13 bullet cases in m/bedroom, yet no follower plate mark found on them...

[Caroline]

No, not neccessarily. We are just speculating why she moved around the room. One explanation is as good as the other, we don´t know. All we know is that she moved around.

We're speculating about everything and in your own words, given that one explanation is as good as another, my explanation is as good as any other so not sure what you're getting at/commenting on?

[mike tesko]

What I don't get, is why didn't the killer make sure that June was killed before the shooter left the main bedroom - if Jeremy had been the killer, why didn't he finish June off, before he left the bedroom?

It simply doesn't make sense, if Jeremy was the killer, because Ralph Bamber surely would have been his main target - so why waste 5 bullets on June in the main bedroom?

[Jane]

It simply doesn't make sense, if Jeremy was the killer, because Ralph Bamber surely would have been his main target - so why waste 5 bullets on June in the main bedroom?

Because he was acting proxy of the mind set he imagined would have been Sheila's if she'd "gone mad and has the gun."

[Alias]

What I don't get, is why didn't the killer make sure that June was killed before the shooter left the main bedroom - if Jeremy had been the killer, why didn't he finish June off, before he left the bedroom?

Maybe he thought he had? Or lack of bullets?

[lookout]

Strange how the bullet numbers are in 3's and 5's equalling 8.

3 in one child,5 in the other=8
Neville=8
All excepting June who had 7. ?

3 and 5 having a significance in religion and witchcraft.

The Devil tempted Jesus 3 times.
There are 3 Synoptic Gospels and 3 Epistles of John. ( Matthew,Mark and Luke )

[scipio_usmc]

It simply doesn't make sense, if Jeremy was the killer, because Ralph Bamber surely would have been his main target - so why waste 5 bullets on June in the main bedroom?

Jeremy's claim he received a phone call screwed him in many ways.  One way it was a problem was that in order to claim Nevill phoned him he could not kill Nevill in bed. He had to wait for Nevill to get up or at least begin to get out of bed.  How can someone killed in his sleep have phoned him?

They were moving around, he had a problem effectively targeting them and thus he expended the full magazine without fully immobilizing them. June's wounds were so severe she did not get far.  Nevill on the other hand wasn't immobilized by his wounds and that resulted in the fight in the kitchen.

So this fight is directly attributable to him running out of ammo before immobilizing Nevill.  This fight screwed him because if Sheila had engaged in such a fight with Nevill she would have had evidence on her body and clothing from it but she didn't.  So his choices had various repercussions. 

 

[lookout]

Because June and Sheila focussed on the Bible,why not use logic in that direction ? Instead of Jeremy-Bashing all the time. There's more than one way to skin a cat !

[scipio_usmc]

Because June and Sheila focussed on the Bible,why not use logic in that direction ? Instead of Jeremy-Bashing all the time. There's more than one way to skin a cat !

If you want to go in that direction the Bible was clearly planted after Sheila was murdered. It was opened and closed while it had blood on it and was placed in a pool of blood that formed after Sheila's death.

Rational people look at evidence that actually has the ability to say whether someone committed a crime or not.  That means the most important evidence is that evidence which would exist if Sheila had in fact killed anyone else and evidence of whether she could have killed herself.  That objective evidence proves she can't have killed herself and didn't beat or shoot anyone else. This evidence corroborates Julie's testimony. Given the weight of the evidence only people who live in denial believe he is innocent and you are a perfect case in point for living in denial because no matter what the issue your take is not grounded in reality.  You ignore all the real evidence such as the evidence that Sheila can't have killed herself and stress evidence that doesn't actually exist such as your debunked claim that June had scratches on her arm made by Sheila's nails.

Sheila was shot by the murder weapon with the moderator attached while seated propped up against something. After she was dead the killer:

1) removed the moderator and put it in the downstairs closet
2) dragged her body flat and then placed the murder weapon on op of her to try to make it appear she shot herself
3) placed the Bible in a pool of blood that formed after her death.

It's impossible for her to have shot herself with the moderator attached and a dead person doing any of these things is even more impossible if there is such a thing as degrees of impossibility.

You keep pecking at inconsequential things instead of dealing with the main evidence.  This is what you need to refute in order to establish Jeremy's innocence which would have the natural result of convincing  others of his innocence or at least that there is insufficient evidence of his guilt.   

[Steve_uk]

If you want to go in that direction the Bible was clearly planted after Sheila was murdered. It was opened and closed while it had blood on it and was placed in a pool of blood that formed after Sheila's death.

Rational people look at evidence that actually has the ability to say whether someone committed a crime or not.  That means the most important evidence is that evidence which would exist if Sheila had in fact killed anyone else and evidence of whether she could have killed herself.  That objective evidence proves she can't have killed herself and didn't beat or shoot anyone else. This evidence corroborates Julie's testimony. Given the weight of the evidence only people who live in denial believe he is innocent and you are a perfect case in point for living in denial because no matter what the issue your take is not grounded in reality.  You ignore all the real evidence such as the evidence that Sheila can't have killed herself and stress evidence that doesn't actually exist such as your debunked claim that June had scratches on her arm made by Sheila's nails.

