13 bullet cases in m/bedroom, yet no follower plate mark found on them...

[scipio_usmc]

Reply #1 on: June 22, 2013, 09:50:PM »

Grey bricked part of the farmhouse, includes the downstairs rooms of the lounge, front door, and dining room, and the upstair rooms, including the main bedroom...

I would not say that WPS Jeapes reversed the colour coding of the farmhouse in the way you are suggesting, or for the purpose you are saying she did. At the end of the day, she arrived at the scene and was deployed around the farmhouse, she did not stay static without moving, she obviously changed her position from moment to moment. There were times when the kitchen window and the rear external farmhouse door (WHITE SIDE) were in her sight, and there were times when the main bedroom window, the front door, and the dining room window (RED SIDE) were in her vision. Your approach has her in the same position at all times, and you introduce the argument that she was confused and had made an error. But, you are WRONG, she changed her position, and what is more there would have been times when she was facing towards the farmhouse, and other occasions she would have her back turned away from the house. It is this very same basic principle which explains what she was referring too when she said that this officer, and that officer, were on her right at a part of her duties, and so and so, on her left - was because at one time or other she may have been facing towards the farmhouse, whilst on other occasions she will have had her back turned to the house, in keeping with her training...

All you are doing is what you always do- IGNORING the things that officers say and instead just pretending things are how you WANT then to be so you can push your agenda.

You ignore her clear statement the kitchen was the room the right of the door on purpose and pretend she was looking at the dining room so you can also pretend the window was the master bedroom but the window above the dining room was Sheila's bedroom not the master bedroom. EVERY window in the front of the house is surrounded by grey brick so there would have been no point in specifying the window on the gray portion. 

The only position she could be in where the people at white would be to her right would be if she were with her husband at the green containment location which was watching the the coal shed.  There was no green/white location but if one wants to call the white location 2 colors then it was green/white.  This was to the right of the green location AKA black/green.  It's impossible for her to have the green/white location to her right unless she was at black/green. 

All your games accomplish nothing. She said she spelled the men who were at the white containment site.  She described being at the corner of the shed at the white containment site.  She described the view that would exist from the white containment site.

You MADE UP that she walked around site to site to pretend she went to the front of the house so you can then pretend she was looking at the master bedroom window.  Her statement makes no such claim.  Nor does the statements of the men at the red/white location claim she came and was with them. Moule was an acting police Sgt and he was the one in charge at the red/white corner.  He didn't need Jeapes to come help him supervise the 2 men assigned to the red/white corner- Brown and Mildinhall.  Post where any of these 3 claim she was with them.  You can't because in her own statement she admits they were to her right which means she was to their left.  The white containment location was to their left.

It is crystal clear she reversed red and green and also mistook the kitchen door for the front of the house.  Because the truth doesn't support and of you fantasy conspiracies you ignore it and pretend she was somewhere else than she described.  You don't even remain consistent in the past you admitted she screwed up her colors but since that demolishes your antics now you are backtracking.

Your denials are not convincing in the least and thus accomplish nothing.  If she had been looking at the front of the house the entire thing was clad in grey- there would be 3 upper floor windows instead of 1 clad in grey so saying the window clad in grey would provide no value at all.  So even if we took your nonsense at face value it still would not establish the window she was looking in was the master bedroom because if she were in front of the house:

"I saw that the front door of the farm was shut and that a light was on in the room to the right of this, which I understood was the kitchen. I could also see a window on the first floor of the white/red ride where the building is clad in grey brick in which was what appeared to be a rifle leaning against the window. There was no sign of movement in the house." 

The above would not establish which of the three 1st floor windows she was referring to since all are surrounded by grey brick.  Furthermore we would have to say she made a mistake and called the dining room the kitchen.  So your spin still fails to accomplish what you desire your spin would at best establish she could have been referring to 3 different windows.
   
