13 bullet cases in m/bedroom, yet no follower plate mark found on them...

[mike tesko]

Here - have a look at this, I believe you have been claiming that I have been making stories up about it. Funny how it is no longer a story:-

[mike tesko]

Obviously the number of cartridges that remained unfired would reveal which is correct.  The spent and unspent cartridges were a trial exhibit No, they weren't, they were test fired and introduced as part of the original batch of crime scene ammunition. along with the other evidence so the defense had every opportunity to figure out how many were test fired and how many remained. If he did make a typo in either his notes or his statement it is of little consequence.  This is a perfect example of how you just throw crap out to try to imply something sinister must have happened though you have no proof anything happened.  Proof is required, non-specific unsupported allegations don't accomplish a thing.

You are talking nonsense, as usual...

Anytime you do come up with specific claims thought ye are made up like your fairytale of Stan Jones going to WHF late at night on August 7 You idiot, I never said late at night, because he returned to the scene later that morning, leaving Jeremys cottage to go there and take four exhibits, one of which was one of the sound moderators.., collecting a moderator and asking Jeremy about this moderator with Taff Jones on August 9 Yes, absolutely true....  These are just fairytales you invented What a fucking idiot you are, . Most of the time you just want to try creating suspicion of police with claims like you just posted, some of which you make up but some of which is true but just amounts to innocent errors or even can be explained rationally in some other manner, which don't establish anything illicit happened you just use it to impugn the reputation of people and then say they must have been doing something crooked Framing an innocent man for killing his sister when he didn't is pure evil on the part of all those who pushed for that claim to be true and you make up crooked things you claim they did.

You don't even make up anything rational in the meantime. You make up off the wall things that are obviously bull and that many people can't even follow. Most of the claims I take the time to rebut a lot of people can't even understand what you are alleging. They don't realize where you are trying to go with your claims because they ultimately make no sense You like talking about what your really like don't you, you describe yourself perfectly....

If makes no difference how many cartridges Fletcher used for the testing Yes, it does- the number used and unused add up to 29 he says he test fired 23 cartridges in his only test, yet elsewhere he claims he fired 29 rounds, so which is it? You can't have experts not being able to do simpole arithmatic like adding up the number of cartridges he test fired, and then believe everything he said about use of the silencer in the shootings, the mans a barm pot  which is the grand total of unfired cartridges that made up the exhibit. It doesn't matter whether the exhibit displayed in court consisted of 23 spent cartridges and 6 unfired cartridges or 27 spent cartridges and 2 unfired cartridges. Of course it matters, barm pot, you can't magic up unfired cartridge cases and say these are the ones I didn't fire, when elsewhere he states that he fired 27 of the damn things, and that he did not know where two of them were, probably lost, Oh yeah, that old chestnut, "We lost it, em"...  Either way there is no way he would have extra cases he could pretend had been found by police elsewhere and police records reveal what they found and where so if he did try to make such up it would be easy to disprove. And it has been disproved, the crime scene ammunition was dodgy, it was not a one gun crime, and the 25 bullets fired came from more than one batch of .22 ammunition...

So even if true that there is a discrepancy between one note and his statement it doesn't mean squat- just like changing the prefix for the moderator doesn't mean squat- but given your past dishonestly I beg your pardon, rat face?   we don't even know if you made the whole thing up.

[mike tesko]

So, was the solitary Eley Round part of lab' item 51, or 93?

[mike tesko]

Here is some of Keith Mallinsons Work:-

[scipio_usmc]

Here - have a look at this, I believe you have been claiming that I have been making stories up about it. Funny how it is no longer a story:-

Why do you always change the subject?  This doesn't say how many cartridges were used for testing.

This suggests a drop of blood was found on a cartridge. It is hard enough to read if you had scanned it but instead you take a photo making it even more difficult to read.  It looks like there is a tape mark blocking some of the writing in the meantime what is up with that? The killer would have had blood on him so big deal if a bit dropped onto one the unused rounds when the killer brushed against it while grabbing the ones to reload.  All that proves it that if the killer had enough blood to transfer it to a cartridge then we would have found plenty of blood on Sheila if she had been the murderer. 