Sheila was shot by the murder weapon with the moderator attached while seated propped up against something. After she was dead the killer:

1) removed the moderator and put it in the downstairs closet
2) dragged her body flat and then placed the murder weapon on op of her to try to make it appear she shot herself
3) placed the Bible in a pool of blood that formed after her death.

It's impossible for her to have shot herself with the moderator attached and a dead person doing any of these things is even more impossible if there is such a thing as degrees of impossibility.

You keep pecking at inconsequential things instead of dealing with the main evidence.  This is what you need to refute in order to establish Jeremy's innocence which would have the natural result of convincing  others of his innocence or at least that there is insufficient evidence of his guilt.

Scipio I believe the thrust of your argument but why would Police deny that they moved the body when the official photographs prove her arm was moved,which might explain the fresh blood flow in the photograph which was concealed until 2004?

[scipio_usmc]

Scipio I believe the thrust of your argument but why would Police deny that they moved the body when the official photographs prove her arm was moved,which might explain the fresh blood flow in the photograph which was concealed until 2004?

Police don't deny that they moved her arm, they said they moved her arm after they already photographed her as she was found.  They deny he claim her body was moved to a different location in the room or house by the police. The claim moving her arm caused blood to flow is not credible the blood would have been dry by the time police moved her arm. The blood on the floor clearly pooled there as the blood ran down the side of her neck.

[Patti]

Police don't deny that they moved her arm, they said they moved her arm after they already photographed her as she was found.  They deny he claim her body was moved to a different location in the room or house by the police. The claim moving her arm caused blood to flow is not credible the blood would have been dry by the time police moved her arm. The blood on the floor clearly pooled there as the blood ran down the side of her neck.

Hi Scip

Can you explain why the blood from her mouth appears dry and cracked whilst the blood from her wounds appear not to be? 

[scipio_usmc]

Hi Scip

Can you explain why the blood from her mouth appears dry and cracked whilst the blood from her wounds appear not to be? 

All of the blood looks dry in all the photos I have seen. When her body was moved flat blood in her mouth area was disturbed and leaked down the sides of her face to her ears. If she had been lying down the blood would not have done that because blood doesn't flow against gravity. Lying down the blood would flow to the back of her mouth not the front out her lips, she was seated and the blood was able to come out of her mouth before she was moved flat and then the blood already out leaked down the sides as opposed to down her chin as it would if her body remained seated.   

[Steve_uk]

All of the blood looks dry in all the photos I have seen. When her body was moved flat blood in her mouth area was disturbed and leaked down the sides of her face to her ears. If she had been lying down the blood would not have done that because blood doesn't flow against gravity. Lying down the blood would flow to the back of her mouth not the front out her lips, she was seated and the blood was able to come out of her mouth before she was moved flat and then the blood already out leaked down the sides as opposed to down her chin as it would if her body remained seated.

But I thought you argued that Jeremy pulled her legs to check if she were dead,or at least that's what I had assumed..

[scipio_usmc]

But I thought you argued that Jeremy pulled her legs to check if she were dead,or at least that's what I had assumed..

Jeremy dragged her flat because he wanted to place the gun on her body and with her seated he could only lay it across her legs. He needed her flat in order to pay it across her body. WHile she was seated blood flowed out of her lips. After being dragged flat the blood on her lips leaked down the sides of her face.

In hindsight he should have removed the moderator before shooting her and should have made her lie flat on her back and shot her while she was already lying down.

Removing the moderator after death is something she could not do so establishes someone else was there

Moving her body after death raises the same red flag.

You need to try planning things so that you don't need to move anything because experts can often figure it out when you change things after.

He failed to plan these minute details so was sunk.  Sometimes things happen that screw up your planning.  For instance if Sheila moved as he was shooting her it could screw up what he was planning to do. So aside from just poor planning a problem can be the victims doing things that prevent a plan from being carried out to the letter.  So no matter how skilled you are there is always a risk.

[Patti]

Jeremy dragged her flat because he wanted to place the gun on her body and with her seated he could only lay it across her legs. He needed her flat in order to pay it across her body. WHile she was seated blood flowed out of her lips. After being dragged flat the blood on her lips leaked down the sides of her face.

In hindsight he should have removed the moderator before shooting her and should have made her lie flat on her back and shot her while she was already lying down.

Removing the moderator after death is something she could not do so establishes someone else was there

Moving her body after death raises the same red flag.

You need to try planning things so that you don't need to move anything because experts can often figure it out when you change things after.

He failed to plan these minute details so was sunk.  Sometimes things happen that screw up your planning.  For instance if Sheila moved as he was shooting her it could screw up what he was planning to do. So aside from just poor planning a problem can be the victims doing things that prevent a plan from being carried out to the letter.  So no matter how skilled you are there is always a risk.

Scip I am surprised that you may think Sheila was seated. Any idea of where she might have been seated?

I don't think she was in a sitting position, if she were blood would have flowed downwards onto the front of her nightdress and there is no blood flowing downwards.

Herbert M....says she could not have been standing up or seated...