13 bullet cases in m/bedroom, yet no follower plate mark found on them...

[mike tesko]

It took until the 13th November 1985 (3 months after the shootings) for Fletcher to refer to cartridges being of Eley make, in a witness statement. Fletcher himself says in this version of his witness statement that he did not receive lab'item number (93) until 20th September 1985, so once again it sheds some light onto what had been going on behind the scenes. Lastly, lab' items 24 to 44 inclusive, and 47, 48, only amount to 24 cartridge cases, again evidence that at least one other type of cartridge case belonged to one of the shots fired by police (refer Officers report regarding the shooting incident in the kitchen) which Fletcher appears to have been hell bent in keeping out of the equation. This missing 25th cartridge case, being associated with the police shooting of Sheila in the kitchen downstairs, the details of which are covered in a police Report, mentioned elsewhere entitled, "The shooting incident in the kitchen"...

[scipio_usmc]

Well, first of all, it would of course help if you had a better understanding of the Queens English, because Fletcher is referring only to "(part of 51), and (93)"...

Item 51 - DRH/23 was a cartridge and box
Item 93 - was in fact one Eley cartridge, with a spot of blood upon it (later altered into 29 cartridges). If you add the original item 93 to the 23 cartridges that Fletcher test fired in rifle (18), it produces a total of 24, which is one bullet short of the 25 in total which were fired during the shootings. The 25th bullet fired was in fact police ammunition...

So, your claim that all 25 bullets fired during the shootings belonged to the same batch of Eley ammunition, by drawing attention to what is mentioned in this statement extract, proves no such thing, since the 25 cartridge cases recovered from the scene, had the following lab' item numbers:-

24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 47 and 48...

None of these cartridge cases had a lab' iem number of (part 51), and or (93), so you appear to have got your knickers in a twist once again...

93 was the 29 unfired casings on the kitchen counter.  51 was the plastic box and single round inside that was on the kitchen counter with the looses bullets next to it.  He said these were all Eley subsonic Hollow points.  Then after after that he wrote:

"The twenty-five fired cartridge cases ... are the same type as the cartridge cases used in the cartridges (part of 51) and (93)."  The same means also Eley cartridge cases.

This means the same thing in the Queen's English as it does in American English.   

[mike tesko]

93 was the 29 unfired casings on the kitchen counter. No 51 was the plastic box and single round No inside that was on the kitchen counter with the looses bullets next to it.  He said these were all Eley subsonic Hollow points.  Then after after that he wrote: he doesn't mean what your trying to suggest

"The wenty-five fired cartridge cases ... are the same type as the cartridge cases used in the cartridges (part of 51) and (93)."  The same means also Eley cartridge cases I beg to differ, he is referring only to the solitary loose round (part of 51) and the loose Eley round which was originally (93)... .

This means the same thing in the Queen's English as it does in American English.    I honestly dont think so, in this unstance

[scipio_usmc]

It took until the 13th November 1985 (3 months after the shootings) for Fletcher to refer to cartridges being of Eley make, in a witness statement. Fletcher himself says in this version of his witness statement that he did not receive lab'item number (93) until 20th September 1985, so once again it sheds some light onto what had been going on behind the scenes. Lastly, lab' items 24 to 44 inclusive, and 47, 48, only amount to 24 cartridge cases, again evidence that at least one other type of cartridge case belonged to one of the shots fired by police (refer Officers report regarding the shooting incident in the kitchen) which Fletcher appears to have been hell bent in keeping out of the equation. This missing 25th cartridge case, being associated with the police shooting of Sheila in the kitchen downstairs, the details of which are covered in a police Report, mentioned elsewhere entitled, "The shooting incident in the kitchen"...

As usual you lie.  It took until the cases were analyzed by the lab to determine they were Eley.  Each case has an individual sheet associated and each sheet shows the Eley E on the bottom of the casing.

In November is when Fletcher finally wrote up his first statement he didn't write prior statements on the cases and bullets so that is why it is the first statement discussing them.