 

[scipio_usmc]

No, they weren't, they were test fired and introduced as part of the original batch of crime scene ammunition.

The exhibit consisted of the test fired ammo as well as the cartridges never fired even during testing the number of unfired and test fired added up to 29 which is the exact number that had been left in the kitchen unfired.

You idiot, I never said late at night, because he returned to the scene later that morning, leaving Jeremys cottage to go there and take four exhibits, one of which was one of the sound moderators..,

He didn't leave Goldhanger until late afternoon after all the statements were taken and then went back to the police station for the debriefing.

Framing an innocent man for killing his sister when he didn't is pure evil on the part of all those who pushed for that claim to be true

He was neither framed nor is innocent.  He was convicted because he was guilty as sin and that is why he will die in prison.

he says he test fired 23 cartridges in his only test, yet elsewhere he claims he fired 29 rounds, so which is it? You can't have experts not being able to do simpole arithmatic like adding up the number of cartridges he test fired, and then believe everything he said about use of the silencer in the shootings, the mans a barm pot

You can't even keep your story straight. You claimed his notes recorded that he test fired 27 rounds now you claim he test fired all 29.  You are complaining about his claims being inconsistent when yours never are.  There were 29 total cartridge cases that were taken into evidence as DRH/22.  The majority of these were test fired.  The trial exhibit added up to 29 still when combining those test fired and those not test fired.  So all were still accounted for.   

Of course it matters, barm pot, you can't magic up unfired cartridge cases and say these are the ones I didn't fire, when elsewhere he states that he fired 27 of the damn things, and that he did not know where two of them were, probably lost, Oh yeah, that old chestnut, "We lost it, em"...

It makes no difference if the court exhibit featured 23 test fired rounds and 6 unfired rounds or 27 test fired rounds and 2 unfired rounds.  Either way the full 29 are accounted for and your claim they were planted somewhere else falls apart.

And it has been disproved, the crime scene ammunition was dodgy, it was not a one gun crime, and the 25 bullets fired came from more than one batch of .22 ammunition...

You failed miserably at establishing the .22 ammunition used for the murders were different varieties (which is what you mean by different batches).  You also failed to establish anything dodgy about the evidence.   

 

[scipio_usmc]

Here is some of Keith Mallinsons Work:-

Why don't you shoot the pages from up in a tree- they would be just as hard to read.

Most modern printers are scanners you know...

All I can make out is that it concerns the loading of the magazine.

[scipio_usmc]

So, was the solitary Eley Round part of lab' item 51, or 93?

The solitary round was still in the plastic box and rather than separating it to combine with the other 29 cartridges they left it in the box and made it part of 51.  93 was the 29 cartridges that were sitting directly on the counter. The sheet above claims there was blood on one of the 29 cartridges that were part of 93. You didn't answer what was whited out. There are 2 different sections with whiteout.

[mike tesko]

Why do you always change the subject?  This doesn't say how many cartridges were used for testing.

This suggests a drop of blood was found on a cartridge. It is hard enough to read if you had scanned it but instead you take a photo making it even more difficult to read.  It looks like there is a tape mark blocking some of the writing in the meantime what is up with that? The killer would have had blood on him so big deal if a bit dropped onto one the unused rounds when the killer brushed against it while grabbing the ones to reload.  All that proves it that if the killer had enough blood to transfer it to a cartridge then we would have found plenty of blood on Sheila if she had been the murderer.

This is the solitary cartridge which elsewhere is described as lab' item no. 51...

Directly beneath where it is positioned in the kitchen photograph (on worktop) there was multiple spots of Ralph banners blood all over that part of the kitchen floor. It does not take a genius to work out that the spot of blood on this solitary cartridge, got there at the same time that Ralph's blood dripped on the floor directly beneath, this is in addition to his bloodied fingerprints being deposited on the edge of the worktop from his wounded left arm...

[mike tesko]

The exhibit consisted of the test fired ammo as well as the cartridges never fired even during testing the number of unfired and test fired added up to 29 which is the exact number that had been left in the kitchen unfired.