But we know she was at the white containment location where there was only 1 upper floor window on the gray brick area hence why she used that description to identify it and that window was to the box room.


 

[scipio_usmc]

Jeremy reasoned that after Collins saw Sheila through the other kitchen window on WHITE SIDE, that Once police started to smash in the rear external door to the farm, that Sheila ran off upstairs and fled to the bedroom, but with hand on heart I see a problem with Jeremys (and his supporters) way of thinking, since, if Sheila fled upstairs just as the raid team were smashing open the rear external door, how could the same raid team, find (7.37am) find the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female found in kitchen upon entry? (7.38am) One dead male, one dead female, (7.41am) Can someone contact the police surgeon and Coroners officer, regarding two bodies, (7.45am) Can you attend the office, since police are attending an incident at whf, involving a murder, and a suicide, (8.10am) after a thorough search, a further three bodies found upstairs. You see if Jeremy and his supporters account is right, then how did the raid team find two bodies upon entering the main kitchen? One was the body of a dead male, and the other the dead body of a female, one was a murder (Ralph Bamber), the other was a suicide (guess who this refers too)?

All this amounts to is ignoring that Collins saw Neivll's body, ignoring that he thought Nevill was an elderly woman until they could inspect his body close up, ignoring the physical evidence establishing Sheila was murdered, ignoring the evidence establishing Sheila was murdered with the Anschutz int he bedroom, ignoring the evidence that both shots were fired into Sheila seconds apart and making up a load of impossible nonsense.

[mike tesko]

All this amounts to is ignoring that Collins saw Neivll's body, ignoring that he thought Nevill was an elderly woman until they could inspect his body close up, ignoring the physical evidence establishing Sheila was murdered, ignoring the evidence establishing Sheila was murdered with the Anschutz int he bedroom, ignoring the evidence that both shots were fired into Sheila seconds apart and making up a load of impossible nonsense.

I would have no reason to do what you are suggesting which amounts to bullshit. Jeapes was in a position to cover WHITE / RED sides at the same time, this can only mean to anybody with something that represents a brain, that she was at the corner of WHITE / RED. If she was at the corner of WHITE / RED, she could see the main bedroom window and the anshuzt rifle leaning against it, she could see the front door, and she could see the dining room window, all on the RED SIDE of the building. You haven't even got a clue what your on about, let alone what I'm on about...

Sheila was murdered in the bedroom, yes, but not by Jeremy...

The anshuzt rifle was resting or leaning against the main bedroom window for two solid hours, between 7.15am and 9.15am, so she did not kill herself by use of it, and nobody else killed her by use of it, and staged managed her body on the floor with that rifle on top of her body until 9.15am that same morning. If you can't work out who killed Sheila by that stage at that (9.15am) time, then I suppose I have given you too much credit for being cleverer than you really are. You have got to be a nut case, a lunatic, brain dead, or better / worse still, someone who loves police corruption...

If that's true then you are an evil bastard, just like the filth that framed Jeremy for the murder of Sheila that they themselves committed...

[mike tesko]

Essex police killed Sheila Caffell, not Jeremy Bamber, not no as yet unidentified killer. Jeremy got it right when upon being told by Saxby that all his family inside the farmhouse were dead, when he accused the police of shooting his family dead after they had gone towards the farmhouse. Essex police, like every other police force in the mid 1980's, were corrupted, it was well known in the criminal fraternity and criminal circles that pigs or the filth (as they were known by) were worse than the criminals they targeted, framed. helped to convict and get locked up, on many occasions for offences they had not committed. Until you have been a victim of these disgusting and unacceptable practices, you can't begin to imagine where the truth in anytghing lies...

[scipio_usmc]

I would have no reason to do what you are suggesting which amounts to bullshit. Jeapes was in a position to cover WHITE / RED sides at the same time, this can only mean to anybody with something that represents a brain, that she was at the corner of WHITE / RED. If she was at the corner of WHITE / RED, she could see the main bedroom window and the anshuzt rifle leaning against it, she could see the front door, and she could see the dining room window, all on the RED SIDE of the building. You haven't even got a clue what your on about, let alone what I'm on about...