[scipio_usmc]

93 was the 29 unfired casings on the kitchen counter. No 51 was the plastic box and single round No inside that was on the kitchen counter with the looses bullets next to it.  He said these were all Eley subsonic Hollow points.  Then after after that he wrote: he doesn't mean what your trying to suggest

"The wenty-five fired cartridge cases ... are the same type as the cartridge cases used in the cartridges (part of 51) and (93)."  The same means also Eley cartridge cases I beg to differ, he is referring only to the solitary loose round (part of 51) and the loose Eley round which was originally (93)... .

Your desperation to spin is all too clear and it is not working.  I fell once for the BS of a supporter that the Queen's English is so different from American English that I failed to comprehend what was being said.  I don't fall for the same trick twice.

This means the same thing in the Queen's English as it does in American English.    I honestly dont think so, in this unstance

This sentence means exactly what it says: "The twenty-five fired cartridge cases ... are the same type as the cartridge cases used in the cartridges (part of 51) and (93)." 

[mike tesko]

You haven't established there is such an exhibit let just think about it for a moment, why would there be very little mention of these 14 cartridge cases which formed part of the investigation, kept at Huntingdon Lab' under the exhibit reference of MDF/100? alone what exhibit they were originally part of. since you make up claims about sea police Southend on Sea police station is like any other police station, it is based on land, not on the sea, as you seem to think and other things there is no reason to believe anything you say without solid proof.  That is a byproduct of making up things- lack of trust.

[mike tesko]

Now, despite what you think, I am not trying to catch anybody out, or make anybody believe what they are not capable Of believing in, for one reason or another. But like so many things in this case, nothing fits Perfectly, there exists alternative version, contained in documents and photographs. The solitary Eley cartridge is but one example, it is presented in places as being part of lab'item 51, and lab' item number 93 - both can't be right...

This duplication of items, lab' item numbers, and exhibit references. It's got the same modus operandi, someone has clearly orchestrated the evidence and presented it in such a way to help convict an innocent man of killing, first and foremost his sister, a murder he did not and could not have committed. How could he have shot Sheila downstairs in the kitchen, an incident covered by a police report about the shooting incident in the kitchen...

How utterly unconvincing it is, that all 25 rounds used in the shooting of the 5 victims were from the same batch of Eley .22 ammunition - yeah, a likely story...

[mike tesko]

Descriptions of the 25 cartridge cases recorded in the Major Incident Property Register  did not refer to them as Eley types...

5 victims shot and killed, one by one the bodies of these 5 victims were disposed of, without Essex police, or any ballistic expert, identifying the type of rounds used, or how many guns fired those bullets - they disposed of the bodies, at a time when police accepted that Sheila had killed the other 4 victims. Can you believe it that not until mid to late September 1985, was anybody remotely interested in what type of bullets had been used in the shootings, or which guns were used in the same act? You do not wait a month after the disposal of the bodies without identifying the bullets and the weapons used...

[mike tesko]

Let's dig a little deeper...

Now, lab' item 93 is supposed to have been in one version of the evidence, the solitary Eley cartridge, yet in another the same solitary Eley cartridge case, was part of lab' item number 51. This is confusing since police also claimed the 29 cartridges also had the lab' item number 93. But how can the solitary Eley round be lab' item number 93, yet at the same time as the 29 loose cartridges also be lab' item number 93? If the solitary Eley round (93), was added to the 29 loose bullets, there would have been 30 loose bullets, but there wasn't, and there isn't...

Worse still, According to Fletchers witness statement, dated, 13 November 1985, he only test fired 23 of these 29 / 30 cartridges, but this does not correspond with his official test fire hand written notes, relating to to so called Official test fire of the anshuzt rifle, sound moderator, and the batch of 29 so called control rounds, of which incidentally only 27 were test fired between 20th September, and the 2nd October 1985...

Funny how Fletcher says in his statement that he test fired 23 control bullets, yet in his hand written schedule it states he test fired 27, why is there a difference of 4 test fired bullets? What happened to the other 2 control rounds? Fletcher told the COLP investigators that they must have been lost somewhere along the way - oh, yeah, another likely story....