He didn't leave Goldhanger until late afternoon after all the statements were taken and then went back to the police station for the debriefing.


He was neither framed nor is innocent.  He was convicted because he was guilty as sin and that is why he will die in prison.

You can't even keep your story straight. You claimed his notes recorded that he test fired 27 rounds now you claim he test fired all 29.  You are complaining about his claims being inconsistent when yours never are.  There were 29 total cartridge cases that were taken into evidence as DRH/22.  The majority of these were test fired.  The trial exhibit added up to 29 still when combining those test fired and those not test fired.  So all were still accounted for.   

It makes no difference if the court exhibit featured 23 test fired rounds and 6 unfired rounds or 27 test fired rounds and 2 unfired rounds.  Either way the full 29 are accounted for and your claim they were planted somewhere else falls apart.

You failed miserably at establishing the .22 ammunition used for the murders were different varieties (which is what you mean by different batches).  You also failed to establish anything dodgy about the evidence.

No, it does not - if 23 were test fired as asserted by Fletcher in that witness statement there would have been 6 unfired rounds and 23 test fired rounds, as opposed to if he test fired 27 test fired cartridge cases, there would only have been 2 unfired rounds. The logistics don't add up. You are arguing that if Fletcher fired 23 test rounds there would only have been 2 unfired rounds, or that if he had test fired 27 test fired rounds there would still have been 6 unfired rounds, or vice versa. What you are trying to argue amounts to a paradox, it can't be true, because no matter which way you try to argue it, it basically does not fit in with the known and established facts...

[mike tesko]

The exhibit consisted of the test fired ammo as well as the cartridges never fired even during testing the number of unfired and test fired added up to 29 which is the exact number that had been left in the kitchen unfired. No, they did not, the two versions of how many test fired rounds Fletcher test fired ( 23, or 27) cannot be reconciled with what you yourself are trying to argue. For your argument to be true there would have needed to be 33 unfired piece of control ammunition on the kitchen worktop, plus one in the box. Bearing this in mind, how could there have been 29 and 33 loose bullets tipped out on the kitchen worktop at one and the same time? Fletcher has lied, and you are simply trying to find an excuse to justify why he has lied (good luck)...

He didn't leave Goldhanger until late afternoon after all the statements were taken read his COLP interview notes, then you'll see why what you are saying is hogwash and then went back to the police station for the debriefing. just goes to show how very little you know


He was neither framed nor is innocent.  He I agree with this, DS Jones has neither been framed, nor was he innocentb was convicted because he was guilty as sin and that is why he will die in prison. you evil, vile indidual.

You can't even keep your story straight. You claimed his notes recorded that he test fired 27 rounds now you claim he test fired all 29.  You No, pea brain, Fletcher said he test fired 23 control rounds from the 29, and he says he test fired 27 elsewhere, it is you now saying I said he test fired all 29, you are a baffoon are complaining about his claims being inconsistent when yours never are.  There I am merely drawing attention to the inconsistencies, the contradictions, and ambiguities, which upset people of the likes of yourself were 29 total cartridge cases that were taken into evidence as DRH/22.  The majority of these were test fired.  The trial exhibit added up to 29 still when combining those test fired and those not test fired. No, the trial exhibit did not add up, how can it have remained 29 cartridges, when either 23 or 27 were test fired, and those which were test fired were no longer complete cartridge cases? How could there be 6 unfired loose cartridges, and 2 unfired cartridges, at one and the same time? Impossible... So all were still accounted for.    No, Fletcher told COLP interviewers that 2 cartridges must have been lost, which further adds to the mystery

It makes no difference if the court exhibit featured 23 test fired rounds and 6 unfired rounds or 27 test fired rounds and 2 unfired rounds. Are you for real, of course it makes a difference, clearly the exhibit has been doctored, there was either 29 rounds, or 33, now which is it that you are applying your vast intellectual ability in favour of? Oh, I get it, you want it both ways, there was 29 loose cartridges amongst the overall total of 33 loose cartridges on the kitchen worktop. Well, matey, if that be the case then why weren't the COLP interviewers interested in the other unaccounted for 4 loose as yet unfired cartridges, in addition to the 2 they did take an interest in? If there were only 29 loose cartridge's, that means 4 additional rounds came from another source, in addition to the shot across Sheila's throat by Woodcock in the kitchen... Either way the full 29 are accounted for and your claim they were planted somewhere else falls apart. my claim stands tried and tested, there is nothing you can make up to shake it, good luck...

