13 bullet cases in m/bedroom, yet no follower plate mark found on them...

[mike tesko]

Yes, she shot June in the main bedroom, then entered the twins room, and killed them both with a solitary shot a piece. She then returned to the main bedroom and shot June Bamber dead with the 8th bullet. She was confronted by Ralph in the main bedroom and shot at him, the 9th bullet penetrated his left arm, and Ralph fled downstairs to the kitchen where he contacted Jeremy very briefly, before phoning the police as per the contents of the 3.25am phone call log contents, " My daughter has got one of my guns"...

Sheila went downstairs to the kitchen in the knowledge that she had already killed her two children and mother...
The very last bullet from the first full load of the rifle, also brought a sudden end to Ralph Bambers life...

[scipio_usmc]

Yes, she shot June in the main bedroom, then entered the twins room, and killed them both with a solitary shot a piece. She then returned to the main bedroom and shot June Bamber dead with the 8th bullet. She was confronted by Ralph in the main bedroom and shot at him, the 9th bullet penetrated his left arm, and Ralph fled downstairs to the kitchen where he contacted Jeremy very briefly, before phoning the police as per the contents of the 3.25am phone call log contents, " My daughter has got one of my guns"...

Sheila went downstairs to the kitchen in the knowledge that she had already killed her two children and mother...
The very last bullet from the first full load of the rifle, also brought a sudden end to Ralph Bambers life...

All you are doing is repeating the same nonsense that is refuted by the evidence instead of following the evidence.

Aside from the fact 4 casings associated with 4 gunshots wounds Nevill suffered were in the master bedroom, the bullet that grazed him was found there.  I the meantime if Sheila had shot people Nevill's priorities at that point would have been 1) to disarm her or otherwise stop her;
2)to call for an ambulance there is no way he would have phoned Jeremy and if he had phoned Jeremy after shooting started he would have mentioned she was shooting and have said call an ambulance. .

The graze wound would not have inhibited his ability to disarm Sheila, if that was his only wound the killer would have been disarmed regardless of whether it was Jeremy or Sheila.  Your scenario makes no sense on any level and is refuted by the evidence.  As pointed out by you the official account which I present could have been done by either of them.  However, since that account leaves not room for a phone call to Jeremy you have to distort the order of the shots and locations in order to pretend that a phone call was possible.  But making up that the call came after shots were fired is not credible in the least you need to stick with making up scenarios where the call preceded any shots.

[mike tesko]

Ralph Bamber was not shot four times whilst present in the bedroom, he was shot six times whilst present in the kitchen...

[mike tesko]

4 cartridge cases, originally found in the kitchen, were hypothetically transferred to the main bedroom - these 4 cartridges related to the shooting of Ralph (3), and Sheila (1) in the kitchen...

[scipio_usmc]

4 cartridge cases, originally found in the kitchen, were hypothetically transferred to the main bedroom - these 4 cartridges related to the shooting of Ralph (3), and Sheila (1) in the kitchen...

Complete and total nonsense. The only shots suffered in the kitchen by Nevill were 4 shots to his head after he was knocked unconscious. The gun was empty when they fought in the kitchen and he had to be knocked unconscious in order for the killer to be able to reload.

Your wild claims about casings being moved etc have no support at all you made them up from whole cloth. Just like your made up claim that Jeremy loaded a bullet into the chamber by hand instead of loading it through the magazine. You ignore all reality including refusing to use Jeremy's own.  Making things up is easy but pointless because it is easy to see when things are made up and no one pays any attention to such things the existing record consists of what was presented in court.

[mike tesko]

Complete and total nonsense. The only shots suffered in the kitchen by Nevill were 4 shots to his head after he was knocked unconscious. The gun was empty when they fought in the kitchen and he had to be knocked unconscious in order for the killer to be able to reload.