[scipio_usmc]

You haven't established there is such an exhibit let just think about it for a moment, why would there be very little mention of these 14 cartridge cases which formed part of the investigation, kept at Huntingdon Lab' under the exhibit reference of MDF/100? alone what exhibit they were originally part of. since you make up claims about sea police Southend on Sea police station is like any other police station, it is based on land, not on the sea, as you seem to think and other things there is no reason to believe anything you say without solid proof.  That is a byproduct of making up things- lack of trust.

There is no mention of a MDF 100 because it is fictional just as is the claim sea police were investigating the case.

[mike tesko]

As usual you lie.  It of course, you would say that wouldn't you? But sadly your so wrong, again, and again, and again took until the cases were analyzed by the lab to determine they were Eley Of course, police just rushed to allow disposal of the victims bodies, and then they set about making this into a one gun, one batch of ammunition crime .  Each case has an individual sheet associated received at the lab' on the 30th August 1985, yet the earliest date on these individual lab'  records is dated 11th September 1985. What happened to this ammunition in the interim period between 30th August and the 11th September1985, and each sheet shows the Eley E on the bottom of the casing Which came into existence on and after 12th September 1985 - What happened to the original crime scene ammunition during that unaccounted for missing 12 day period? It was during this mysterious missing 12 day period, that Fletcher and others carried out the 'Unofficial test fire' of the anshuzt rifle, sound moderator, and replacement Eley control ammunition, which replaced other types of .22 ammunition actually used in the shootings... .

In November is when Fletcher finally wrote up his first statement he didn't write prior statements on the cases and bullets, he carried out 'unofficial test fires', between 30th August and 12th September 1985, followed by his so called 'Official test fire', between 20th September and 2nd October 1985. We don't have a proper record of the first unofficial test fire, but we do of the official test fire. Significantly, the number of control rounds fired in the so called official test fire, differ considerably between Fletchers witness statement version dated the 13th November 1985, when compared against the number of control rounds fired as recorded in Fletchers hand written notes, he states he test fired 23 control rounds in his witness statement, 4 control rounds less than he records in his hand written notes. Added to this, is the fact that when questioned by the COLP investigators as to the whereabouts of the other missing two control rounds, Fletcher told them that they must have been lost... so that is why it is the first statement discussing them logistics simply don't add up, Fletcher has lied....

[mike tesko]

There is no mention of a MDF 100 because it is fictional Stop talking daft, of course the 14 cartridge cases bearing the exhibit reference MDF/100 exists just as is the claim sea police were investigating the case Eden was the suspect, in those separate investigations, truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth

[Jane]

There is no mention of a MDF 100 because it is fictional just as is the claim sea police were investigating the case.

In case you don't know -a highly UNlikely occurrence, I'm sure- MDF is medium density fibreboard and the police force of Southend on Sea has no more to do WITH the sea than that it's a town situated BY the sea. They don't have a separate sea force of their own.

[mike tesko]

So, we have Fletcher, the prosecutions ballistic expert telling porkies about (a) when he test fired the anshuzt rifle, sound moderator and Eley control ammunition, (b) the number of control rounds fired (23 in his statement) as opposed to 27 in his hand written notes, (c) he described the badly fragmented bullet (PV/20), as a WHOLE BULLET, just so police could try to cover up the shooting of Sheila by police in the kitchen...

[mike tesko]

A total of 14 cartridge cases were exchanged in the switch, involving a total of 14 non Eley cartridge cases, with 14 Eley control rounds. The 14 non Eley cartridge cases were placed in storage at Huntingdon Lab', under an exhibit reference of MDF/100. In 2003 ballistic expert, Renshaw, confirmed in writing that he could carry out unique tests on these 14 cartridge cases held at Huntingdon, to see whether any of them had been fired through a sound moderator, but Renshaw wanted another couple of thousand pounds in fees, which Jeremy was reluctant to pay...