You failed miserably at establishing the .22 ammunition used for the murders were different varieties (which is what you mean by different batches) the variety in weight of all 12 WHOLE bullets linked to these shootings speaks for itself, Fletcher has lied, and everybody can see that he has and did, good luck trying to prove me wrong .  You also failed to establish anything dodgy about the evidence. So, why are you struggling to provide answers that make sense and add up?

[scipio_usmc]

This is the solitary cartridge which elsewhere is described as lab' item no. 51...

Directly beneath where it is positioned in the kitchen photograph (on worktop) there was multiple spots of Ralph banners blood all over that part of the kitchen floor. It does not take a genius to work out that the spot of blood on this solitary cartridge, got there at the same time that Ralph's blood dripped on the floor directly beneath, this is in addition to his bloodied fingerprints being deposited on the edge of the worktop from his wounded left arm...

No it's not, the solitary round from the box. That cartridge is part of 53. While the photo you took is difficult to read it clearly states it is one of the 29 cartridges from 93.

There were no bloody prints on the counter. If blood was dropped there it was dropped by the killer like on the bullet but there is no blood noted on the counter let alone bloody prints.

 

[scipio_usmc]

"It makes no difference if the court exhibit featured 23 test fired rounds and 6 unfired rounds or 27 test fired rounds and 2 unfired rounds.  Either way the full 29 are accounted for and your claim they were planted somewhere else falls apart."

No, it does not - if 23 were test fired as asserted by Fletcher in that witness statement there would have been 6 unfired rounds and 23 test fired rounds, as opposed to if he test fired 27 test fired cartridge cases, there would only have been 2 unfired rounds. The logistics don't add up.

They do add up you just repeated what I wrote though you are pretending you wrote something different than me. 

You are arguing that if Fletcher fired 23 test rounds there would only have been 2 unfired rounds, or that if he had test fired 27 test fired rounds there would still have been 6 unfired rounds, or vice versa. What you are trying to argue amounts to a paradox, it can't be true, because no matter which way you try to argue it, it basically does not fit in with the known and established facts...

Are you living in the Twilight Zone?  Where did I argue that there would have been only 2 unfired cartridges if he test fired 23?  I clearly stated 23 test fired and 6 unfired.  I clearly stated the total of test fired and unfired produced at trial totaled 29.

You have to lie about my posts to try to pretend there is a problem?  That doesn't help you in any way.I don't know why you are bothering with such babble. 

[scipio_usmc]

"The exhibit consisted of the test fired ammo as well as the cartridges never fired even during testing the number of unfired and test fired added up to 29 which is the exact number that had been left in the kitchen unfired."

No, they did not, the two versions of how many test fired rounds Fletcher test fired ( 23, or 27) cannot be reconciled with what you yourself are trying to argue. For your argument to be true there would have needed to be 33 unfired piece of control ammunition on the kitchen worktop, plus one in the box. Bearing this in mind, how could there have been 29 and 33 loose bullets tipped out on the kitchen worktop at one and the same time? Fletcher has lied, and you are simply trying to find an excuse to justify why he has lied (good luck)...

Where did you learn your math? Since when does 23+6 or 27+2 equal 33? They equal 29. 

"He didn't leave Goldhanger until late afternoon after all the statements were taken and then went back to the police station for the debriefing"

read his COLP interview notes, then you'll see why what you are saying is hogwash. just goes to show how very little you know

The COLP interview notes are not in order. There are pages talking about Jones in third person and then someone speaking in first person and it wasn't entirely clear the first person speaking is DS Jones.  In any event if he did go to WHF that doesn't establish he took anything.  Indeed he doesn't mention taking any exhibits and the only exhibits with his initials were from other dates including photos.  The first exhibit under his name was from the 13th of August and that was later changed to  DB/1.  If he already had 4 exhibits taken as you claim then the moderator turned over to Cook would have been SBJ/5 instead of 1.

