood contaminated baffle plate, not the back surface of the same. According to Mallinson, blood in the sound moderator was forced in via the bottom end of the silencer, or in other words when the silencer had been screwed onto the barrel of a blood contaminated rifle barrel, and a live round fired in the gun with the sound moderator attached. He says that based on the position of blood on the back surface of baffle 5, blood was forced out of the barrel into the sound moderator, not the other way around...

[mike tesko]

This brings me back to the earlier (a) test fire of the rifle with 23 rounds, which Fletcher and another were involved in prior to the 12th September 1985...

[mike tesko]

This brings me back to the earlier (a) test fire of the rifle with 23 rounds, which Fletcher and another were involved in prior to the 12th September 1985...

And the timing of the official test fire (b) where Fletcher test fired 27 of the 29 control rounds, 2 rounds gone missing...

You can't have only 1 test fire (a) and declare you test fired 23 rounds in one breath, and that you test fired 27 rounds in another breath. Quite clearly, there were two separate test fires, one where Fletcher test fired 23 rounds, and another test fire where Fletcher test fired 27 rounds. Now, bearing in mind that if you add 23 to 27 it produces a full box of 50 rounds, how does this sit with the claim that there had been only 29 rounds in lab' item number (93)?

[scipio_usmc]

Fletcher Took part in two general test fires of the anshuzt rifle, where each test fire (a) and (b) was undertaken with a different purpose in mind. The former (a) was undertaken chiefly so as to produce sufficient ELEY cartridge cases (as many as 23) to manage the switch of the other manufacturers cartridge cases in the original batch of crime scene ammunition. What they did after Fletcher test fired the anshuzt 23 times, is that they used 14 of these, and did a dramatic swap. Once this was done, the reconfigured batch of 25 cartridge cases, were presented on the footing that all 25 bullets had been Eley manufactured rounds. In other words, it was presented as a one gun crime, with use of bullets from one batch of Eley ammunition....

But that proposition was / a false one...

Fletcher was aided in the cartridge case scam, by DS 'Stan' Jones, who countersigned the GENERAL EXAMINATION RECORDS, of all the dodgy substituted original cartridge cases, with the (a) earlier test fired ones. The 14 cartridge cases which were replaced were retained at the lab' under exhibit reference MDF/100....

They didn't need to switch any cases all 25 cases collected by police were 22LR Eley cases.  The test firing was done for legitimate purposes in order to prove the bullets and cases were fired by the Anschutz and that no weapon was used by a killer who removed it from the scene. 

Your fairytales are just that complete nonsense fairytales totally lacking in any evidentiary support.  You just make up allegations without any regard to logic or facts.