Your wild claims about casings being moved etc have no support at all you made them up from whole cloth. Just like your made up claim that Jeremy loaded a bullet into the chamber This is typical of how you alter or change what has been said, since I did not say that Jeremy had loaded one round manually into the chamber of the rifle, I said that somebody could have, or did.. by hand instead of loading it through the magazine. You ignore all reality including refusing to use Jeremy's own.  Making things up is easy but pointless because it is easy to see when things are made up So why do you keep doing it - its about time that you practiced what you preached and no one pays any attention to such things the existing record consists of what was presented in court.

[mike tesko]

Now, it is very interesting to note by reference to the GENERAL EXAMINATION RECORDS for each of the 25 Eley cartridge cases that the length and dimensions of them are not mentioned at all. It should be noted, that Eley produced or manufactured different types of .22 rim fire ammunition back in 1984, including 29 grain, 35 grain, 37.5 grain and 40 grain ammunition. How very odd, that Fletcher makes no reference at all to the type of bullets any of these 25 cartridge cases were part of, nor does he mention the grain weight of each when the casings had been part of a full manufacturers round?

It is not sufficient just to refer to these 25 cartridge cases as simply 'Eley' make, since different types of cartridge cases were manufactured by different .22 ammunition manufacturers, including Eley...

Different weighted .22 bullets had cartridge cases of different size and dimensions, and I suggest that the absence of any measurements alongside each of these 25 cartridge cases, significantly weakens the claim that all of them, individually or collectively refer to one type of the same Eley batch. On the contrary, absence of such key measurements depicting the size and dimension of these 25 Eley cartridge cases substantially weakens the argument that they formed part of the same type of Eley .22 ammunition...

[mike tesko]

This is one of the key weaknesses of the prosecutions ballistic evidence, quite simply they did not establish the type of .22 ammunition to which each of these 25 Eley cartridge cases, individually or collectively, corresponded to...

For all we know, some of these 25 Eley cartridge cases could have been significantly different in size and dimension, which means that if true bullets from different type of Eley .22 RF ammunition had been used. That being the case, then the .22 Eley ammunition used in the shootings could not possibly have originated from the same batch purchased by Ralph Bamber in November 1984 - there had to have been another contributing source...

[scipio_usmc]

This is typical of how you alter or change what has been said, since I did not say that Jeremy had loaded one round manually into the chamber of the rifle, I said that somebody could have, or did..

I didn't alter anything.  Let's go to the videotape:

Scipio: Jeremy claims that he loaded the top cartridge into the magazine twice.  He claims he loaded it the magazine, chambered a round, removed the magazine, ejected the cartridge and loaded it back into the magazine a second time.   So if his claims were true then he would have caused it to have 2 sets of loading marks and that leaves only 4 used in the murders that could have loading marks prior to the rabbit event.  So you are still 1 short.

Mike:
It is much more likely that if Jeremy later removed a round from the rifles chamber, that it had been manually loaded into the gun not forced in through the magazine mechanism, so if this very same round had in fact been fired during the shootings, then it would only have 1 set of marks, plus chamber marks unique to the manual loading process, rather have been loaded into the chamber by the magazine mechanism

-------

Your claim is contradicted by Jeremy's own claims and worse it is absurd and shows how you just make up nonsense.  Why would it be likely let alone more likely someone would load a cartridge manually into the chamber?  Who does that?  I have never loaded a round into the chamber manually into any of my semi-automatic pistols or rifles.  The only reason I would would be if the magazine were damaged and I needed to use it to defend myself so loaded it manually but would only have 1 shot I could fire so I would have to be very careful in its use.

You made it up to try to avoid reality. That reality is that Jeremy claims he was responsible for 1 of the rounds being double loaded which makes your claim there were 5 twice-loaded rounds in it before he even picked it up impossible.  You also ignored the reality that if 5 cartridges had been loaded into the weapon and left there then they would have been loaded only a single time.

I haven't misrepresented a thing, I simply scrutinized your actual claims and those claims don't hold up. 