"You can't even keep your story straight. You claimed his notes recorded that he test fired 27 rounds now you claim he test fired all 29."

No, pea brain, Fletcher said he test fired 23 control rounds from the 29, and he says he test fired 27 elsewhere, it is you now saying I said he test fired all 29, you are a baffoon.

Here are your own words:

"he says he test fired 23 cartridges in his only test, yet elsewhere he claims he fired 29 rounds, so which is it?"

I'm not a buffoon you don't even know what you are writing.  You clearly asserted he claimed he test fired 23 rounds in 1 spot and all 29 rounds in another spot.  Yet previous to this you wrote 23 and 27. You are attacking him for being inconsistent when you are doing the same thing. 

I am merely drawing attention to the inconsistencies, the contradictions, and ambiguities, which upset people of the likes of yourself

You are trying to create inconsistencies that don't exist.  DRH/22 consisted of 29 cartridges total. At the outset all 29 were unfired.  A majority of them were used for test firing so a majority of these 29 were spent casings and bullets by the time of the trial.  The number of unfired cartridges and those test fired added up to 29 there was no discrepancy like you are trying to pretend.  He may have test fired some subsequent to his statement.  He may have been wrong in his statement or wrong in his notes. He could have made the same error you just made.  You meant to say 27 and wrote 29. The only way there would be a problem would be if the court exhibit had less than 29 cartridges total counting the fired and unfired cartridges all together.  But that is not the case there were still 29 total so your efforts fall flat.   

"There were 29 total cartridge cases that were taken into evidence as DRH/22.  The majority of these were test fired.  The trial exhibit added up to 29 still when combining those test fired and those not test fired."

No, the trial exhibit did not add up, how can it have remained 29 cartridges, when either 23 or 27 were test fired, and those which were test fired were no longer complete cartridge cases? How could there be 6 unfired loose cartridges, and 2 unfired cartridges, at one and the same time? Impossible

The fired cartridges each consist of a spent bullet and casing, the unfired cartridges are still 1 unit each. The number of fired and unfired add up to 29 total.  I didn't claim there were 6 plus 2 unfired cartridges I said EITHER 6 or 2.  You intentionally keep trying to twist because you have zilch to support Jeremy and yet desperately want to pretend he was framed.

No, Fletcher told COLP interviewers that 2 cartridges must have been lost, which further adds to the mystery

Post evidence that he claimed two were lost at the time of the trial.  The defense would have noticed 2 cartridges missing and would have questioned him about it.

"It makes no difference if the court exhibit featured 23 test fired rounds and 6 unfired rounds or 27 test fired rounds and 2 unfired rounds."

Are you for real, of course it makes a difference, clearly the exhibit has been doctored, there was either 29 rounds, or 33, now which is it that you are applying your vast intellectual ability in favour of? Oh, I get it, you want it both ways, there was 29 loose cartridges amongst the overall total of 33 loose cartridges on the kitchen worktop. Well, matey, if that be the case then why weren't the COLP interviewers interested in the other unaccounted for 4 loose as yet unfired cartridges, in addition to the 2 they did take an interest in? If there were only 29 loose cartridge's, that means 4 additional rounds came from another source, in addition to the shot across Sheila's throat by Woodcock in the kitchen...

Clearly math is not your strong suit. There were 29 total sitting on the counter and 1 in the tray.  Of the 29 on the counter the bulk were test fired.  The remainder remained unfired.  The number test fired and that remained unfired combined added up to 29.  There is no discrepancy except in your mind.   There wasn't 33 and thus wasn't 4 extra.  In the meantime seconds ago you claimed 2 were missing now you are claiming 4 extra.  You are all over the place.