Sheila was murdered in the bedroom, yes, but not by Jeremy...

The anshuzt rifle was resting or leaning against the main bedroom window for two soli hours, between 7.15am and 9.15am, so she did not kill herself by use of it, and nobody else killed her by use of it, and staged managed her body on the floor with that rifle on top of her body until 9.15am that same morning. If you can't work out who killed Sheila by that stage at that (9.15am) time, then I suppose I have given you too much credit for being cleverer than you really are. You have got to be a nutcase, a lunatic, brain dead, or better / worse swtill, someone who loves police corruption...

If that's true then you are an evil bastard, just like the filth that framed Jeremy for the murder of Sheila that they themselves committed...

Fact: Upon the second firearms team deploying Collins and others at the white containment position were relieved by Sgt Jeapes, Webb and Rozga.  This containment position featured a brick wall next to a shed.  This containment position faced the side of the house that had the kitchen door.

Fact: The position to the right of the white containment position was the red/white corner.  This position featured a hedge row behind the officers.  They faced the front of the house.  Upon the arrival of the second batch of officers Sgt Moule, Mildinhall and Brown were assigned to this location.

Fact: All 3 upper floor windows were surrounded by gray brick but only one upper floor window on the kitchen side of the house was surrounded by gray brick so on the kitchen side such a description would isolate a single window whereas on the front side the description is worthless because it describes all the windows.

Fact: Sgt Jeapes said her position was by a corner of a shed

Fact: Sgt Jeapes said she relieved the men who had been at the white containment location

Fact: Sgt Jeapes said Moule was to her right.

Fact: Sgt Jeapes said the window she saw something in was the upper floor window surrounded by grey brick.

Fact: Sgt. Jeapes said the door was the kitchen door and the window to the left was the kitchen window

Fact: there was no green/white corner containment location

Fact: The only position that could be characterized as a green/white containment location was the white containment location.

Fact: If Moule had been at this location and she was to the left of Moule that would mean she had to be at the green/black containment location but that faced the coal shed

The evidence conclusively establishes Sgt Jeapes was at the white containment location and that she screwed up by calling it the red/white containment location and also that she screwed up by thinking the kitchen door was the front door.

All your antics accomplish nothing.

[mike tesko]

All you are doing is what you always do- IGNORING the things that officers say and instead just pretending things are how you WANT then to be so you can push your agenda.

Listen birdbrain, don't try to tell me how to think or what to say, because you don't even know what your saying all by yourself without any help from me. The officer in question, and I shall spell it out so that you know who I am referring to when I am speaking about her, W  P  C,   J  U  l  i  a   J  e  a  p  e  s, clearly refers to covering WHITE / RED side, and in order for her to be covering both of these / those sides at the same time, she would need to be in the general area of the corner of the building (White / Red)...

[mike tesko]

Fact: Upon the second firearms team deploying Collins and others at the white containment position were relieved by Sgt Jeapes, Webb and Rozga.  This containment position featured a brick wall next to a shed.  This containment position faced the side of the house that had the kitchen door.

She doesn't say this word for word as you try to describe it...

[mike tesko]

Fact: The position to the right of the white containment position was the red/white corner.  This position featured a hedge row behind the officers.  They faced the front of the house.  Upon the arrival of the second batch of officers Sgt Moule, Mildinhall and Brown were assigned to this location.

She doesn't say this word for word, it's you saying what your saying, not her...

[mike tesko]

Fact: All 3 upper floor windows were surrounded by gray brick but only one upper floor window on the kitchen side of the house was surrounded by gray brick so on the kitchen side such a description would isolate a single window whereas on the front side the description is worthless because it describes all the windows.

Your words, not hers...