[scipio_usmc]

Now, it is very interesting to note by reference to the GENERAL EXAMINATION RECORDS for each of the 25 Eley cartridge cases that the length and dimensions of them are not mentioned at all. It should be noted, that Eley produced or manufactured different types of .22 rim fire ammunition back in 1984, including 29 grain, 35 grain, 37.5 grain and 40 grain ammunition. How very odd, that Fletcher makes no reference at all to the type of bullets any of these 25 cartridge cases were part of, nor does he mention the grain weight of each when the casings had been part of a full manufacturers round?

It is not sufficient just to refer to these 25 cartridge cases as simply 'Eley' make, since different types of cartridge cases were manufactured by different .22 ammunition manufacturers, including Eley...

Different weighted .22 bullets had cartridge cases of different size and dimensions, and I suggest that the absence of any measurements alongside each of these 25 cartridge cases, significantly weakens the claim that all of them, individually or collectively refer to one type of the same Eley batch. On the contrary, absence of such key measurements depicting the size and dimension of these 25 Eley cartridge cases substantially weakens the argument that they formed part of the same type of Eley .22 ammunition...

Before you lie and make things up you should actually research a topic.

At the time of the murders all 22LR cases were the same length. This changed only recently when 60 grain 22LR bullets were created.  In order for the overall cartridge size to be small enough not to have problems they had to reduce the size of the case.

22 short is not the same cartridge as 22LR that is why the case is different and 22 short is not the variety of cartridge used by the Anschutz.

You keep sticking your foot in your mouth. 

[scipio_usmc]

This is one of the key weaknesses of the prosecutions ballistic evidence, quite simply they did not establish the type of .22 ammunition to which each of these 25 Eley cartridge cases, individually or collectively, corresponded to...

For all we know, some of these 25 Eley cartridge cases could have been significantly different in size and dimension, which means that if true bullets from different type of Eley .22 RF ammunition had been used. That being the case, then the .22 Eley ammunition used in the shootings could not possibly have originated from the same batch purchased by Ralph Bamber in November 1984 - there had to have been another contributing source...

All you are doing is ignoring the evidence and reality.  The Anschutz rifle is chambered in 22LR.  The 25 cases were all 22LR cases.  The trial testimony was that they were the same casings as the unfired cartridges which were at WHF.  You can't help but stick your foot in your mouth.

 

[scipio_usmc]

This shows the dimensions of 22LR next to a .22 Stinger.  The 22 Stinger can be ignored it is a larger cartridge:



another look:



The middle is the 22LR while the 4th is 22 short:



The Anshutz is chambered in 22LR and that is what was purchased for it.  Nevill didn't buy any 22 short ammo, and didn't own anything chambered in 22 short.  Constantly bringing up 22 short is a red herring.

[mike tesko]

Police submitted unidentified cartridge cases to the lab' at Huntingdon, on 30th August 1985, which by the 12 September 1985, had all become turned into 25 Eley manufactured cartridge cases...

[scipio_usmc]

Police submitted unidentified cartridge cases to the lab' at Huntingdon, on 30th August 1985, which by the 12 September 1985, had all become turned into 25 Eley manufactured cartridge cases...

Police didn't note any cartridges being different from others. The only ammunition at WHF was shotgun shells, pellets and 22lr rimfire cartridges. The pellet gun and shotguns were not used in the murders only the Anschutz chambered in 22lr was so the fact only 22lr casings were found is totally expected. A different weapon being used which had been removed from the scene would give away that it was a mass murder staged as suicide murder.  Police would have been wary had casings of a different kind been found.

[mike tesko]

On the 30th August 1985, Essex police submitted a batch of cartridge cases to the Lab' which were not identified as Eley cartridges. Yet by 12th September, they were being referred too as all being Eley type. What happened between 30th August and the 12th September, which transformed different types of .22 cartridge cases, into Eley ones...