"Either way the full 29 are accounted for and your claim they were planted somewhere else falls apart."

my claim stands tried and tested, there is nothing you can make up to shake it, good luck...

Your claims are contradictory and fell apart. You claimed there were 2 cartridges lost and yet 4 extra cartridges.  You have no clue what you are talking about.  There were 29 total in the exhibit. Your efforts all fall apart completely including your absurd claim about 1 of the bullets being .223/5.56mm.   

You failed miserably at establishing the .22 ammunition used for the murders were different varieties (which is what you mean by different batches)"

the variety in weight of all 12 WHOLE bullets linked to these shootings speaks for itself, Fletcher has lied, and everybody can see that he has and did, good luck trying to prove me wrong

His chart which contained the word whole for some clearly didn't mean whole in the sense of the full weight of the unfired bullet. If he intended whole to mean such then his chart contains errors because clearly some were not even close. It is possible his statement did contain typos in that regard.   The burden is on you to prove Fletcher lied and that evidence was doctored not for me to disprove it.  You have not proven such except in your wildest dreams.

These are supposedly the weights of the 12 bullet she referred to as whole:

Sheila
1  ) PV/19 2.16g
2  ) PV/20  1.54g

June
3  ) PV/23 2.29g
4  ) PV/24 2.42g
5  ) DRH/35a 2.43g
6  ) DRH/35b 2.44g

Nevill
7  ) DRH/5 2.42g
8  ) PV/2 2.42g
9  ) PV/4 2g

Daniel
10) PV/29 2.13g
11) DRH/36 2.42g
Nicholas
12) PV/31 2.12g

PV/20 and PV/4 are way off the rest. He clearly wasn't using the term to mean the complete weight.

"You also failed to establish anything dodgy about the evidence."
So, why are you struggling to provide answers that make sense and add up?

I'm not struggling in the least. You are the one making up stupid stories that make no sense or evidentiary support about bullets being switched and casings being switched and police shooting Sheila then moving her body and so much more and struggling to find  away to pretend these ridiculous things could be true.

I'm just following the evidence where it leads I don't have to break a sweat.  Since you are providing a revisionist account you bear the burden of proof I can rest on the proof used at trial.  You have not come even remotely close to meeting your burden.  I could make up more rational conspiracy claims than you do but naturally am not going to bother. 

[mike tesko]

No it's not, the solitary round from the box Yes, it is - it was not one of the 29 loose bullets, you are barmy even trying to suggest it is, or it was, none of the loose 29 cartridges had a spot of dripped blood on them, but the solitary cartridge in the box did. What we have here is someone at the lab' deliberately contaminating item 93 with use of another exhibit (part of lab' item no. 51. It was done by somebody so that fletcher could make that reference in one of his witness statements that part of 51, and 93 were ELEY type cartridges. Once you know that the solitary bullet in part of 51, has been presented as 93, it becomes easy to see why Fletcher was able to refer to the other 29 loose cartridges as Eley types, by thrusting item 93, and part of 51 being an unfired ELEY cartridge . That cartridge is part of 53. While the photo you took is difficult to read it clearly states it is one of the 29 cartridges from 93. No, it does not mention anywhere at all on that lab' form, anything at all about that solitary bullet being part of the other 29 loose rounds. You are just making up nonsense for the sake of pretending Fletcher and DS Jones, didn't tamper with the crime scene ammunition, the sound moderator, and that both of the reprobates turn the investigation upside down by presenting false ballistic evidence so that they could turn it into a one gun crime...

There were no bloody prints on the counter. Yes, there was, everybody can see it as clear as day. Your argument is a foolish gesture trying to pretend this and that, in the same way you and others of your elk have been saying all along that there was no blood on the soles of Sheila's feet, no blood on her hands, no blood on her arms, you say she had no injuries or marks at all on her arms, or her body, but we have all seen the photographic evidence, she had blood on the soles of her feet, she had blood on her hands, and she had blood on her arms, and her nightdress, front and rear. Its about time you lot retired from making up nonsense like this If blood was dropped there it was dropped by the killer like on the bullet but there is no blood noted on the counter let alone bloody prints.