[scipio_usmc]

"Fact: The position to the right of the white containment position was the red/white corner.  This position featured a hedge row behind the officers.  They faced the front of the house.  Upon the arrival of the second batch of officers Sgt Moule, Mildinhall and Brown were assigned to this location."

She doesn't say this word for word as you try to describe it...

Her exact words:

"I was then deployed to a containment position which was located on the corner of a barn facing the farm house, with a view to the right hand side of the premises.  In firearms terminology I was covering White/Red. I in fact took over from PC Alexander-Smart, PA 172 Collins and PC 627 Delgado and was aware that A/Ps 1596 Moule was about 12 yards behind me to my right and covering the white/green side of the premises, that is the left hand side of the farm, facing the barn."

She took over for people who were at the white containment site.  What barn is at the red/white containment site?  There is none the corner of the barn she is referring to is the one at the white containment site.  She incorrectly claim Moule was at the green/white containment site he was at the red/white containment site. She said Moule was at the site to her right so she was to his left. To the left of the red/white corner containment site was the white containment site so she was at the white containment site.

If she had been at the red/white containment site that means Moule would have to have been at the red/black containment site but he wasn't.  She said there was a barn in between her site and Moule's What barn is on the front of the house dividing the red/white containment site and the black/red containment site?

Number 2 is the red/white containment site and 3 is the black/red containment site.  What barn is there dividing these positions?



Your claims totally fall apart under scrutiny.

[mike tesko]

Fact: Sgt Jeapes said her position was by a corner of a shed

From the corner of the shed she could not possibly have been covering both WHITE / RED sides of the farmhouse...

[scipio_usmc]

"Fact: The position to the right of the white containment position was the red/white corner.  This position featured a hedge row behind the officers.  They faced the front of the house.  Upon the arrival of the second batch of officers Sgt Moule, Mildinhall and Brown were assigned to this location."

She doesn't say this word for word, it's you saying what your saying, not her...

Indeed I am the one saying who was actually assigned to the red/white location because she INCORRECTLY claimed that is where she was.  To rebut it I posted the fact that Moule, Mildinhall and Brown were there.  Moreover the people she claimed she replaced were at the white containment site.  location. What this proves is that she messed up the colors because her claims are wrong.

She said she was at the corner of a barn. There was no barn at the red/corner containment site the site had a hedgerow behind it.  The barn was to the left of the red/white corner and didn't border it because the hedge was in the way.  By saying she was to the right of this barn and Moule was to the left of it that tells you she was at the white containment site while he was at the red/white containment site.

   

[mike tesko]

Fact: Sgt Jeapes said she relieved the men who had been at the white containment location

In firearm terms she was covering WHITE / RED, now how can relieving men on the WHITE side of the farm house, result in her covering WHITE / RED sides of the farmhouse? Plus the raid team approached the rear door on WHITE side of the building, from the direction of RED side of the same building, albeit by following the curved wall previously depicted in posted diagrams...

[mike tesko]

Fact: Sgt Jeapes said Moule was to her right.

Which way was she facing when she says that Moule was to her right?

Was she facing towards the farmhouse, was she facing with her back to the farmhouse, or sideways?

[scipio_usmc]

"Fact: All 3 upper floor windows were surrounded by gray brick but only one upper floor window on the kitchen side of the house was surrounded by gray brick so on the kitchen side such a description would isolate a single window whereas on the front side the description is worthless because it describes all the windows."

Your words, not hers...

Her exact words:

"I saw that the front door of the farm was shut and that a light was on in the room to the right of this, which I understood was the kitchen. I could also see a window on the first floor of the white/red side where the building is clad in grey brick in which was what appeared to be a rifle leaning against the window. There was no sign of movement in the house." 

The entire front side is clad in gray brick, all 3 upper floor windows are clad in gray brick so it is worthless to specify the window with gray brick. There was no point to mention that at all.  In the meantime you also ignore that she stated the door she was looking at was next to the kitchen window.